Impeachment

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:46 pm

Party over country. Their job over party.

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 5072
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by ShelC » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:05 am

Sorry, I just don't see anything happening where he leaves office.

User avatar
jonh
Posts: 815
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:34 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by jonh » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:51 am

Yeah, I don't have any confidence in republicans doing the right thing here, which really sounds so crazy, given how concrete the evidence is.
“I’m done with not making the playoffs. I’m serious. This is probably the last year I’m ever not making the playoffs.” Devin Booker-- April, 2017

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 10218
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:27 am

ShelC wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:05 am
Sorry, I just don't see anything happening where he leaves office.
I agree that it's very unlikely that the Senate GOP votes to remove him. But the House hearing and Senate trial are not a waste of time. They get evidence and testimony out into the public, including lots of stuff that will be incredibly damning to the President. They get lots of prominent people on national television talking about the President committing horrible crimes and being a crook. It can and will shape public opinion. It will hurt him in the 2020 election, and it will hurt GOP senators and house members running for election down the ballot.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:07 am

The Republicans are swayed by public opinion. They will try to make sure public opinion stays on their side. Their plan I believe would be to let the Dems have their impeachment vote in the House and to time it where the Senate does their investigation and vote that determines that Trump is innocent of all charges right before the election.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 15645
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:35 pm

That'll be too late. The damage is already done. Trump has been shown to be corrupt.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:11 pm

Trump has been shown to be corrupt to everyone who isn’t a Magabilly. You will never convince a Magabilly that Trump is any other than the second coming of Jesus.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 15645
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:47 pm

I don't believe there are enough Magabillies alone to win him the election. If there are, then the country is screwed all around.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 10218
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:29 am

Impeachment hearings going on today. Several current and former Trump staffers are obstructing justice and refusing to sit for testimony, in violation of the law (but who cares about that any more?):

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/0 ... ent-065318

The folks who *are* sitting to testify are detailing more damning stuff about the Trump team trying to smear and discredit anyone who dares to cross them or obey the law:

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/0 ... ony-000315

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:40 pm

The GOP has given up on saying there was no quid pro quo since there is overwhelming evidence. Their new defense is that it’s not illegal so no big deal.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 9066
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:08 am

Nodack wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:40 pm
The GOP has given up on saying there was no quid pro quo since there is overwhelming evidence. Their new defense is that it’s not illegal so no big deal.
Next line of logic will be, even if it is illegal, it never happened (aid was eventually delivered without public statement). Then it will be, you can't impeach a sitting president...

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:03 pm

Aid was delivered AFTER the scandal broke.

A good article on the timeline.
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/12/76893525 ... a-timeline

Aug. 12: The inspector general for the intelligence community, Michael Atkinson, receives the anonymous whistleblower complaint now at the center of the impeachment inquiry. It alleges "the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election."

Aug. 22: Taylor is told by a high-ranking National Security Council official that the "President doesn't want to provide any assistance at all," according to his written testimony.

Aug. 28: Politico reports that U.S. military aid to Ukraine is being held up. Yermak sends a text to Volker the next day linking to the article and says, "Need to talk with you." Yermak also tells Taylor he is concerned.

Sept. 1: Pence, who is traveling in Poland in place of Trump, meets with Zelenskiy in Warsaw and security assistance does come up. Pence says he will speak to Trump about it, according to a readout recalled by Taylor in his testimony.

Taylor, in his written testimony, says he is later told that Sondland met with Yermak in Warsaw and told the Ukrainian official that "the security assistance money would not come until President Zelenskyy committed to pursue the Burisma investigation."

Taylor, alarmed to hear this, texts Sondland asking a pointed question. "Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?" Sondland replies, "Call me."

On that call, Taylor writes in his testimony, "Ambassador Sondland told me that President Trump had told him that he wants President Zelenskyy to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. election." He adds that Sondland told him "everything" was contingent on "such an announcement, including security assistance" and that Trump wanted to put Zelenskiy "in a public box."

Sept. 8: Per Taylor's testimony, he and Sondland speak on the phone. Sondland tells him that he informed Zelenskiy and Yermak that "although this was not a quid pro quo, if President Zelenskyy did not 'clear things up' in public, we would be at a 'stalemate.' " Taylor says he understood a stalemate to mean Ukraine wouldn't get the security assistance. Sondland told him the conversation ended with President Zelenskiy agreeing to make a public statement in a CNN interview. (That interview never occurred.)

Taylor continues that on that call with Sondland:

"Ambassador Sondland tried to explain to me that President Trump is a businessman. When a businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes him something, he said, the businessman asks that person to pay up before signing the check."
Taylor says he argued that the explanation made no sense and that "holding up security assistance for domestic political gain was 'crazy'."

Sept. 9: On the day that the congressional intelligence committees are formally notified of the existence of the whistleblower complaint, Ambassador Taylor in a text with Sondland says, "As I said on the phone, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign."

Sondland responds five hours later by saying, "The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo's of any kind" adding "I suggest we stop the back and forth by text." The Wall Street Journal reports that Sondland spoke with Trump before sending this response.

Sept. 11: Under pressure from lawmakers, the White House releases the funding for Ukraine without any explanation of what changed.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 10218
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:08 am

We're basically to the point where Trump and his people have to threaten and slander everyone who speaks out against them. Currently they are threatening to publicly reveal the identity of the whistleblower and are attacking anybody who testifies, calling them "Never-Trumpers" and putting them in danger.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... st-refuge/

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:28 am

Shooting the messengers is a strategy I guess.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 15645
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:35 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:08 am
We're basically to the point where Trump and his people have to threaten and slander everyone who speaks out against them. Currently they are threatening to publicly reveal the identity of the whistleblower and are attacking anybody who testifies, calling them "Never-Trumpers" and putting them in danger.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... st-refuge/
Dictator behavior 101.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 10218
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:24 pm

This stuff they're doing is illegal, it's un-American, and it's wrong. We have laws to protect whistleblowers, but we have POTUS, Rand Paul, and conservative media threatening to expose them and put them in danger in violation of those laws. Many of these same people applauded whistleblowers who came forward during the Obama years. This also leads to witness intimidation, where other people won't want to come forward because it isn't worth threatening your career, your safety, and your family.

I just don't understand how millions of people are okay with this and defend it. I worry about the division in this country. Can't we call something out that is clearly wrong?

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:17 pm

Winning is everything.

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 6084
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Cap » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:00 am

I have despaired of the hope that there are still reasonable Republicans who can be persuaded to switch sides if only presented with enough evidence of Trump’s awfulness. That ain’t happening.

He will not be removed from office.

He will probably win reelection.

If he loses, “Millions of illegals voted to steal the election and overthrow the government,” and that s*** might actually work.

Even if a Democratic President is installed, (s)he will not be able to govern. The GOP got rewarded for the Garland scandal, and will ramp it up to 100 next time. The next Democratic President won’t even get a cabinet. He won’t be allowed to appoint any judges. He will not get any signable legislation. And when we hit the debt ceiling...

Our system of government is broken. Impeachment won’t fix it, and neither will the next election.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:35 am

I think you are right about the last part. Our system IS broken and Trump staying or going won’t change that fact. We are F’ed as a country now. We hate each other more than any outside enemy. The media is broken. The government is broken. All the things we need to fix are not even being discussed.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 15645
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:33 pm

I hope you guys are wrong.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

Post Reply