Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
- The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
4-11 in their last 15.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
- specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
He went to check in with 7 minutes left. There was a timeout, then he was gone. He was in the locker room for the rest of the game. Not good.
Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
What was Montys plan tonight? I didn’t see a clear strategy. Didn’t play any weak side defense. There were 2 plays ran all game. Play 1 dribble around a shot ton or play 2 just keep passing violently around the court until the clock gets low. Excruciating.
Rubios shot has gotten absolutely flat. Never thought any of them were going to make it over the rim.
Baynes has been awful since coming back.
Ayton played better than I expected. I got real scared those first few minutes. He’s still soft and hates contact but he wasn’t why they lost. Still would have lost with Booker.
Frank missed another layup.
The Clippers announcers are incredibly obnoxious and don’t fully even pay attention to the game because their babbling on about some meaningless story about Doc Rivers Christmas shopping. It’s brutal.
Rubios shot has gotten absolutely flat. Never thought any of them were going to make it over the rim.
Baynes has been awful since coming back.
Ayton played better than I expected. I got real scared those first few minutes. He’s still soft and hates contact but he wasn’t why they lost. Still would have lost with Booker.
Frank missed another layup.
The Clippers announcers are incredibly obnoxious and don’t fully even pay attention to the game because their babbling on about some meaningless story about Doc Rivers Christmas shopping. It’s brutal.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Ah. A good old fashioned blowout. Better than those gut punching 1 point losses, anyway.
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- Drewsprocket
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Too many bricks. It could have been close had they hit open shots given up by Clippers and played weakside defense. Because shots weren’t falling, Suns passed on what the Clips gave them and either made bad passes or dribbled into a crowd.
Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
7 OREB for Ayton when Andre Drummond is leading the league at 4.6 - nice.
- Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
He was very active in that regard. I respect his effort tonight, and I'm hopeful that things will gel with the whole squad in time.
OTOH, he'll never be a guy who takes over a game and it'll always drive me crazy. I want him to be Amare so badly.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Yep, it's a shame he's got this big body but doesn't want use it to force contact and to force his will on other players. Instead, he moves away from contact and is rarely fouled. What happened to #BullySzn? I guess it's all talk. It's time we get used to the fact that he's going to be a finesse player that avoids contact in spite of his physical presence.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:59 amHe was very active in that regard. I respect his effort tonight, and I'm hopeful that things will gel with the whole squad in time.
OTOH, he'll never be a guy who takes over a game and it'll always drive me crazy. I want him to be Amare so badly.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
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- Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Ergo, I'd rather trade him before giving him a max contract.Superbone wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:07 amYep, it's a shame he's got this big body but doesn't want use it to force contact and to force his will on other players. Instead, he moves away from contact and is rarely fouled. What happened to #BullySzn? I guess it's all talk. It's time we get used to the fact that he's going to be a finesse player that avoids contact in spite of his physical presence.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:59 amHe was very active in that regard. I respect his effort tonight, and I'm hopeful that things will gel with the whole squad in time.
OTOH, he'll never be a guy who takes over a game and it'll always drive me crazy. I want him to be Amare so badly.
We've seen what a guy like Baynes can do at the position, so I think it's wiser to spread the money out across 2-3 players.
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- virtual9mm
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Let's give him time and see what he does. 2nd game of his year 2 season. If he played 36 minutes and put up 30-15-2 blocks, it looks different than effectively 20-10 in 24. These are Prime Shaq numbers.
What remains in question for me is whether he is more Amare or Bosh.
What remains in question for me is whether he is more Amare or Bosh.
Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
I thought Ayton played pretty well overall. 18 and 12 is good for his first game back. Rubio's shooting was dreadful, and Baynes didn't give us much. Watching the game it felt like our team reacts really poorly to strong defense. Our shots stop falling and our offense loses all flow. We were particularly dreadful from 3. I don't mind losing to the Clips who are among the league's best, but we can put up a better effort than this.
Here's the box score: https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161048
Here's the box score: https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161048
Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Remember early in the season where we spent the first quarter being overly aggressive with teams, dealing with the early whistles, then continuing to play tough defense the rest of the game and the calls slowing down (along with our opponents point totals)? That was a fun 10 game stretch.
I didn't see this game as I am not feeling well and couldn't stay up until 1am for it. But it sounds like I shouldn't even bother watching the replay.
I didn't see this game as I am not feeling well and couldn't stay up until 1am for it. But it sounds like I shouldn't even bother watching the replay.
Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
There were some concerning things about this game, but a few encouraging things too.
I'm tired of making excuses for this team. Will they ever be 100% healthy? Why are the Suns so fragile that they can't overcome any type of injury or suspension to any of their main players? Is Baynes ever going to be healthy again? Why don't they just sit him until he's 100%, since he clearly isn't really helping at this rate? Ayton looked lost on defense with Oubre, but that's to be expected. It was nice to see the Suns rebounding better though, which is what Ayton did bring positively. I still wish he would take it to the defender, but settles for midrange jumpers and turnaround jumpers to avoid the defense. We are still missing wide open layups, which is frustrating as hell. Oubre can't f'n pass, yet they tried to use him like Booker's replacement as a second ball handler. These turnovers killed the Suns. Also, how many times did we see Zubac beat Ayton down the floor for a transition dunk? I know one time it was because he hurt his ankle, but it happened at least a couple other times too. Our outside shooting was atrocious last night, and that might have a little to do with Rubio and Baynes throwing up chunkers, Carter thinking he's a volume shooter all of a sudden with the greenest of lights, and Booker and Cam being out. Still got 30 assists, so there's that...
I'm tired of making excuses for this team. Will they ever be 100% healthy? Why are the Suns so fragile that they can't overcome any type of injury or suspension to any of their main players? Is Baynes ever going to be healthy again? Why don't they just sit him until he's 100%, since he clearly isn't really helping at this rate? Ayton looked lost on defense with Oubre, but that's to be expected. It was nice to see the Suns rebounding better though, which is what Ayton did bring positively. I still wish he would take it to the defender, but settles for midrange jumpers and turnaround jumpers to avoid the defense. We are still missing wide open layups, which is frustrating as hell. Oubre can't f'n pass, yet they tried to use him like Booker's replacement as a second ball handler. These turnovers killed the Suns. Also, how many times did we see Zubac beat Ayton down the floor for a transition dunk? I know one time it was because he hurt his ankle, but it happened at least a couple other times too. Our outside shooting was atrocious last night, and that might have a little to do with Rubio and Baynes throwing up chunkers, Carter thinking he's a volume shooter all of a sudden with the greenest of lights, and Booker and Cam being out. Still got 30 assists, so there's that...
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
This would be the only reason to bring in Amare at this point. Maybe he could mentor Ayton on aggression. That or lock Ayton in a room for 10 hours and play a never ending loop of Amare dunking on people with authority.Superbone wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:07 amYep, it's a shame he's got this big body but doesn't want use it to force contact and to force his will on other players. Instead, he moves away from contact and is rarely fouled. What happened to #BullySzn? I guess it's all talk. It's time we get used to the fact that he's going to be a finesse player that avoids contact in spite of his physical presence.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:59 amHe was very active in that regard. I respect his effort tonight, and I'm hopeful that things will gel with the whole squad in time.
OTOH, he'll never be a guy who takes over a game and it'll always drive me crazy. I want him to be Amare so badly.
Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Watched thru most of the 2nd qtr then went to bed. Could tell we didn't have it last night but will watch the replay today.
First thought on Ayton was that he looks like he's in shape. He was gliding/floating around with ease early on, much quicker than last year it seemed. I liked the midrange shots he was taking and I love the baseline fade. I know we want dunks and inside play, but give me an automatic baseline jumper ala Ewing/Hakeem and a reliable 16ft jumper like Duncan and the dunks will come. From what I saw tho, Ayton is Ayton. He's floating out of the paint on defense and watching the action instead of crashing and battling the other bigs for rebounds.
Offensively, it'll take a few games to get the spacing right with him in the low post/midrange area. Less room and lanes for cutters while he's in the middle as opposed to Baynes/Frank at the 3pt line. He and Rubio didn't have much chemistry either so they'll need to work on that. I did like the aggressiveness running block to block and calling for the ball, also liked the passing out of the low and high post.
Monty had some interesting lineups last night which reminded me a bit of the preseason. Think he was just in a jam with Book and Cam out on the 2nd night of a B2B. He was looking for a spark and some fresh legs. I like that he's giving the young guards some minutes. It'l hurt now, but could pay off later.
I didn't think we were playing poorly early on, the Clips were just hitting everything and it felt like one of those nights for us. I liked Oubre and Bridges battling Kawhi and PG early on tho. Oubre especially seemed to be taking it personal matching up with those guys.
First thought on Ayton was that he looks like he's in shape. He was gliding/floating around with ease early on, much quicker than last year it seemed. I liked the midrange shots he was taking and I love the baseline fade. I know we want dunks and inside play, but give me an automatic baseline jumper ala Ewing/Hakeem and a reliable 16ft jumper like Duncan and the dunks will come. From what I saw tho, Ayton is Ayton. He's floating out of the paint on defense and watching the action instead of crashing and battling the other bigs for rebounds.
Offensively, it'll take a few games to get the spacing right with him in the low post/midrange area. Less room and lanes for cutters while he's in the middle as opposed to Baynes/Frank at the 3pt line. He and Rubio didn't have much chemistry either so they'll need to work on that. I did like the aggressiveness running block to block and calling for the ball, also liked the passing out of the low and high post.
Monty had some interesting lineups last night which reminded me a bit of the preseason. Think he was just in a jam with Book and Cam out on the 2nd night of a B2B. He was looking for a spark and some fresh legs. I like that he's giving the young guards some minutes. It'l hurt now, but could pay off later.
I didn't think we were playing poorly early on, the Clips were just hitting everything and it felt like one of those nights for us. I liked Oubre and Bridges battling Kawhi and PG early on tho. Oubre especially seemed to be taking it personal matching up with those guys.
Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
The Cards’ first season here they started 7-4 and I thought they might be good. It would be ten years before they’d finish a season at .500+. And another ten years after that.
- The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
People act like Stoudemire was a finished product from day one, and he wasn't. It was year 3 before Amar'e reached his potential.
At the same stage Ayton already has a better shooting touch and is a much better rebounder. And he'll also most likely be a much better defender (have we all forgotten how weak Stoudemire's defense was?)
At the same stage Ayton already has a better shooting touch and is a much better rebounder. And he'll also most likely be a much better defender (have we all forgotten how weak Stoudemire's defense was?)
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Amare’s FTr as a rookie: .583
Ayton’s: .217
Ayton’s numbers otherwise compare well to Amare’s, but that one stands out.
Ayton’s: .217
Ayton’s numbers otherwise compare well to Amare’s, but that one stands out.
- The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Yeah, they're different players.
But Ayton has huge advantages in rebounding and eFG%.
People just need to exercise a little patience and not compare a 21-year-old with another player in the prime of his career.
But Ayton has huge advantages in rebounding and eFG%.
People just need to exercise a little patience and not compare a 21-year-old with another player in the prime of his career.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Game Day: Suns (11-15) @ Clippers (20-8), Tues 12/17/19
Ayton will never be Amar'e just as Amar'e never averaged 10rpg in a season. They're different. Amar'e was a run-jump athlete who excelled in PnR. Ayton's a true low-post center.