Game Day: Knicks (10-24) @ Suns (13-21), Fri 1/3/20

[carey]

Just watched the replay of the game. I thought Ayton was very average tonight. He had 15 points but 4 of those were in the last minute as he was intentionally fouled with 1 minute left and the Suns ahead. His shot looked flat even though he has a soft touch around the basket. He often settled for fadeaway 15-footers, which when you are that big and skilled is just dumb. I don't want to be overly critical of the guy because I desperately want him to be good. He just isn't anything special right now. If you read any of his post game quotes you'll come away thinking he's kind of a clown.

Our bench scoring was pathetic. If you look at the minutes distribution tonight it's Monty saying he's going to be playing his best 8 players as many minutes as possible. Saric barely played. Diallo was only in there because of Baynes' foul trouble. I'll be paying close attention to the rotations and substitutions the next few games.

We lose this game handily if Booker and Oubre don't go off.

Miiller should have some sense knocked into him for only playing Mitchell Robinson 20 minutes. He's impressive and plays with the kind of motor and energy I want Ayton to have.

[Mori Chu]

Booker and Oubre carried us again. They both have been playing inspired ball lately. I was pretty happy with all of our starters. I want to see more from Ayton, but I will give him some slack since he is coming back from injury.

The Ayton-Baynes lineup sort of worked. It helped in the sense of just playing our 5 best guys. I do worry about the negative effects of marginalizing Saric and our other PFs. Our bench had just 9 points tonight.

Glad to have won 3 of 4, but I also don't think the Knicks should give us this much trouble. We can do better.

[AmareIsGod]

People are acting like we have a far superior team to the Knicks and forget they came in here on a 3 game winning streak.

[3rdside]

People are acting like we have a far superior team to the Knicks and forget they came in here on a 3 game winning streak.

It was a good win from that point of view, not least as we had a new starting 5.

We should get better from here.

[Cap]

This is the most free throws for in Ayton game ever*





*

You ain’t far off. In his career to date, he has just just three games with more than six FTA.

[jonh]

Enjoyed watching the 2nd half of the game. I thought Ayton had a good game, but I agree that (1) he really hasn't been playing up to his potential and (2) I hate how he is conducting himself in the locker room, given what he has done this year. One crazy idea: because people kept making the David Robinson comparisons, I kept thinking last night how much Aytons game could be improved if he was sent to an 8 week boot camp over the summer, where they really break you down, and you have to learn discipline to get through it. I know its a ridiculous idea, but I just wish the kid would grow up a little bit--if he hasn't been humbled by what he just did, I could easily see him being a Dwight Howard personality that could break a team apart.

Outside of that, it was good to see Baynes play well, and I think that Oubre really has helped lighten some of Booker's load. Excited to see what the team looks like moving forward.

[Democritus]

Ayton is just a Popcorn Man. That is his character, he just wants to have fun, to smile, to enjoy life, the great weather in Phoenix etc...
He lost me when he said that his main goal is to earn his second contract...
You cannot win championships with that attitude..

[Wally_West]

Ayton has played 5 games this season.

In those 5 games, he has missed all together 30 games, had ankle injury, and is playing with teammates that spent the whole season thus far learning to play with out him. He is still learning how to play with his teammates and learning how to play within the offense.

It’s gonna take time. He is only 5 games into his 2nd year. How many clunkers has Oubre and booker had this season? And this is their 5th season. Ayton isn’t going to be perfect every night. He is allowed to be mediocre sometimes. I get criticisms but some of them are plain silly. Yawning before a game, eating popcorn after. Come on.

He’s going to average close to 20 & 12 by the end of the season. How many people in the league could get 20 & 12 at 21??? That shit don’t grow on trees. I have to check but I don’t think he has had a game where he didn’t grab at least 11 rebounds yet. People in this game thread acting like Ayton can’t rebound for shit but he is averaging 12.4. Can he box out better? Yes. Can better position himself for more rebounds? Yes. But once again he is 5 games into his 2nd season!

Ayton was always meant to be Robin to Booker’s Batman and that’s okay. Ayton will probably never carry a team to a championship but he can help Booker carry us to the playoffs and maybe one day to a championship. At the end of the day, the person holding this team back the most isn’t going to be Ayton. *cough* Sarver *cough*

[ShelC]

Baynes and Ayton starting together was rough but they only had a walk thru and not a full practice. Looked better in the 2nd half but need the spacing right if Baynes' 3s aren't falling.

Monty wanted a more physical presence given the Knicks size. Knicks are a tough matchup because of their 6 PFs, which made it tough for us to go small and try to outquick them. Bridges/Oubre/Cam just couldn't handle Randle/Morris/Portis in the post when matched up. Not sure why he didn't trust Dario more, who I thought could do well against Morris and Portis. Is Dario out completely? He hasn't been playing poorly but hasn't looked like the answer at PF either. I feel like he may be a better offensive player with the ball in his hands, rather than waiting for 3pt shots. Maybe he can be a go-to guy off the bench for the 2nd unit?

Also wondering if Monty is trying to keep Baynes in the starting lineup for a certain reason? I thought I remembered seeing something that he wasn't happy moving back to the bench? Are we trying to placate him? Are we trying to keep him happy so we have a shot at re-signing him in the summer? Can't imagine Ayton/Baynes is the long term solution.

Booker was in kill-mode last night. His offense was locked in, scoring in just about every way possible. I'm still not a fan of PointBook, but it's working better this year which I assume is because there's more talent around him. He needs to play like the 1st option tho and take over when the primary offense isn't working. And it's on Monty to recognize when it's not working and go with Book (or eventually Ayton).

Kelly was awesome last night and has had a great stretch of games lately. We're a different team when his offense is clicking.

Trying not to be too critical considering this is the first time we've been 100% all year, but I think the motion/passing offense needs to be cut back on a bit to get Ayton more simple post ups and get Book the ball in motion. Or it needs to be tweaked to focus on getting those guys the ball in their spots. Otherwise it just turns into a penetrate-and-kick offense and we settle for 3s. Also still don't love Ayton 25ft from the basket setting screens and DHOs. Need more action getting him good positioning on the block. His baseline turnaround is unguardable.

[jonh]

Also wondering if Monty is trying to keep Baynes in the starting lineup for a certain reason? I thought I remembered seeing something that he wasn't happy moving back to the bench? Are we trying to placate him? Are we trying to keep him happy so we have a shot at re-signing him in the summer? Can't imagine Ayton/Baynes is the long term solution.

Do you think left Baynes in the starting lineup to appease Ayton (allow him to be slotted as a PF). My guess is that this is a way to pander to Ayton.

n? And this is their 5th season. Ayton isn’t going to be perfect every night. He is allowed to be mediocre sometimes. I get criticisms but some of them are plain silly. Yawning before a game, eating popcorn after. Come on.

I don't appreciate your rational response to Ayton's behavior.

[The Bobster]

Total Rebounds per 36 minutes this year -

Andre Drummond, DET - 16.9
DeAndre Jordan, BRK - 16.9
Hassan Whiteside, POR - 16.7
DEANDRE AYTON, PHX - 15.2
Clint Capela, HOU - 15.2
Giannis Antetokounmpo, MIL - 15.1
Rudy Gobert, UTH - 14.7
Joel Embiid, PHI - 14.4
Jonas Valančiūnas, MEM - 14.0

[ShelC]

Also wondering if Monty is trying to keep Baynes in the starting lineup for a certain reason? I thought I remembered seeing something that he wasn't happy moving back to the bench? Are we trying to placate him? Are we trying to keep him happy so we have a shot at re-signing him in the summer? Can't imagine Ayton/Baynes is the long term solution.

Do you think left Baynes in the starting lineup to appease Ayton (allow him to be slotted as a PF). My guess is that this is a way to pander to Ayton.

I saw a quote after the game about Ayton saying he's wanted to play PF. I don't really care what he wants and I'm not trusting him to determine where he should play. He's a 5 and I believe Monty and Jones see him as one. Ayton probably just thinks he wants to play PF because that's the "cool" position.

The Ayton/Baynes starting frontcourt could've simply been Monty looking for more rebounding and physicality against a team with a deeper frontcourt. Won't know for a few games. We play the Grizz next who have a bigger frontcourt so maybe they start again. But if we're playing the Magic next week and they're starting Gordon at the 4 and Vuc at the 5, not sure I want Ayton guarding AG.

[LazarusLong]

Perhaps Monty is realizing that, although he wants the team to push the pace, move the ball, and make quick decisions, he has a number of players who are more comfortable in a deliberate style.

Baynes, Rubio and Oubre get it. Booker is getting on board (he may already be there), after playing on so many bad teams with no point guards of any consequence. Ayton has the physical skills, but is still trying to get in synch. Bridges gives defense and movement without the ball. Cam Johnson is learning on the fly. Of the reserve guards, Okobo is probably best at a faster pace (but the bar is set low).

Saric is erratic. He’s a smart player, but somewhat unathletic, and struggles with quicker, more physical players. Kaminsky is Pat Burke 2.0, a seven-footer with a good outside shot who gets pushed around in the paint and is a cypher on defense. Diallo has potential, but looks very tentative at times, like the game is moving too fast.

Carter has some defensive chops, but is seriously challenged offensively. Ty Johnson plays OK sometimes when he starts, but takes about a quarter to warm up when he comes off the bench. Jerome is another young player who has potential, but seems lost.

This is a transitional season. Barring a major trade, this is what the Suns are stuck with. Half these guys won’t be back next year. Any second half of the season success will depend somewhat on the development of Ayton, Bridges and Cam Johnson, and perhaps Jerome.

[In2ition]

Small sample size, but read the thread. At least it's encouraging.

[Split T]

Obviously a bit of a fluke with how few games he’s played, but still a good sign. Let’s hope it’s indicative of real progress defensively. If he can be a real defensive anchor, then any offense he provides is gravy.

[djy2j]

It’s gonna take time. He is only 5 games into his 2nd year. How many clunkers has Oubre and booker had this season? And this is their 5th season. Ayton isn’t going to be perfect every night. He is allowed to be mediocre sometimes. I get criticisms but some of them are plain silly. Yawning before a game, eating popcorn after. Come on.

I mean I get your point and I’m not trying to make it an argument but I called him on it and the Suns went out and were losing by 30 after a single quarter. So I don’t think it’s crazy to link that as a sign he’s not ready to play and the result. He also wasn’t the only one clearly not ready to play that night.

Ayton would be a good example for the side that argues kids should stay in school longer. He’s young, he’s goofy, and he doesn’t take life too seriously. That’s how most kids on a college team act and it’s normal. But when you get into the league you are expected to want to go out and prove yourself. DA is just going about it his own way and if he gets there he gets there.

[The Bobster]

It’s gonna take time. He is only 5 games into his 2nd year. How many clunkers has Oubre and booker had this season? And this is their 5th season. Ayton isn’t going to be perfect every night. He is allowed to be mediocre sometimes. I get criticisms but some of them are plain silly. Yawning before a game, eating popcorn after. Come on.

I mean I get your point and I’m not trying to make it an argument but I called him on it and the Suns went out and were losing by 30 after a single quarter. So I don’t think it’s crazy to link that as a sign he’s not ready to play and the result. He also wasn’t the only one clearly not ready to play that night.

Ayton would be a good example for the side that argues kids should stay in school longer. He’s young, he’s goofy, and he doesn’t take life too seriously. That’s how most kids on a college team act and it’s normal. But when you get into the league you are expected to want to go out and prove yourself. DA is just going about it his own way and if he gets there he gets there.

Sounds like Shaq should still be in school then.....

[Superbone]

Ayton has played 5 games this season.

In those 5 games, he has missed all together 30 games...

Wow, that's impressive how he was able to miss 30 games in only 5 games. Frankly, I didn't even know it was possible. Forget learning how to box out and be aggressive...

[Superbone]

Also wondering if Monty is trying to keep Baynes in the starting lineup for a certain reason? I thought I remembered seeing something that he wasn't happy moving back to the bench? Are we trying to placate him? Are we trying to keep him happy so we have a shot at re-signing him in the summer? Can't imagine Ayton/Baynes is the long term solution.

Do you think left Baynes in the starting lineup to appease Ayton (allow him to be slotted as a PF). My guess is that this is a way to pander to Ayton.

From what I read, it was James Jones idea to start Ayton at PF. He brought it to Monty and he agreed to give it a shot.

[Superbone]

Total Rebounds per 36 minutes this year -

Andre Drummond, DET - 16.9
DeAndre Jordan, BRK - 16.9
Hassan Whiteside, POR - 16.7
DEANDRE AYTON, PHX - 15.2
Clint Capela, HOU - 15.2
Giannis Antetokounmpo, MIL - 15.1
Rudy Gobert, UTH - 14.7
Joel Embiid, PHI - 14.4
Jonas Valančiūnas, MEM - 14.0

Seriously, if Ayton learned how to box out, he could approach 20 rebounds a night.