Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by specialsauce »

Split T wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:41 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:11 pm
Indy wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:17 pm
Ayton was constantly missing his rotations. over and over and over again. He was not boxing out. He was not sealing in the post where his teammates could get him the ball. Those are all things they talked about and he should be able to do. It is just effort. So they want to work him into the lineup. I don't get the issue.
You’re right you’re right, DA is the only player on the team missing rotations. Forgot about that. Everyone else including Booker is playing outstanding D. Too bad Frank is out, good for DA or he would really have a hard time earning minutes ahead of that defensive stud.

And again being our best rebounder by far is a joke! Lazy ass! Less rebounds more butt rubbing is what we want to see. Until then, he should sit.

What the hell is sealing the post anyway. There are a solid 2-3 seconds where DA has his man pinned on his back on every offensive possession where he isn’t asked to wander around halfcourt setting screens, and he only gets the ball 20% of the time on those.
I don’t really see what you think is so disrespectful. He’s getting his minutes. Your disrespect of Booker and Oubre is worse than any disrespect of Ayton.
Wasted minutes. Throwing him out there for 30 mpg versus incorporating your game plan around him and Book are two different things. They are putting it all on him to succeed and find his way but putting him in awful positions (setting screens at the 3 pt line, ignoring him in the post and not running set plays for him in the post) where he is guaranteed to fail.

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by specialsauce »

Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:53 pm
Sauce, do you have a kid? Do you let him do whatever he wants because he's special? :P
This doesn’t warrant a response.

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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Split T »

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:30 pm
Split T wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:41 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:11 pm
Indy wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:17 pm
Ayton was constantly missing his rotations. over and over and over again. He was not boxing out. He was not sealing in the post where his teammates could get him the ball. Those are all things they talked about and he should be able to do. It is just effort. So they want to work him into the lineup. I don't get the issue.
You’re right you’re right, DA is the only player on the team missing rotations. Forgot about that. Everyone else including Booker is playing outstanding D. Too bad Frank is out, good for DA or he would really have a hard time earning minutes ahead of that defensive stud.

And again being our best rebounder by far is a joke! Lazy ass! Less rebounds more butt rubbing is what we want to see. Until then, he should sit.

What the hell is sealing the post anyway. There are a solid 2-3 seconds where DA has his man pinned on his back on every offensive possession where he isn’t asked to wander around halfcourt setting screens, and he only gets the ball 20% of the time on those.
I don’t really see what you think is so disrespectful. He’s getting his minutes. Your disrespect of Booker and Oubre is worse than any disrespect of Ayton.
Wasted minutes. Throwing him out there for 30 mpg versus incorporating your game plan around him and Book are two different things. They are putting it all on him to succeed and find his way but putting him in awful positions (setting screens at the 3 pt line, ignoring him in the post and not running set plays for him in the post) where he is guaranteed to fail.
I don’t see what the problem with running a screen at the 3 pt line is. If that’s where the ball handler is, that’s where you run the screen. Ayton is more than capable of diving to the rim from the 3 pt line. And like I said last night, Ayton led the team in FGA, he’s not being ignored in the offense. I guess I just don’t understand what you are expecting. What does a game plan built around Book and Ayton look like to you?

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Shabazz
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Shabazz »

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:30 pm
Split T wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:41 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:11 pm
Indy wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:17 pm
Ayton was constantly missing his rotations. over and over and over again. He was not boxing out. He was not sealing in the post where his teammates could get him the ball. Those are all things they talked about and he should be able to do. It is just effort. So they want to work him into the lineup. I don't get the issue.
You’re right you’re right, DA is the only player on the team missing rotations. Forgot about that. Everyone else including Booker is playing outstanding D. Too bad Frank is out, good for DA or he would really have a hard time earning minutes ahead of that defensive stud.

And again being our best rebounder by far is a joke! Lazy ass! Less rebounds more butt rubbing is what we want to see. Until then, he should sit.

What the hell is sealing the post anyway. There are a solid 2-3 seconds where DA has his man pinned on his back on every offensive possession where he isn’t asked to wander around halfcourt setting screens, and he only gets the ball 20% of the time on those.
I don’t really see what you think is so disrespectful. He’s getting his minutes. Your disrespect of Booker and Oubre is worse than any disrespect of Ayton.
Wasted minutes. Throwing him out there for 30 mpg versus incorporating your game plan around him and Book are two different things. They are putting it all on him to succeed and find his way but putting him in awful positions (setting screens at the 3 pt line, ignoring him in the post and not running set plays for him in the post) where he is guaranteed to fail.
Running post-ups for Ayton right now is a pretty inefficient use of possessions. He's not a strong post player and he doesn't draw fouls.

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by INFORMER »

Shabazz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:28 pm
We gave up a lot for Jevon Carter, too.
Ha. I'm glad we at least got him back. Giving away Melton and a pick instead of just waiving Jackson is another brutal move. And Melton is playing well for Memphis. He has taken a nice step forward.
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by INFORMER »

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:30 pm
Throwing him out there for 30 mpg versus incorporating your game plan around him and Book are two different things.
He still got 16 shot attempts.
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Mori Chu »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:06 pm
Ha. I'm glad we at least got him back. Giving away Melton and a pick instead of just waiving Jackson is another brutal move. And Melton is playing well for Memphis. He has taken a nice step forward.
Yeah, I can't believe the moves James Jones made just to give away TJ Warren and Josh Jackson. There have been some benefits, but it's just dreadful asset management.

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by INFORMER »

It's not even an asset management team. Those moves looked like trades made by a team trying to make room to sign a superstar that they knew was coming OR by a contending team looking to avoid the luxury tax. I've never seen a rebuilding team give away talent and assets like that.
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by INFORMER »

Back to last night's game: Ayton's offense primarily came from dives and working the glass.

But he had one possession where he tried to take Amile Jefferson to the hoop. Jefferson denied him, Ayton got it back, and then was challenged by Bamba and missed his second attempt. Really discouraging sequence.
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Split T »

I don’t know why we didn’t just tell Rubio we only had 14/15 million. Would he have not signed at that point? Then we could have held Jackson and dumped him later into cap space if someone wanted him, or just waived him outright.

If it was really Rubio at 17 or he wouldn’t sign, then waiving and stretching Jackson made more sense. For some reason no one in our front office ever seemed to be fans of Melton...I wouldn’t be surprised if the deal was just Jackson and a 2nd for Korver and we wanted the Carter for Melton swap.

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Superbone »

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:31 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:53 pm
Sauce, do you have a kid? Do you let him do whatever he wants because he's special? :P
This doesn’t warrant a response.
Sorry. I didn’t mean to offend you. I just don’t think there’s any issue with making Ayton responsible for his play and not starting him until he starts doing what’s he’s supposed to do on the court.
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Shabazz »

Split T wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:25 pm
I don’t know why we didn’t just tell Rubio we only had 14/15 million. Would he have not signed at that point? Then we could have held Jackson and dumped him later into cap space if someone wanted him, or just waived him outright.

If it was really Rubio at 17 or he wouldn’t sign, then waiving and stretching Jackson made more sense. For some reason no one in our front office ever seemed to be fans of Melton...I wouldn’t be surprised if the deal was just Jackson and a 2nd for Korver and we wanted the Carter for Melton swap.
Anyone who watched both Melton and Carter play last season and came to the conclusion that Carter is better should not be working in basketball. Melton is 3 years younger and miles better on both sides of the ball. It's not close.

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Superbone »

Split T wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:46 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:30 pm
Split T wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:41 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:11 pm
Indy wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:17 pm
Ayton was constantly missing his rotations. over and over and over again. He was not boxing out. He was not sealing in the post where his teammates could get him the ball. Those are all things they talked about and he should be able to do. It is just effort. So they want to work him into the lineup. I don't get the issue.
You’re right you’re right, DA is the only player on the team missing rotations. Forgot about that. Everyone else including Booker is playing outstanding D. Too bad Frank is out, good for DA or he would really have a hard time earning minutes ahead of that defensive stud.

And again being our best rebounder by far is a joke! Lazy ass! Less rebounds more butt rubbing is what we want to see. Until then, he should sit.

What the hell is sealing the post anyway. There are a solid 2-3 seconds where DA has his man pinned on his back on every offensive possession where he isn’t asked to wander around halfcourt setting screens, and he only gets the ball 20% of the time on those.
I don’t really see what you think is so disrespectful. He’s getting his minutes. Your disrespect of Booker and Oubre is worse than any disrespect of Ayton.
Wasted minutes. Throwing him out there for 30 mpg versus incorporating your game plan around him and Book are two different things. They are putting it all on him to succeed and find his way but putting him in awful positions (setting screens at the 3 pt line, ignoring him in the post and not running set plays for him in the post) where he is guaranteed to fail.
I don’t see what the problem with running a screen at the 3 pt line is. If that’s where the ball handler is, that’s where you run the screen. Ayton is more than capable of diving to the rim from the 3 pt line. And like I said last night, Ayton led the team in FGA, he’s not being ignored in the offense. I guess I just don’t understand what you are expecting. What does a game plan built around Book and Ayton look like to you?
We see Baynes set that same screen all the time.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.

"Be Legendary."

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Shabazz »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:24 pm
Back to last night's game: Ayton's offense primarily came from dives and working the glass.

But he had one possession where he tried to take Amile Jefferson to the hoop. Jefferson denied him, Ayton got it back, and then was challenged by Bamba and missed his second attempt. Really discouraging sequence.
It's because he's soft.

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Superbone »

Shabazz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:46 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:30 pm
Split T wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:41 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:11 pm
Indy wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:17 pm
Ayton was constantly missing his rotations. over and over and over again. He was not boxing out. He was not sealing in the post where his teammates could get him the ball. Those are all things they talked about and he should be able to do. It is just effort. So they want to work him into the lineup. I don't get the issue.
You’re right you’re right, DA is the only player on the team missing rotations. Forgot about that. Everyone else including Booker is playing outstanding D. Too bad Frank is out, good for DA or he would really have a hard time earning minutes ahead of that defensive stud.

And again being our best rebounder by far is a joke! Lazy ass! Less rebounds more butt rubbing is what we want to see. Until then, he should sit.

What the hell is sealing the post anyway. There are a solid 2-3 seconds where DA has his man pinned on his back on every offensive possession where he isn’t asked to wander around halfcourt setting screens, and he only gets the ball 20% of the time on those.
I don’t really see what you think is so disrespectful. He’s getting his minutes. Your disrespect of Booker and Oubre is worse than any disrespect of Ayton.
Wasted minutes. Throwing him out there for 30 mpg versus incorporating your game plan around him and Book are two different things. They are putting it all on him to succeed and find his way but putting him in awful positions (setting screens at the 3 pt line, ignoring him in the post and not running set plays for him in the post) where he is guaranteed to fail.
Running post-ups for Ayton right now is a pretty inefficient use of possessions. He's not a strong post player and he doesn't draw fouls.
Yeah, I don’t think we need to see a steady stream of fall away jumpers from Ayton. I mean I guess if he made them all, I’d be OK with it. Maybe.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.

"Be Legendary."

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by INFORMER »

Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:31 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:46 pm
Running post-ups for Ayton right now is a pretty inefficient use of possessions. He's not a strong post player and he doesn't draw fouls.
Yeah, I don’t think we need to see a steady stream of fall away jumpers from Ayton. I mean I guess if he made them all, I’d be OK with it. Maybe.
I would really love for him to work on a quick hook shot. Either catch and release, or a one dribble and release.

Hakeem, please come and help the kid.
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by SunsRIt »

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:28 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:34 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:54 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:51 pm
djy2j wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:27 am


I agree with that thought process I just know whoever they bring in, Monty won’t know how to use him either
Sounds like a great plan you guys have got brewing. Thank god you have no power to pull it off. :lol:
Yeah, and you like every Suns player and coach ever and have never found fault in any of them, just want to stash them in case they ever blossom into a 15th man. We’d still be running out Archie, Dragan, TJ, Chriss, Bender, Mike James, Ray Spaulding, Alex Len, with L*****y H****r at coach ;)
Come on, man. Ayton has played 1 full season + what, 7 games? Give him a little time to see what we have. Nobody would stick around if you had your way. Certainly not Oubre!
I think you’re confused man. Im saying the Suns are doing Ayton a huge injustice. Treating him awfully, minimizing his strengths and this board has it out for him. If suns are going to minimize him, might as well trade him. I’m on Aytons side on this.
I totally agree Saucy. He should be in the starting line-up. Period. He will always get the Amare treatment(we both know why). Amare was a scoring machine, but everybody complained about his defense and rebounding. So far this season(7 games) Ayton is averaging 11.5 RPG(9th in the league), but that's still not enough. I'm not saying he won't improve, but he needs time. Give it to him.

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Superbone »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:37 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:31 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:46 pm
Running post-ups for Ayton right now is a pretty inefficient use of possessions. He's not a strong post player and he doesn't draw fouls.
Yeah, I don’t think we need to see a steady stream of fall away jumpers from Ayton. I mean I guess if he made them all, I’d be OK with it. Maybe.
I would really love for him to work on a quick hook shot. Either catch and release, or a one dribble and release.

Hakeem, please come and help the kid.
That would be nice. I think that’s a great idea. I know Hakeem has worked with centers in the offseason in the past.
Watching Vucevic last night, I was thinking that his offensive toolkit would work well for Ayton. He has that nice little hook shot.
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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Split T »

SunsRIt wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:38 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:28 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:34 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:54 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:51 pm


Sounds like a great plan you guys have got brewing. Thank god you have no power to pull it off. :lol:
Yeah, and you like every Suns player and coach ever and have never found fault in any of them, just want to stash them in case they ever blossom into a 15th man. We’d still be running out Archie, Dragan, TJ, Chriss, Bender, Mike James, Ray Spaulding, Alex Len, with L*****y H****r at coach ;)
Come on, man. Ayton has played 1 full season + what, 7 games? Give him a little time to see what we have. Nobody would stick around if you had your way. Certainly not Oubre!
I think you’re confused man. Im saying the Suns are doing Ayton a huge injustice. Treating him awfully, minimizing his strengths and this board has it out for him. If suns are going to minimize him, might as well trade him. I’m on Aytons side on this.
I totally agree Saucy. He should be in the starting line-up. Period. He will always get the Amare treatment(we both know why). Amare was a scoring machine, but everybody complained about his defense and rebounding. So far this season(7 games) Ayton is averaging 11.5 RPG(9th in the league), but that's still not enough. I'm not saying he won't improve, but he needs time. Give it to him.
No one complains about the number of rebounds he gets. We complain about the isolated instances where he stands and watches someone else grab the board. Or when he doesn’t use his size, power and athleticism offensively. He takes too many mid range shots when he could attack the basket.

Overall I’m pleased with Ayton this year. He’s been fine. His defense looks improved, but I’m not going to celebrate him getting 15/11...he can do that in his sleep. I expect more.

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Re: Game Day: Magic (18-20) @ Suns (14-23), Fri 1/10/20

Post by Superbone »

Split T wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:44 pm
SunsRIt wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:38 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:28 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:34 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:54 pm


Yeah, and you like every Suns player and coach ever and have never found fault in any of them, just want to stash them in case they ever blossom into a 15th man. We’d still be running out Archie, Dragan, TJ, Chriss, Bender, Mike James, Ray Spaulding, Alex Len, with L*****y H****r at coach ;)
Come on, man. Ayton has played 1 full season + what, 7 games? Give him a little time to see what we have. Nobody would stick around if you had your way. Certainly not Oubre!
I think you’re confused man. Im saying the Suns are doing Ayton a huge injustice. Treating him awfully, minimizing his strengths and this board has it out for him. If suns are going to minimize him, might as well trade him. I’m on Aytons side on this.
I totally agree Saucy. He should be in the starting line-up. Period. He will always get the Amare treatment(we both know why). Amare was a scoring machine, but everybody complained about his defense and rebounding. So far this season(7 games) Ayton is averaging 11.5 RPG(9th in the league), but that's still not enough. I'm not saying he won't improve, but he needs time. Give it to him.
No one complains about the number of rebounds he gets. We complain about the isolated instances where he stands and watches someone else grab the board. Or when he doesn’t use his size, power and athleticism offensively. He takes too many mid range shots when he could attack the basket.

Overall I’m pleased with Ayton this year. He’s been fine. His defense looks improved, but I’m not going to celebrate him getting 15/11...he can do that in his sleep. I expect more.
Exactly this. Exactly.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.

"Be Legendary."

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