Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

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Cap
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by Cap »

djy2j wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:11 am

I want Ayton to succeed. OnceIf he starts figuring out the little things the progress will be much quicker.
FTFY. ;)

I wish I shared your confidence that it’s just a matter of time. I’m not sure he has the head for the game.

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SunsRIt
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by SunsRIt »

djy2j wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:21 am
It's not "overwhelming" or "important" by any means. Not sure why it seems to disgust some that Ayton is held accountable on this forum. Some people watch games differently than others. I'd say there's no right or wrong way to analyze it. Some choose to rely on what the box score tells them. Others don't. It's fine either way I'm not going to hold back on Ayton, or any player, because it ruffles a few feathers. I'm simply pointing out the flaws of a top draft pick who comes off the bench on a 16-23 team and I offer no apologies for doing so.
What I find disgusting is people that feel the need to call him out on his “bullshit” when he is just a 21 year old 7 foot kid trying to figure out how to play in a man’s league. If you would like to give constructive criticism or maybe some suggestions of how you think he should play, great, but calling him on his “bullshit” every time he steps on the floor is not your responsibility. If you would like to do that when he has been in the league for 3-5 years and you have gotten to know him, go right ahead. Until then we should probably hold back just a little bit.

That being said, I too get frustrated with him when he catches the ball right under the basket and lays it in with a soft finger roll instead of trying to tear down the rim with a dunk. He may never turn into that type of player, but I still think he will be very good player in this league.

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djy2j
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by djy2j »

Cap wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:43 am
djy2j wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:11 am

I want Ayton to succeed. OnceIf he starts figuring out the little things the progress will be much quicker.
FTFY. ;)

I wish I shared your confidence that it’s just a matter of time. I’m not sure he has the head for the game.
Remains to be seen. He doesn't demonstrate the feel or the passion for the game like you would hope. Good news is there is still time for him to grow up.
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djy2j
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by djy2j »

SunsRIt wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:45 am
djy2j wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:21 am
It's not "overwhelming" or "important" by any means. Not sure why it seems to disgust some that Ayton is held accountable on this forum. Some people watch games differently than others. I'd say there's no right or wrong way to analyze it. Some choose to rely on what the box score tells them. Others don't. It's fine either way I'm not going to hold back on Ayton, or any player, because it ruffles a few feathers. I'm simply pointing out the flaws of a top draft pick who comes off the bench on a 16-23 team and I offer no apologies for doing so.
What I find disgusting is people that feel the need to call him out on his “bullshit” when he is just a 21 year old 7 foot kid trying to figure out how to play in a man’s league. If you would like to give constructive criticism or maybe some suggestions of how you think he should play, great, but calling him on his “bullshit” every time he steps on the floor is not your responsibility. If you would like to do that when he has been in the league for 3-5 years and you have gotten to know him, go right ahead. Until then we should probably hold back just a little bit.

That being said, I too get frustrated with him when he catches the ball right under the basket and lays it in with a soft finger roll instead of trying to tear down the rim with a dunk. He may never turn into that type of player, but I still think he will be very good player in this league.
Be disgusted. It's not like any of these players read anything myself or anyone posts on here. So their feelings aren't really of my concern. Tyler Johnson didn't play like garbage in November because I came here and posted that he was "trash" 17 times this off-season.

I've provided plenty of constructive criticism such as how he can improve his rebounding numbers by boxing out. Also, helping the team by getting to the foul line and not settling for jumpers. Some guys don't like getting to the line because they can't shoot. Ayton is a great FT shooter. I praise the guy when he looks good out there or plays hard.

If you want me to take it easy on him because he's young, ain't happening. Playing hard, showing fire, being ready to play have nothing to do with age. These have been my main criticisms of him. If you want to say he doesn't box out because he's young, OK. But then you'd have to say he doesn't because he hasn't had a single coach ever teach him what that is. I just know that I learned how to do that in 3rd grade. I'm not being snarky. I'm just saying that in my experience we were taught basic rebounding fundamentals very early.

The things I can let slide because of age are defensive rotations, passing up a good shot, pick and roll mistakes, overpassing or forcing a pass that isn't there. All that gets fixed quicker based on coaching.
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SunsRIt
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by SunsRIt »

djy2j wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:17 pm
SunsRIt wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:45 am
djy2j wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:21 am
It's not "overwhelming" or "important" by any means. Not sure why it seems to disgust some that Ayton is held accountable on this forum. Some people watch games differently than others. I'd say there's no right or wrong way to analyze it. Some choose to rely on what the box score tells them. Others don't. It's fine either way I'm not going to hold back on Ayton, or any player, because it ruffles a few feathers. I'm simply pointing out the flaws of a top draft pick who comes off the bench on a 16-23 team and I offer no apologies for doing so.
What I find disgusting is people that feel the need to call him out on his “bullshit” when he is just a 21 year old 7 foot kid trying to figure out how to play in a man’s league. If you would like to give constructive criticism or maybe some suggestions of how you think he should play, great, but calling him on his “bullshit” every time he steps on the floor is not your responsibility. If you would like to do that when he has been in the league for 3-5 years and you have gotten to know him, go right ahead. Until then we should probably hold back just a little bit.

That being said, I too get frustrated with him when he catches the ball right under the basket and lays it in with a soft finger roll instead of trying to tear down the rim with a dunk. He may never turn into that type of player, but I still think he will be very good player in this league.
Be disgusted. It's not like any of these players read anything myself or anyone posts on here. So their feelings aren't really of my concern. Tyler Johnson didn't play like garbage in November because I came here and posted that he was "trash" 17 times this off-season.

I've provided plenty of constructive criticism such as how he can improve his rebounding numbers by boxing out. Also, helping the team by getting to the foul line and not settling for jumpers. Some guys don't like getting to the line because they can't shoot. Ayton is a great FT shooter. I praise the guy when he looks good out there or plays hard.

If you want me to take it easy on him because he's young, ain't happening. Playing hard, showing fire, being ready to play have nothing to do with age. These have been my main criticisms of him. If you want to say he doesn't box out because he's young, OK. But then you'd have to say he doesn't because he hasn't had a single coach ever teach him what that is. I just know that I learned how to do that in 3rd grade. I'm not being snarky. I'm just saying that in my experience we were taught basic rebounding fundamentals very early.

The things I can let slide because of age are defensive rotations, passing up a good shot, pick and roll mistakes, overpassing or forcing a pass that isn't there. All that gets fixed quicker based on coaching.
So you grew up and were coached in the Bahamas where basketball is such a big sport too? I received the same coaching and definitely know how to box out. I understand the frustration, I have it too. I have also seen him do a very good job of boxing out on multiple occasions, does he ever get praised when that happens? Believe me I want him to drive more and stop settling for jumpers, but I really think that comes with time and, more importantly, confidence. I honestly think he doesn’t know what he is capable of yet. I think we will see him awaken soon and start doing those things. Once he has a real taste for it he will be a different player. We just need to be patient. In games played he hasn’t even seen a full season yet.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by Mori Chu »

We just need to be patient. In games played he hasn’t even seen a full season yet.
This is it in a nutshell. He's young; he's just barely getting started. He's learning. It will take time. Big men take longer to develop.

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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by O_Gardino »

You would think we were blown out in the last 2 games the way we are fighting.

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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

The problem is we would've been blown out if the opponents weren't Charlotte and Orlando.
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by specialsauce »

Indy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:49 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:14 am
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:35 pm
Once again, Zeller had 2 offensive rebounds.

The Suns out rebounded the Hornets by a huge margin.

This is ridiculous.
Did you notice how the Hornets got like 10 straight buckets right at the rim as soon as he entered the game in the first quarter? Who needs offensive rebounds when the guy who should be protecting the paint is out of position?
but the box score doesn't show that!
A total joke. So when Graham takes Okobo to the whole and makes a layup that’s on Ayton? Their bigs did not go off on him. He’s done a great job of contesting shots at the hoop within reach but at some point the perimeter players need to stay in front of their man. You guys are so biased against him because of the Doncic juice.

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The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by The Bobster »

specialsauce wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:09 pm

A total joke. So when Graham takes Okobo to the whole and makes a layup that’s on Ayton? Their bigs did not go off on him. He’s done a great job of contesting shots at the hoop within reach but at some point the perimeter players need to stay in front of their man. You guys are so biased against him because of the Doncic juice.
The perimeter defense has been pretty horrific lately.
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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by Indy »

specialsauce wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:09 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:49 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:14 am
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:35 pm
Once again, Zeller had 2 offensive rebounds.

The Suns out rebounded the Hornets by a huge margin.

This is ridiculous.
Did you notice how the Hornets got like 10 straight buckets right at the rim as soon as he entered the game in the first quarter? Who needs offensive rebounds when the guy who should be protecting the paint is out of position?
but the box score doesn't show that!
A total joke. So when Graham takes Okobo to the whole and makes a layup that’s on Ayton? Their bigs did not go off on him. He’s done a great job of contesting shots at the hoop within reach but at some point the perimeter players need to stay in front of their man. You guys are so biased against him because of the Doncic juice.
Just because our perimeter defense is horrible, doesn't mean our interior defense isn't.

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by specialsauce »

Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:26 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:09 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:49 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:14 am
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:35 pm
Once again, Zeller had 2 offensive rebounds.

The Suns out rebounded the Hornets by a huge margin.

This is ridiculous.
Did you notice how the Hornets got like 10 straight buckets right at the rim as soon as he entered the game in the first quarter? Who needs offensive rebounds when the guy who should be protecting the paint is out of position?
but the box score doesn't show that!
A total joke. So when Graham takes Okobo to the whole and makes a layup that’s on Ayton? Their bigs did not go off on him. He’s done a great job of contesting shots at the hoop within reach but at some point the perimeter players need to stay in front of their man. You guys are so biased against him because of the Doncic juice.
Just because our perimeter defense is horrible, doesn't mean our interior defense isn't.
I think DAs defense has been significantly better than last year. I think he’s often the best defender on the court for our team not named Bridges.

I wish he would dunk with authority and carry some killer instinct and anger on to the court, but it was apparent from day 1 that’s not who he is. Just like Bender, that won’t change. I want to see him at least grow more patient and confident with the ball in his hands.

Phoenix219
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by Phoenix219 »

Whats wrong with Baynes? why don't we play Jerome any? what happened to all the assists and passing and unselfishness we started with? Why does no one care anymore? It started out so strongly. (the season).

Meh.

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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by phatmike »

specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:07 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:26 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:09 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:49 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:14 am


Did you notice how the Hornets got like 10 straight buckets right at the rim as soon as he entered the game in the first quarter? Who needs offensive rebounds when the guy who should be protecting the paint is out of position?
but the box score doesn't show that!
A total joke. So when Graham takes Okobo to the whole and makes a layup that’s on Ayton? Their bigs did not go off on him. He’s done a great job of contesting shots at the hoop within reach but at some point the perimeter players need to stay in front of their man. You guys are so biased against him because of the Doncic juice.
Just because our perimeter defense is horrible, doesn't mean our interior defense isn't.
I think DAs defense has been significantly better than last year. I think he’s often the best defender on the court for our team not named Bridges.

I wish he would dunk with authority and carry some killer instinct and anger on to the court, but it was apparent from day 1 that’s not who he is. Just like Bender, that won’t change. I want to see him at least grow more patient and confident with the ball in his hands.
I think his individual one on one defense is significantly better as well. It's very apparent to me - and the quality of shots people are putting up against him in those scenarios are average to below average imo. He's altering those shots. Where he seems lost is team defense or when things get congested in the lane - he loses position and/or his man. This obviously isn't just on him - it's TEAM defense for a reason and to me it seems like the team plays perimeter defense with the thought that they have an enforcer at the rim. And they just don't yet.

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Hornets (15-26) @ Suns (15-23), Sun 1/11/20

Post by specialsauce »

phatmike wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:02 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:07 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:26 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:09 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:49 am


but the box score doesn't show that!
A total joke. So when Graham takes Okobo to the whole and makes a layup that’s on Ayton? Their bigs did not go off on him. He’s done a great job of contesting shots at the hoop within reach but at some point the perimeter players need to stay in front of their man. You guys are so biased against him because of the Doncic juice.
Just because our perimeter defense is horrible, doesn't mean our interior defense isn't.
I think DAs defense has been significantly better than last year. I think he’s often the best defender on the court for our team not named Bridges.

I wish he would dunk with authority and carry some killer instinct and anger on to the court, but it was apparent from day 1 that’s not who he is. Just like Bender, that won’t change. I want to see him at least grow more patient and confident with the ball in his hands.
I think his individual one on one defense is significantly better as well. It's very apparent to me - and the quality of shots people are putting up against him in those scenarios are average to below average imo. He's altering those shots. Where he seems lost is team defense or when things get congested in the lane - he loses position and/or his man. This obviously isn't just on him - it's TEAM defense for a reason and to me it seems like the team plays perimeter defense with the thought that they have an enforcer at the rim. And they just don't yet.
Okobo couldn’t stay in front of his man if his life depended on it last night. I mean he may as well have not even tried. It’s hard to expect the big man to stop dribble penetration at full speed and stay on his own man at the same time.

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