Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19

[The Bobster]

here's how i rank the great centers in the 90s
shaq > hakeem > robinson > ewing > mourning

That's pretty fair. But I think there's a big gap between Robinson and Ewing.

[Indy]

here's how i rank the great centers in the 90s
shaq > hakeem > robinson > ewing > mourning

That's pretty fair. But I think there's a big gap between Robinson and Ewing.

Like a Teddy-Roosevelt-on-Mount-Rushmore kind of drop.

[Indy]

Ayton must have read the comments tonight. That was a great Robinson impersonation.

Agreed. It was great to see. He can literally do that most nights with that type of attitude. I know it has been 30 years since anyone has averaged 18 boards a game, but he has that ability. He could easily be a 25/18/4 guy in this league with the right work ethic.

[Cap]

Ayton must have read the comments tonight. That was a great Robinson impersonation.

Agreed. It was great to see. He can literally do that most nights with that type of attitude. I know it has been 30 years since anyone has averaged 18 boards a game, but he has that ability. He could easily be a 25/18/4 guy in this league with the right work ethic.

If it requires the right work ethic, then it’s not done “easily,” is it?

[O_Gardino]

This isn't meant as Ayton hate, so please don't take this as that, but I know a lot of people have compared Ayton to David Robinson and this clip doesn't make me think that at all. Ayton isn't trying to kill the rim or make athletic and acrobatic runs at the rim like Robinson did regularly. Seriously, could you imagine Ayton getting 52 pts in a game, let alone 71?

Holy s***. I didn't realize he was such a beast! I only caught his later playing days when I was younger alongside Duncan. He was more finesse. I wish Ayton was half as physical as Robinson. Not only was he jacked but he was just throwing it down on people! Kind of reminds me of a 7ft Shawn Kemp!

This may surprise you also, but Robinson was labeled as "soft" his entire career.

Partly because of his religious views. Partly because he didn't dominate in the playoffs the way folks wanted. Hakeem owned him in the one playoff series in which they met. (It's crazy that they only met in the playoffs once. Robinson and Ewing never met in the playoffs.)

http://bkref.com/tiny/GNuzP

[O_Gardino]

here's how i rank the great centers in the 90s
shaq > hakeem > robinson > ewing > mourning

That's pretty fair. But I think there's a big gap between Robinson and Ewing.

I wonder where prime Sabonis would have ranked if he had made it to America. Maybe up there with Hakeem.

Shaq -> Hakeem > (Sabonis?) > Robinson --> Ewing > Divac > Morning

I'm not sure about Mourning. He was a star, for sure. But with his injuries, he never really lived up to that. I'd be inclined to rank Vlade higher, despite being a top tier role player, because I feel that Vlade helped pave the way for modern big men and was a huge factor in the playoffs year after year.

I would also add that there's a real age gap between all of those.

In the 92/93 season:
Oneal: 20
Mourning: 22
Divac: 24
Robinson: 27
Sabonis: 28
Hakeem: 30
Ewing: 30

[LazarusLong]

I'd prefer Olajuwon ahead of Shaq.
Shaquille had better supporting talent around him when he won championships (Bryant/Lakers, Wade/Heat)
Outside of Drexler on the second Houston title, who on those teams was an All-Star?

I was never a fan of O'Neal bulking up to 360 or 370 and bludgeoning his way to the basket, with refs afraid to call an offensive foul on him.

[Split T]

Hmmm

[Mori Chu]

I liked Grant a lot when I've seen him in games recently, but I confess I haven't watched him a lot. The main thing I'd worry about is outside shooting. He shoots 36.7% from 3; do folks think that would be good enough? I was also surprised when I looked at his rebounding numbers; they're lower than I would have thought, only 3.2 a game.

[Indy]

Ayton must have read the comments tonight. That was a great Robinson impersonation.

Agreed. It was great to see. He can literally do that most nights with that type of attitude. I know it has been 30 years since anyone has averaged 18 boards a game, but he has that ability. He could easily be a 25/18/4 guy in this league with the right work ethic.

If it requires the right work ethic, then it’s not done “easily,” is it?

His physical skills would make it easy, if he had the right mindset. So yeah, I am sticking with it.

[jonh]

Ayton must have read the comments tonight. That was a great Robinson impersonation.

Agreed. It was great to see. He can literally do that most nights with that type of attitude. I know it has been 30 years since anyone has averaged 18 boards a game, but he has that ability. He could easily be a 25/18/4 guy in this league with the right work ethic.

If it requires the right work ethic, then it’s not done “easily,” is it?

His physical skills would make it easy, if he had the right mindset. So yeah, I am sticking with it.

How many rebounds do you think he could average if he was really trying hard? 20? Drummands career high in rebounding for a season is 16.0--Its hard for me to think of Ayton averaging more than 18.

If he averaged 16 a game, I would be incredibly excited.

[Indy]

Ayton must have read the comments tonight. That was a great Robinson impersonation.

Agreed. It was great to see. He can literally do that most nights with that type of attitude. I know it has been 30 years since anyone has averaged 18 boards a game, but he has that ability. He could easily be a 25/18/4 guy in this league with the right work ethic.

If it requires the right work ethic, then it’s not done “easily,” is it?

His physical skills would make it easy, if he had the right mindset. So yeah, I am sticking with it.

How many rebounds do you think he could average if he was really trying hard? 20? Drummands career high in rebounding for a season is 16.0--Its hard for me to think of Ayton averaging more than 18.

If he averaged 16 a game, I would be incredibly excited.

I think 18 is a realistic goal for someone with his size and athleticism. But honestly, I care more about his scoring and blocks.

[Split T]

I liked Grant a lot when I've seen him in games recently, but I confess I haven't watched him a lot. The main thing I'd worry about is outside shooting. He shoots 36.7% from 3; do folks think that would be good enough? I was also surprised when I looked at his rebounding numbers; they're lower than I would have thought, only 3.2 a game.

His 3pt shooting is better than anyone else we’d be playing there. He’s not a great rebounder, but he’s played next to Jokic and Steven Adams(not to mention Westbrook) and I’m not too concerned about rebounding(Ayton is getting 20 a game now

His defense would be real nice though.

[O_Gardino]

Grant would be a great change of pace behind Saric at the 4 spot.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Grant is better than Saric at everything except for passing and maybe shooting.

[The Bobster]

here's how i rank the great centers in the 90s
shaq > hakeem > robinson > ewing > mourning

That's pretty fair. But I think there's a big gap between Robinson and Ewing.

I wonder where prime Sabonis would have ranked if he had made it to America. Maybe up there with Hakeem.

Shaq -> Hakeem > (Sabonis?) > Robinson --> Ewing > Divac > Morning

I'm not sure about Mourning. He was a star, for sure. But with his injuries, he never really lived up to that. I'd be inclined to rank Vlade higher, despite being a top tier role player, because I feel that Vlade helped pave the way for modern big men and was a huge factor in the playoffs year after year.

I would also add that there's a real age gap between all of those.

In the 92/93 season:
Oneal: 20
Mourning: 22
Divac: 24
Robinson: 27
Sabonis: 28
Hakeem: 30
Ewing: 30

If Sabonis had come over before he has his knee and Achilles injuries he may have been #1 on that list.

It surprised me that Ewing wasn't more dominant when he came into the league - he had the reputation of being ferocious at Georgetown and he was more or less a finesse player on offense in the NBA.

[Indy]

here's how i rank the great centers in the 90s
shaq > hakeem > robinson > ewing > mourning

That's pretty fair. But I think there's a big gap between Robinson and Ewing.

I wonder where prime Sabonis would have ranked if he had made it to America. Maybe up there with Hakeem.

Shaq -> Hakeem > (Sabonis?) > Robinson --> Ewing > Divac > Morning

I'm not sure about Mourning. He was a star, for sure. But with his injuries, he never really lived up to that. I'd be inclined to rank Vlade higher, despite being a top tier role player, because I feel that Vlade helped pave the way for modern big men and was a huge factor in the playoffs year after year.

I would also add that there's a real age gap between all of those.

In the 92/93 season:
Oneal: 20
Mourning: 22
Divac: 24
Robinson: 27
Sabonis: 28
Hakeem: 30
Ewing: 30

If Sabonis had come over before he has his knee and Achilles injuries he may have been #1 on that list.

It surprised me that Ewing wasn't more dominant when he came into the league - he had the reputation of being ferocious at Georgetown and he was more or less a finesse player on offense in the NBA.

I think if Ewing played for a small market team, he would hardly be remembered as a great center in the 90s. He probably peaked at the end of the 80s, despite it being early.

He didn't have single season in the 90s with a VORP over 5, but he did have 4 with a WS over 10.

For VORP:
Robinson (7), Dream and Shaq (3 each), and Vlade (1) all had seasons with a VORP 5 or greater. Robinson had one at 10.6!

For Win Shares:

DRob (8), Shaq (5), Ewing (4), Dream (3), Dikembe and Brad Dougherty [!?!] (2), and Parish & Zo with 1.

That 10.6 VORP year for DRob also had him with a Win Share of 20!

[O_Gardino]

here's how i rank the great centers in the 90s
shaq > hakeem > robinson > ewing > mourning

That's pretty fair. But I think there's a big gap between Robinson and Ewing.

I wonder where prime Sabonis would have ranked if he had made it to America. Maybe up there with Hakeem.

Shaq -> Hakeem > (Sabonis?) > Robinson --> Ewing > Divac > Morning

I'm not sure about Mourning. He was a star, for sure. But with his injuries, he never really lived up to that. I'd be inclined to rank Vlade higher, despite being a top tier role player, because I feel that Vlade helped pave the way for modern big men and was a huge factor in the playoffs year after year.

I would also add that there's a real age gap between all of those.

In the 92/93 season:
Oneal: 20
Mourning: 22
Divac: 24
Robinson: 27
Sabonis: 28
Hakeem: 30
Ewing: 30

If Sabonis had come over before he has his knee and Achilles injuries he may have been #1 on that list.

It surprised me that Ewing wasn't more dominant when he came into the league - he had the reputation of being ferocious at Georgetown and he was more or less a finesse player on offense in the NBA.

I think if Ewing played for a small market team, he would hardly be remembered as a great center in the 90s. He probably peaked at the end of the 80s, despite it being early.

He didn't have single season in the 90s with a VORP over 5, but he did have 4 with a WS over 10.

For VORP:
Robinson (7), Dream and Shaq (3 each), and Vlade (1) all had seasons with a VORP 5 or greater. Robinson had one at 10.6!

For Win Shares:

DRob (8), Shaq (5), Ewing (4), Dream (3), Dikembe and Brad Dougherty [!?!] (2), and Parish & Zo with 1.

That 10.6 VORP year for DRob also had him with a Win Share of 20!

Ewing and Hakeem were great centers of the 80s. Their collegiate play was as important back then as their NBA play.

Hakeem was also a great center of the 90's, because he continued to play exceptionally well up to about 34.

[The Bobster]

Career Games/Win Shares - WS per 82 GP

Robinson - 987/178.67 - 14.8
O'Neal - 1207/181.71 - 12.3
Olajuwon - 1238/162.77 - 10.8
Ewing - 1183/126.45 - 8.8

[jonh]

I think this is a really interesting article— Monty is trying to temper expectations:

https://arizonasports.com/story/2227159 ... 0-20-game/