Suns News: Season Resumes

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by In2ition » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:16 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:26 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:24 pm
Okay enough on the philosophical definitions of racism.

Hot take incoming- get ready, real shocker!!!

Oubre for

Lonzo
Nickeil Alexander Walker
1st round pick
Are you kidding? I would do that in a heartbeat. I think NO probably blocks your number though as Scam Likely.
I'n not that high on that package. Actually, I wouldn't take it. Value wise you can defend it, but Lonzo and Rubio on the same team is absurd, and NAW has a lot to prove. A 1stR from a somewhat equal team doesn't make me lose any sleep. On the other hand, I have a proven fit that is a young starter or 6MOTY candidate. If his knee is fine, keep Oubre unless it is for a clear upgrade (or at the very least, comparable production at PF).
I would probably trade Rubio to GSW for their pick and the TPE. Then you could possibly get 3 good players for him.
1. Opens up more cap space for a FA signing.
2. Could hit on the draft pick.
3. Gives you an option to use the TPE in a trade package for another player or multiple players if you split it up.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:30 am

GSW could use a handler for the second unit, but they'd be crazy if they use that pick fir Rubio. They should be shopping the pick, but Rubio doesn't do a ton for them; I'd look elsewhere.

For PHX, value would be terrific in abstract, but we are the best passing team in the league with Ricky (after what feels like an eternity of putrid ball movent and retarded guard play), so perhaps we'd be getting too smart for our own good.

As for the aftermath, you can't have the TPE along with cap space, so we'd be making the move for the pick and the ability to be bigger players in free agency (and only PG worth the hassle would be FVV, in the improbable case TOR lets him go).

Speaking of draft trades, assuming current slots, I'd focus my efforts in trading up for Haliburton and looking for a PF in free agency with the ~20M in cap space (renounce to everyone). I'd offer ATL #10 and lightly protected 2021 or 2022 1stR, plus filler if they want (Jerome, Okobo, Carter, future 2ndR) for their #4.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:10 am

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:30 am
GSW could use a handler for the second unit, but they'd be crazy if they use that pick fir Rubio. They should be shopping the pick, but Rubio doesn't do a ton for them; I'd look elsewhere.

For PHX, value would be terrific in abstract, but we are the best passing team in the league with Ricky (after what feels like an eternity of putrid ball movent and retarded guard play), so perhaps we'd be getting too smart for our own good.

As for the aftermath, you can't have the TPE along with cap space, so we'd be making the move for the pick and the ability to be bigger players in free agency (and only PG worth the hassle would be FVV, in the improbable case TOR lets him go).

Speaking of draft trades, assuming current slots, I'd focus my efforts in trading up for Haliburton and looking for a PF in free agency with the ~20M in cap space (renounce to everyone). I'd offer ATL #10 and lightly protected 2021 or 2022 1stR, plus filler if they want (Jerome, Okobo, Carter, future 2ndR) for their #4.
Do you have a PF target you prefer? I wouldn’t be too opposed to this route, but I think a bench guard is a bigger need. Unfortunately the guard FA market is weaker. If we can retain Saric on a team friendly deal, like 3 yr 25 million, renounce everyone else, I think that could still leave us with 12-13 million to spend. Not sure on those numbers though.

We’d have Rubio, Booker, Oubre, Bridges, Ayton, Johnson, Saric as rotation guys, plus maybe whoever we draft at 10. Maybe Payne as well if he plays well in the bubble and we decide to keep him.

A guard off the bench who could create their own shot would be nice. The best of those, not counting VanVleet is probably Jordan Clarkson, but I’d guess Utah tries to retain him. Other guys(some I kinda like, others not so much): Alec Burks, Alonzo Trier, Etwaun Moore, Jordan McRae, Frank Jackson, Goran Dragic, Shabazz Napier). None of those guys really are even worth the MLE though.

More interesting guys, but less likely to be available/more catch and shoot scorers:
Justin Holliday, Tim Hardaway Jr, Malik Beasley, Joe Harris, Langston Galloway.
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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by In2ition » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:18 am

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:30 am
GSW could use a handler for the second unit, but they'd be crazy if they use that pick fir Rubio. They should be shopping the pick, but Rubio doesn't do a ton for them; I'd look elsewhere.

For PHX, value would be terrific in abstract, but we are the best passing team in the league with Ricky (after what feels like an eternity of putrid ball movent and retarded guard play), so perhaps we'd be getting too smart for our own good.

As for the aftermath, you can't have the TPE along with cap space, so we'd be making the move for the pick and the ability to be bigger players in free agency (and only PG worth the hassle would be FVV, in the improbable case TOR lets him go).

Speaking of draft trades, assuming current slots, I'd focus my efforts in trading up for Haliburton and looking for a PF in free agency with the ~20M in cap space (renounce to everyone). I'd offer ATL #10 and lightly protected 2021 or 2022 1stR, plus filler if they want (Jerome, Okobo, Carter, future 2ndR) for their #4.
Is that true? Because GSW would have to use it to even make the trade go through. We are getting it from them, not creating it from nothing.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by ShelC » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 am

In2ition wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:16 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:26 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:24 pm
Okay enough on the philosophical definitions of racism.

Hot take incoming- get ready, real shocker!!!

Oubre for

Lonzo
Nickeil Alexander Walker
1st round pick
Are you kidding? I would do that in a heartbeat. I think NO probably blocks your number though as Scam Likely.
I'n not that high on that package. Actually, I wouldn't take it. Value wise you can defend it, but Lonzo and Rubio on the same team is absurd, and NAW has a lot to prove. A 1stR from a somewhat equal team doesn't make me lose any sleep. On the other hand, I have a proven fit that is a young starter or 6MOTY candidate. If his knee is fine, keep Oubre unless it is for a clear upgrade (or at the very least, comparable production at PF).
I would probably trade Rubio to GSW for their pick and the TPE. Then you could possibly get 3 good players for him.
1. Opens up more cap space for a FA signing.
2. Could hit on the draft pick.
3. Gives you an option to use the TPE in a trade package for another player or multiple players if you split it up.
Trading Rubio for TPE/capspace would do potentially irreparable harm to the organization. It would reek of Sarver selling off a valuable asset to save more money, putting finances ahead of success. It would leave us without a tried and true starting PG, a steady hand on the court, one of the league leaders in assists and a key part of the culture change taking place. What message would it send to Booker? Might be the final straw for him. And are we even sure he'd use the TPE to acquire a player(s)? Would we hit on a draft pick? Or a FA signing (we basically lucked out with Rubio)? We need the stability with the organization right now after the past 5 years of turmoil and turnover. Rubio has his flaws but he's exactly what we've needed.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:53 am

Ya you can’t trade Rubio without a solid plan to get a replacement for him. I wasn’t a huge fan of the Rubio signing, but he’s been good. Shooting was my biggest concern and he’s shot 35%, I’ll take that from him.
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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by ShelC » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:58 am

In a perfect world, Payne proves worth keeping around and becomes our backup PG who can eventually take over the starting job maybe after next season. But in the meantime, he can be the first guard off the bench and play those 28-30 minutes next to either Rubio, Book, etc.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:18 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:58 am
In a perfect world, Payne proves worth keeping around and becomes our backup PG who can eventually take over the starting job maybe after next season. But in the meantime, he can be the first guard off the bench and play those 28-30 minutes next to either Rubio, Book, etc.
In a perfect world I guess, I don’t have a lot of confidence that he’s gonna reach that level though. I see him as a 15-18 minute guy who can start in a pinch as an injury replacement.
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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by specialsauce » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pm

Lonzo Ball. Jrue Holiday. FVV. Spencer Dinwiddie. All players I’d prefer to chase after.

I don’t hate Rubio. I just don’t see him as part of the next Suns contender.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by In2ition » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:33 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 am
In2ition wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:16 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:26 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:24 pm
Okay enough on the philosophical definitions of racism.

Hot take incoming- get ready, real shocker!!!

Oubre for

Lonzo
Nickeil Alexander Walker
1st round pick
Are you kidding? I would do that in a heartbeat. I think NO probably blocks your number though as Scam Likely.
I'n not that high on that package. Actually, I wouldn't take it. Value wise you can defend it, but Lonzo and Rubio on the same team is absurd, and NAW has a lot to prove. A 1stR from a somewhat equal team doesn't make me lose any sleep. On the other hand, I have a proven fit that is a young starter or 6MOTY candidate. If his knee is fine, keep Oubre unless it is for a clear upgrade (or at the very least, comparable production at PF).
I would probably trade Rubio to GSW for their pick and the TPE. Then you could possibly get 3 good players for him.
1. Opens up more cap space for a FA signing.
2. Could hit on the draft pick.
3. Gives you an option to use the TPE in a trade package for another player or multiple players if you split it up.
Trading Rubio for TPE/capspace would do potentially irreparable harm to the organization. It would reek of Sarver selling off a valuable asset to save more money, putting finances ahead of success. It would leave us without a tried and true starting PG, a steady hand on the court, one of the league leaders in assists and a key part of the culture change taking place. What message would it send to Booker? Might be the final straw for him. And are we even sure he'd use the TPE to acquire a player(s)? Would we hit on a draft pick? Or a FA signing (we basically lucked out with Rubio)? We need the stability with the organization right now after the past 5 years of turmoil and turnover. Rubio has his flaws but he's exactly what we've needed.
Of course, I wouldn't do it without a plan to use the cap space and TPE. It was also predicated on the Oubre trade for Lonzo and pick trade too. If they didn't have a rock solid flawless plan in place, you don't just roll the dice hoping it works out. Rubio has been really good for the team, even if he isn't perfect.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by ShelC » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:51 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pm
Lonzo Ball. Jrue Holiday. FVV. Spencer Dinwiddie. All players I’d prefer to chase after.

I don’t hate Rubio. I just don’t see him as part of the next Suns contender.
Let's win 40 games first, then start talking about the next Suns contender.

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by Superbone » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:57 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:51 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pm
Lonzo Ball. Jrue Holiday. FVV. Spencer Dinwiddie. All players I’d prefer to chase after.

I don’t hate Rubio. I just don’t see him as part of the next Suns contender.
Let's win 40 games first, then start talking about the next Suns contender.
This. Let's get some wins and let Booker know how it feels to be a winning team. I'm not worrying about winning the championship anytime soon.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins and counting in a shortened season...

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by ShelC » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:58 pm

Really good article by Gina Mizell on Cam Payne

https://valleytales.substack.com/p/new- ... e-thankful
Though Payne called his first few days in Orlando a “big learning curve,” new teammate Dario Saric said it feels like Payne has been with the Suns all season. Payne made extra trips to the gym at night to learn new plays. And the Disney World “bubble” environment, where the Suns are constantly around each other, has helped Payne learn personalities and tendencies on and off the court — an important intangible for a point guard.

His plus/minus against the Wizards was plus-21, second only to All-Star Devin Booker. He finished with nine points on 4-of-7 shooting, three rebounds, two assists, two steals and one turnover in 19 minutes of Phoenix’s 125-112 victory.

“It’s not an easy job, because you know you can’t make too many mistakes,” Payne said of the backup point guard role. “It’s all about being consistent and knowing what the coach wants on the court. It’s a big-time role.

“I know it’s a backup point guard. But as a backup point guard, you really gotta be a starter in a sense. … You have to be solid, and you have to be consistent every day.”

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:14 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pm
Lonzo Ball. Jrue Holiday. FVV. Spencer Dinwiddie. All players I’d prefer to chase after.

I don’t hate Rubio. I just don’t see him as part of the next Suns contender.
That’s fair, I also doubt Rubio has a significant role on the next suns contender. He’s got 2 years left. I don’t think we’ll be a serious contender in those 2 years. I do think we can be a playoff team with him in a big role. Playing a JKidd on the Mavs type role is also a real possibility.

I like all 4 of the guys you mentioned and think they can help us. Not sure they are very realistic options though. Maybe Dinwiddie. Not sure how we acquire him though. FVV ain’t coming here and I think NO values both Jrue and Lonzo pretty high
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Mori Chu
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by Mori Chu » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:26 pm

Lot of besmirching of my Rubae going on in this thread. Some of you guys are so eager to tear the team up right as it's figuring some things out. Trading Rubio for a pick and cap space / exceptions is a loser move. You do that and we're back to 18-20 wins for the next two years, and probably Booker leaves. Rubio isn't a perfect player but he contributes a ton and has exceeded expectations here so far. No urgency to trade the guy. If you want to get cute with the roster, fine, explore Oubre moves if they make us better. But enough dumping valuable starters who make the team better in exchange for magic beans.

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by INFORMER » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:46 pm

Split T wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:43 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:52 pm
Split T wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:42 pm
Oubre also only makes 14 million next year I believe
Resigning him I’m assuming will take 20M+. I’d rather use the asset and distribute it to round out the team.
I think a lot depends on how Mikal develops. If he develops into an on ball scoring threat like he’s shown a bit here in the bubble, Oubre does become more expendable. But 3&D Bridges leaves us short on offensive creation, which is a skill Oubre provides.
Thank you for being level-headed. Bridges flashed some very impressive improvement in the scrimmages, but they were freaking scrimmages. I wish we could wait for him to establish himself as a high-level scorer in games that count before we anoint or deem Oubre unnecessary.

At the end of the day, it's about putting the best and most complete team together. Can Bridges be part of that? Absolutely. I think the same applies to Oubre. But the roster still needs a lot of work, and it may not be enough just to add a free agent here and there. I think the draft can yield a very important piece(s), but that is as good as gone for $$$.
2020 Draft: Aaron Nesmith - Paul Reed - Reggie Perry - Leandro Bolmaro - Lamine Diane - Jalen Smith - Desmond Bane - Rayshaun Hammonds - Sam Merrill - Tre Jones - Tyler Bey

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by INFORMER » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:49 pm

Split T wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:10 am
Other guys(some I kinda like, others not so much): Alec Burks, Alonzo Trier, Etwaun Moore, Jordan McRae, Frank Jackson, Goran Dragic, Shabazz Napier). None of those guys really are even worth the MLE though.
Goran Dragic isn't worth the MLE?!
2020 Draft: Aaron Nesmith - Paul Reed - Reggie Perry - Leandro Bolmaro - Lamine Diane - Jalen Smith - Desmond Bane - Rayshaun Hammonds - Sam Merrill - Tre Jones - Tyler Bey

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by INFORMER » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:54 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am
I would probably trade Rubio to GSW for their pick and the TPE. Then you could possibly get 3 good players for him.
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:30 am
GSW could use a handler for the second unit, but they'd be crazy if they use that pick fir Rubio. They should be shopping the pick, but Rubio doesn't do a ton for them; I'd look elsewhere.
Rubio makes a lot of sense for Golden State, but I don't think they're giving up their lotto pick this year for him. That is pretty close to the GM malpractice that we see from our franchise. I think if a deal was made, it would be for a 2021 pick and their 2020 second rounders.
2020 Draft: Aaron Nesmith - Paul Reed - Reggie Perry - Leandro Bolmaro - Lamine Diane - Jalen Smith - Desmond Bane - Rayshaun Hammonds - Sam Merrill - Tre Jones - Tyler Bey

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:59 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:49 pm
Split T wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:10 am
Other guys(some I kinda like, others not so much): Alec Burks, Alonzo Trier, Etwaun Moore, Jordan McRae, Frank Jackson, Goran Dragic, Shabazz Napier). None of those guys really are even worth the MLE though.
Goran Dragic isn't worth the MLE?!
He’s the one in there that probably is. That’s my bad.
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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Post by INFORMER » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:00 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 am
Trading Rubio for TPE/capspace would do potentially irreparable harm to the organization. It would reek of Sarver selling off a valuable asset to save more money, putting finances ahead of success. It would leave us without a tried and true starting PG, a steady hand on the court, one of the league leaders in assists and a key part of the culture change taking place. What message would it send to Booker? Might be the final straw for him. And are we even sure he'd use the TPE to acquire a player(s)? Would we hit on a draft pick? Or a FA signing (we basically lucked out with Rubio)? We need the stability with the organization right now after the past 5 years of turmoil and turnover. Rubio has his flaws but he's exactly what we've needed.
You trade Rubio for the TPE with the intent on using the cap space elsewhere. No one is saying make that trade and then do nothing. And I think the only reason why any of those negative consequences you are predicting would come true is if the Suns did nothing after making that trade.
2020 Draft: Aaron Nesmith - Paul Reed - Reggie Perry - Leandro Bolmaro - Lamine Diane - Jalen Smith - Desmond Bane - Rayshaun Hammonds - Sam Merrill - Tre Jones - Tyler Bey

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