All Things Ayton

[Split T]

The suns front office clearly doesn’t view Ayton the way you do Jeremy…that’s simply the answer.

Then what is the answer to Sam Vecenie's logical arguments (who has no bias for or against Ayton)? If they're just throwing out bs to the media about how they would have loved to sign Ayton to a 4-year max, then they need to be called out for it.

They don’t owe us an explanation. I’m completely fine with them keeping their reasons in house.

[JeremyG]

The suns front office clearly doesn’t view Ayton the way you do Jeremy…that’s simply the answer.

Then what is the answer to Sam Vecenie's logical arguments (who has no bias for or against Ayton)? If they're just throwing out bs to the media about how they would have loved to sign Ayton to a 4-year max, then they need to be called out for it.

They don’t owe us an explanation. I’m completely fine with them keeping their reasons in house.

Would this also apply if they refused to extend Booker? Or does that standard only apply to Ayton?

What if Chris Paul had left in free agency, because the Suns did not make him an offer, and James Jones just said, "We had a multitude of reasons."

They don't owe their fanbase an explanation? The fanbase that, to a large degree, pays the players' salaries?

[JeremyG]

I thought it might be interesting to take a look back at what everyone thought about this topic before free agency began:

I’m so relieved Ayton has started playing the way he has. Now you don’t worry as much giving him the max. As he’s looking very capable of becoming an All Star. He’s already the 3rd best center in the west, and is knocking on Gobert’s spot.

DA IS GETTING MAX!! ACCEPT IT!

But getting that crap out of the way…If there was any doubt about a DA max deal, it’s gone. He’s getting it and he deserves it, what a freaking game! I love this version of DA.

WHO IS THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH DEANDRE AYton!!! Holy shit. What a way to steal a game from Scott Foster. Sign this guy to the max.

Ayton’s max deal is a done deal alright after these playoffs.

Why Ayton was the right No. 1 pick: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/316 ... oenix-suns

Also, here's a very good article from David Kevin. [...] He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.

Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.

That sounds about right to me, Shel. [...]

Speaking of Ayton, he's proved he's worth a max level contract.

Hmmm...I wonder what changed during an offseason.

[3rdside]

I thought it might be interesting to take a look back at what everyone thought about this topic before free agency began:

I’m so relieved Ayton has started playing the way he has. Now you don’t worry as much giving him the max. As he’s looking very capable of becoming an All Star. He’s already the 3rd best center in the west, and is knocking on Gobert’s spot.

DA IS GETTING MAX!! ACCEPT IT!

But getting that crap out of the way…If there was any doubt about a DA max deal, it’s gone. He’s getting it and he deserves it, what a freaking game! I love this version of DA.

WHO IS THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH DEANDRE AYton!!! Holy shit. What a way to steal a game from Scott Foster. Sign this guy to the max.

Ayton’s max deal is a done deal alright after these playoffs.

Why Ayton was the right No. 1 pick: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/316 ... oenix-suns

Also, here's a very good article from David Kevin. [...] He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.

Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.

That sounds about right to me, Shel. [...]

Speaking of Ayton, he's proved he's worth a max level contract.

Hmmm...I wonder what changed during an offseason.

James Jones knows better than us?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3rdside]

I imagine JJ spoke to Booker and Paul for some insight, as well as Monty, as well as making his own observations.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Just heard James Jones on Burns and Gambo. Couldn't even give a reason for why they refused to give Ayton 5 years. He just said they had a "multitude of reasons."

Well, 150 games is a multitude.

If you think he is worth a 4 year max, why wouldn't you want to lock him up for 5 years? It's nonsense.

You are getting it wrong.

First, it's obvious the Front Office doesn't consider Ayton a Max Player, but if you want them to declare it publicly, it is as ridiculous as asking Ayton's agent to acknowledge publicly, that they just care about the money.

Now, even if I don't consider Ayton a Max Player, if having him under contract works best for my interest, and in order to get him to sign, I could be willing to overpay him, by giving him the max but just for a fraction of the maximum five years. That way, I have control over the player, and the possibility TO TRADE HIM to another team, but such team could be deterred for having him as his second or third max player.

You are piling up declarations and articles of people surprised about that unfulfilled max contract, but none of them know first hand and in a daily basis how the kid truly is evolving, not even the most rabid fans have the same degree of information that Monty, Jones and -as much as we dislike his input- Sarver. If all three agreed that Ayton is not going to live up to a Full Max player expectation -as he already didn't as 1st overall pick-, then they can be willing to overpay him just on money per year, but not on money AND years.

You clearly think we are losing it all by WAITING ANOTHER YEAR to reach an agreement, the front office clearly don't, and to certain degree, I'm glad about it. There are risk on this route, of course, but there is as much risk on just giving the Kid his money, and hope he delivers at the level that contract requires, again, he already was not worth FOUR years collecting 1st overall pick's checks. Not even a full year he was.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I thought it might be interesting to take a look back at what everyone thought about this topic before free agency began:

I’m so relieved Ayton has started playing the way he has. Now you don’t worry as much giving him the max. As he’s looking very capable of becoming an All Star. He’s already the 3rd best center in the west, and is knocking on Gobert’s spot.

DA IS GETTING MAX!! ACCEPT IT!

But getting that crap out of the way…If there was any doubt about a DA max deal, it’s gone. He’s getting it and he deserves it, what a freaking game! I love this version of DA.

WHO IS THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH DEANDRE AYton!!! Holy shit. What a way to steal a game from Scott Foster. Sign this guy to the max.

Ayton’s max deal is a done deal alright after these playoffs.

Why Ayton was the right No. 1 pick: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/316 ... oenix-suns

Also, here's a very good article from David Kevin. [...] He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.

Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.

That sounds about right to me, Shel. [...]

Speaking of Ayton, he's proved he's worth a max level contract.

Hmmm...I wonder what changed during an offseason.

Simply, we cooled off. That's why teams are not allowed to negotiate out of the proper periods, to avoid overreacting, because... You can as well collect an entire set of posting in the opposite direction every time the Kid was dragging his feet. You are nit picking poster's feelings in the middle of a playoffs run, many of them during games.

[Indy]

I thought it might be interesting to take a look back at what everyone thought about this topic before free agency began:

I’m so relieved Ayton has started playing the way he has. Now you don’t worry as much giving him the max. As he’s looking very capable of becoming an All Star. He’s already the 3rd best center in the west, and is knocking on Gobert’s spot.

DA IS GETTING MAX!! ACCEPT IT!

But getting that crap out of the way…If there was any doubt about a DA max deal, it’s gone. He’s getting it and he deserves it, what a freaking game! I love this version of DA.

WHO IS THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH DEANDRE AYton!!! Holy shit. What a way to steal a game from Scott Foster. Sign this guy to the max.

Ayton’s max deal is a done deal alright after these playoffs.

Why Ayton was the right No. 1 pick: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/316 ... oenix-suns

Also, here's a very good article from David Kevin. [...] He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.

Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.

That sounds about right to me, Shel. [...]

Speaking of Ayton, he's proved he's worth a max level contract.

Hmmm...I wonder what changed during an offseason.

Simply, we cooled off. That's why teams are not allowed to negotiate out of the proper periods, to avoid overreacting, because... You can as well collect an entire set of posting in the opposite direction every time the Kid was dragging his feet. You are nit picking poster's feelings in the middle of a playoffs run, many of them during games.

Ding ding ding

[Indy]

The funny thing in all this—I only have a couple autographed suns jerseys and the only one I got in person was DA.

[Superbone]

You might not be the most objective person when it comes to Ayton.

Hey now! .net is big enough for two AIG's around here!

You stick around here long enough and your original username still works for another player, AytonIsGod!

[pickle]

Man, there's so much anger on this topic... and I thought I was the one that was depressed and psychologically damaged by this team.

Instead of talking about how DA isn't a max player, maybe we should all just root for him to channel his frustration and whatever wisdom is imparted by the coaches and other players on the team into motivation, so that he becomes a more dominant post player (hopefully with signature moves going towards the basket rather than away from the basket), and/or starts shooting 2-3 threes a game with a credible shooting percentage, so that the Suns will have no excuse but to present him with a full 5 year max offer sheet in the next off season. And then we all hope that he signs it rather than spites the team. I personally think he has a pretty positive personality (loved the locker room segment after the WCF where he held that trophy on the floor and said "why she play so hard to get?" repeatedly) and all will be forgiven when the team tastes success again.

If we must panic about some thing because we are Suns fans, maybe we can instead panic that JJ is going to trade Saric and Mikal for Simmons based on that 2 designated rookie max comment.

[Oatmeal]

If they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.

Nonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.

Pointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?

[JeremyG]

If they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.

Nonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.

Pointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?

My point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.

[Indy]

If they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.

Nonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.

Pointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?

My point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.

Name one. He doesn't have the aggression or skill of Giannis. He doesn't have the aggression or shooting of Embiid. He doesn't have the vision and passing of Jokic. There isn't a top big man in the league in the last 10 years that is as limited as Ayton.

[Split T]

The suns front office clearly doesn’t view Ayton the way you do Jeremy…that’s simply the answer.

Then what is the answer to Sam Vecenie's logical arguments (who has no bias for or against Ayton)? If they're just throwing out bs to the media about how they would have loved to sign Ayton to a 4-year max, then they need to be called out for it.

They don’t owe us an explanation. I’m completely fine with them keeping their reasons in house.

Would this also apply if they refused to extend Booker? Or does that standard only apply to Ayton?

What if Chris Paul had left in free agency, because the Suns did not make him an offer, and James Jones just said, "We had a multitude of reasons."

They don't owe their fanbase an explanation? The fanbase that, to a large degree, pays the players' salaries?

I’d be a little more confused about the other two scenarios, but ya it would still apply. I think revealing your decision making process is a mistake and shows your hand.

Let’s say they’ve seen things or heard things from Ayton that scared them away from offering the max. Would you want James Jones to say in a press conference or on the radio that they didn’t want to give Ayton a max because they don’t have faith in him as a player? Or to say Ayton has had an inconsistent career here in Phoenix, his play in the postseason was what we want from him, but we wanted to wait and see if he could replicate that for a whole season before committing a max contract to him.

I don’t think you’d want James Jones saying either of those things publicly. That would be much worse…letting the media call Sarver cheap and that he doesn’t want to commit max money is an easier pill to swallow.

[Oatmeal]

If they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.

Nonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.

Pointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?

My point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.

Sure, but I do not think maxing out the guy we have is worth it. You end up like the Jazz being stuck with Goober at C, that team isnt going anywhere in the long term. We could have kept Holmes and still probably gotten to the finals IMO. Bigs can be had for less than the max and i think Jones and Co know that, the perimeter game (shooting/passing/switching) is still where the game is won and lost. Ayton feels like a luxury. He too often disappears for long stretches, like last night for example. I cannot see how maxing him is a smart business move.

[JeremyG]

If they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.

Nonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.

Pointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?

My point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.

Name one. He doesn't have the aggression or skill of Giannis. He doesn't have the aggression or shooting of Embiid. He doesn't have the vision and passing of Jokic. There isn't a top big man in the league in the last 10 years that is as limited as Ayton.

Rudy Gobert is making more than the standard max and is more limited offensively than Ayton. The Jazz consider him to be extremely valuable and paid him the money to prove it. Plus Ayton keeps adding to his game and has obvious offensive potential.

[JeremyG]

If they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.

Nonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.

Pointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?

My point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.

Sure, but I do not think maxing out the guy we have is worth it. You end up like the Jazz being stuck with Goober at C, that team isnt going anywhere in the long term. We could have kept Holmes and still probably gotten to the finals IMO. Bigs can be had for less than the max and i think Jones and Co know that, the perimeter game (shooting/passing/switching) is still where the game is won and lost. Ayton feels like a luxury. He too often disappears for long stretches, like last night for example. I cannot see how maxing him is a smart business move.

I do not believe for one second that we would have made the Finals with Holmes instead of Ayton.

And the Jazz are happy with Gobert, not "stuck" with him. He helped them to the best record in the league last season. Who knows how far they would have gotten in the playoffs without their backcourt being injured. And that's a player that's way more limited offensively than Ayton.

[JeremyG]

The suns front office clearly doesn’t view Ayton the way you do Jeremy…that’s simply the answer.

Then what is the answer to Sam Vecenie's logical arguments (who has no bias for or against Ayton)? If they're just throwing out bs to the media about how they would have loved to sign Ayton to a 4-year max, then they need to be called out for it.

They don’t owe us an explanation. I’m completely fine with them keeping their reasons in house.

Would this also apply if they refused to extend Booker? Or does that standard only apply to Ayton?

What if Chris Paul had left in free agency, because the Suns did not make him an offer, and James Jones just said, "We had a multitude of reasons."

They don't owe their fanbase an explanation? The fanbase that, to a large degree, pays the players' salaries?

I’d be a little more confused about the other two scenarios, but ya it would still apply. I think revealing your decision making process is a mistake and shows your hand.

Let’s say they’ve seen things or heard things from Ayton that scared them away from offering the max. Would you want James Jones to say in a press conference or on the radio that they didn’t want to give Ayton a max because they don’t have faith in him as a player? Or to say Ayton has had an inconsistent career here in Phoenix, his play in the postseason was what we want from him, but we wanted to wait and see if he could replicate that for a whole season before committing a max contract to him.

I don’t think you’d want James Jones saying either of those things publicly. That would be much worse…letting the media call Sarver cheap and that he doesn’t want to commit max money is an easier pill to swallow.

Yes, if that's the truth then he should say it. Maybe it would help motivate Ayton, if that's their goal.

Although, I don't see how he could "prove he's worth a max" over one season. Everyone would just say, "It was a contract year. He only plays motivated when the money's on the line."

[Indy]

You don't say that publicly. It just ruins relationships and hurts his value around the league. You don't think they have told him in private that he is inconsistent?