Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner

[Mori Chu]

I don't think Vince said anything particularly compelling or damning in that clip. Plus it was all second-hand anyway. "I heard from a guy that one time he said something rude about me" is pretty weak. I do think that lots and lots of people seem to have some kind of "Sarver story" about him being a hot head or A-hole to them or in their presence. He just sounds like a piece of trash all around. I don't see a lot of people standing up and saying he's a great guy. The best you're getting is comments like, "I haven't observed any behavior like that in my presence," or, "That's not the Robert Sarver I know." pretty tepid endorsements. Does anybody like this guy?

[Split T]

The Vince Carter Experience for the Suns was basically the exact opposite of the Grant Hill experience. He clearly loafed it while he was here. One of my least favorite Suns ever.

Carter really didn’t play well for us. I remember being pretty excited because I had always been a big Vince Carter fan and he was just not good. I thought well I guess he’s just not good anymore, but he proceeded to play for another decade. Not sure what his deal was, I do remember there being talk that he didn’t want to come to Phoenix for some reason. But maybe I’m misremembering.

[AmareIsGod]

The Vince Carter Experience for the Suns was basically the exact opposite of the Grant Hill experience. He clearly loafed it while he was here. One of my least favorite Suns ever.

Carter really didn’t play well for us. I remember being pretty excited because I had always been a big Vince Carter fan and he was just not good. I thought well I guess he’s just not good anymore, but he proceeded to play for another decade. Not sure what his deal was, I do remember there being talk that he didn’t want to come to Phoenix for some reason. But maybe I’m misremembering.

Hard to hate on Carter too much. At least he wasn't Ariza. That dude was a huge POS.

[Split T]

The Vince Carter Experience for the Suns was basically the exact opposite of the Grant Hill experience. He clearly loafed it while he was here. One of my least favorite Suns ever.

Carter really didn’t play well for us. I remember being pretty excited because I had always been a big Vince Carter fan and he was just not good. I thought well I guess he’s just not good anymore, but he proceeded to play for another decade. Not sure what his deal was, I do remember there being talk that he didn’t want to come to Phoenix for some reason. But maybe I’m misremembering.

Hard to hate on Carter too much. At least he wasn't Ariza. That dude was a huge POS.

Ya, I think Carter is a good dude. I went back and looked and his stats were a little better after he left here with Dallas, but nothing crazy. So maybe my expectations were just a little too high. Plus he came in halfway through the season and maybe just didn’t fit well.

[AmareIsGod]

The Vince Carter Experience for the Suns was basically the exact opposite of the Grant Hill experience. He clearly loafed it while he was here. One of my least favorite Suns ever.

Carter really didn’t play well for us. I remember being pretty excited because I had always been a big Vince Carter fan and he was just not good. I thought well I guess he’s just not good anymore, but he proceeded to play for another decade. Not sure what his deal was, I do remember there being talk that he didn’t want to come to Phoenix for some reason. But maybe I’m misremembering.

Hard to hate on Carter too much. At least he wasn't Ariza. That dude was a huge POS.

Ya, I think Carter is a good dude. I went back and looked and his stats were a little better after he left here with Dallas, but nothing crazy. So maybe my expectations were just a little too high. Plus he came in halfway through the season and maybe just didn’t fit well.

I hear you. I missed the athleticism of prime VC!

[virtual9mm]

I obviously haven't been following this thread closely but have some quick questions:

(1) Has there been any real validation of Sarver using the n-word? I see this being thrown around and don't recall there being any corroboration. But I'll gladly be corrected if there's any real evidence.

(2) Of course Penny Sarver is freaking out. Why should we hold this again her?

(3) I like the idea of a minority owner taking over as Governor and like Jahm Najifi quite a bit more than Sarver. But what are the mechanisms that could make this happen?

I also don't like how this issue is fracturing the board, and agree with the folks who say that this just isn't any fun whatsoever.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I obviously haven't been following this thread closely but have some quick questions:

(1) Has there been any real validation of Sarver using the n-word? I see this being thrown around and don't recall there being any corroboration. But I'll gladly be corrected if there's any real evidence.

(2) Of course Penny Sarver is freaking out. Why should we hold this again her?

(3) I like the idea of a minority owner taking over as Governor and like Jahm Najifi quite a bit more than Sarver. But what are the mechanisms that could make this happen?

I also don't like how this issue is fracturing the board, and agree with the folks who say that this just isn't any fun whatsoever.

1. Sarver admitted to using the word when re-telling a story he heard from a player.

2. No one would hold anything against her if she just stayed out of it, but she decided to contact some of the sources.

3. AFAIK, there aren't any mechanisms that don't involve Sarver voluntarily stepping down or the NBA pursuing it via the courtroom.

I don't think it's "fracturing the board", as you say. I think we're all in agreement that Sarver is a bad actor in this ordeal and he's been cultivating this reckoning for a long time.

[Split T]

I obviously haven't been following this thread closely but have some quick questions:

(1) Has there been any real validation of Sarver using the n-word? I see this being thrown around and don't recall there being any corroboration. But I'll gladly be corrected if there's any real evidence.

(2) Of course Penny Sarver is freaking out. Why should we hold this again her?

(3) I like the idea of a minority owner taking over as Governor and like Jahm Najifi quite a bit more than Sarver. But what are the mechanisms that could make this happen?

I also don't like how this issue is fracturing the board, and agree with the folks who say that this just isn't any fun whatsoever.

1. Sarver admitted to using the word when re-telling a story he heard from a player.

2. No one would hold anything against her if she just stayed out of it, but she decided to contact some of the sources.

3. AFAIK, there aren't any mechanisms that don't involve Sarver voluntarily stepping down or the NBA pursuing it via the courtroom.

I don't think it's "fracturing the board", as you say. I think we're all in agreement that Sarver is a bad actor in this ordeal and he's been cultivating this reckoning for a long time.

To the first one I’ll add that at least 7 people told Baxter Holmes they’ve heard him use the n word, including Earl Watson. The article details Watson’s story and later says a half dozen members of the organization reported hearing him use it. There was at least 1 other example of a specific time given. None of this includes Jalen’s story, though that one is less certain of its validity.

[pickle]

Also kind of hard to defend what Penny Sarver did...

[Drewsprocket]

I obviously haven't been following this thread closely but have some quick questions:

(1) Has there been any real validation of Sarver using the n-word? I see this being thrown around and don't recall there being any corroboration. But I'll gladly be corrected if there's any real evidence.

(2) Of course Penny Sarver is freaking out. Why should we hold this again her?

(3) I like the idea of a minority owner taking over as Governor and like Jahm Najifi quite a bit more than Sarver. But what are the mechanisms that could make this happen?

I also don't like how this issue is fracturing the board, and agree with the folks who say that this just isn't any fun whatsoever.

Penny? Is this you again? No one is destroying your family. If it’s a hatchet job, your hubby supplied the hatchets. At the end of the day your family will still be millionaires.

[Drewsprocket]

Also kind of hard to defend what Penny Sarver did...

It’s beyond parody. You’d think people could never be this stupid. What’s next? Sarver caught burning hard drives in the staff parking lot? This is like some Cohen Brothers movie shit.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I’ve avoided posting in this thread, at first because the article itself lacks hard evidence. Then I came and go between hachet job, power coup and torch that POS.

Reading you guys didn’t help either, most are torching the guy in advance, taking every bit of info to build a bonfire, some are declaring it unsubstantial, or awful but not bad enough to lost the team. But it came from within, not from a fairly constructed judgement.

But the sad part is that ONE man is taking away some poster’s fanhood.

I’m not here to read and discuss about the Phoenix Sarvers, neither the Sarver Suns, that guy DO NOT REPRESENT ME, neither does represent the guys on the court. My images from Phoenix are built trough your eyes as residents, and the my images from the team, are built through CP3, Book, Mikal, and the rest of the crew.

It’s awful what is happening, and don’t want to brush it off under the rug, but I hope we can take a page from the team’s handbook and keep focused on the court, I will trust the NBA on performing due diligence and reaching fair conclusions on this, because there is smoke, but there’s also some fishy smell around all this.

Like a mexican citizen, I was really aware of your past President and his views on my country, complex issue I won’t talk about it here, but there’s is a reason I never step up on your politics threads, and that’s because it’s no my place to talk, but most important: I don’t want to relate with you on that way, my job is deeply entrenched on mexican politics, and it’s toxic enough for me to deal with. Sadly, modern politics are probably on an all time low world wide on quality, so it’s better to leave it outside the things we like.

And I like you guys, a lot, and I love my team.

This thread is not about politics, but it’s having a toxic effect on us, there was a game with more comments here, that the game thread. Think about it, perhaps we should take this conversation off the sports forum.

Just my two cents.

[pickle]

I don't think the situation is as dire as you describe. Most of us here are long time fans and we already hate Sarver for all the penny pinching. This expose may come as a shocker to most non-Suns fans and casual followers of the league, but I daresay it doesn't shock most of us here. The comments have mostly been on the order of "how does this impact the team going forward" and "this makes me want to follow the team less." Don't know that this article is really creating a chasm down the middle of the board.

At least this discussion doesn't spill over to the other threads like the Ayton extension topic does...

[Nodack]

NEW STORY from Baxter Holmes:

Penny Sarver, wife of Robert Sarver, sent messages to three former Phoenix Suns employees
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/325 ... -employees

"This is Penny Sarver," one message began. "I know a lot of bridges were burned between you and Robert and you are very bitter. I want to remind you that real lives are at stake here."

Later, the message added, "Please put your hatred aside and realize the hurt you are causing by spreading lies and fabrications. Is your time in the spotlight that important? If something happens to one of my children, I will hold you and Earl Watson personally responsible. Think about your own child for a second and imagine the tables turned."

And yet she claims: "Any suggestion that I tried to 'intimidate' anyone is as silly as it is wrong and outrageous."

LOL.

From her perspective they are lying and fabricating these stories to hurt her husband, which hurts her family too. She doesn’t say I will hunt you down and kill you. She says she will hold them responsible. GM has had my car in their dealer parking lot for two months waiting for repairs. I hold them responsible. That doesn’t mean I am threatening them or intimidating them. Not a smart move by her I guess but, from her email she clearly doesn’t believe they are telling the truth. She would only get the perspective her husband gives her since she probably has no first hand knowledge and therefore doesn’t really tell us anything. If he was guilty he probably didn’t tell her the truth and if he is innocent and told her that, it is still just hearsay. She has lived with him for many years and she probably knows him better than anyone else on earth.

[virtual9mm]

Thanks for the update, gents. If Sarver admitted to using the N-word, it is a game changer.

Drew -- if you want to make it personal, go ahead. But the mods should step in at that point.

[Superbone]

NEW STORY from Baxter Holmes:

Penny Sarver, wife of Robert Sarver, sent messages to three former Phoenix Suns employees
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/325 ... -employees

"This is Penny Sarver," one message began. "I know a lot of bridges were burned between you and Robert and you are very bitter. I want to remind you that real lives are at stake here."

Later, the message added, "Please put your hatred aside and realize the hurt you are causing by spreading lies and fabrications. Is your time in the spotlight that important? If something happens to one of my children, I will hold you and Earl Watson personally responsible. Think about your own child for a second and imagine the tables turned."

And yet she claims: "Any suggestion that I tried to 'intimidate' anyone is as silly as it is wrong and outrageous."

LOL.

From her perspective they are lying and fabricating these stories to hurt her husband, which hurts her family too. She doesn’t say I will hunt you down and kill you. She says she will hold them responsible. GM has had my car in their dealer parking lot for two months waiting for repairs. I hold them responsible. That doesn’t mean I am threatening them or intimidating them. Not a smart move by her I guess but, from her email she clearly doesn’t believe they are telling the truth. She would only get the perspective her husband gives her since she probably has no first hand knowledge and therefore doesn’t really tell us anything. If he was guilty he probably didn’t tell her the truth and if he is innocent and told her that, it is still just hearsay. She has lived with him for many years and she probably knows him better than anyone else on earth.

The perceived threat is in this statement:

“Think about your own child for a second and imagine the tables turned."

As in, if anything happens to my family, I will come after yours.

[Indy]

It is witness tampering in an active investigation, even if she didn't mean that last part as a threat.

[SunsRIt]

NEW STORY from Baxter Holmes:

Penny Sarver, wife of Robert Sarver, sent messages to three former Phoenix Suns employees
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/325 ... -employees

"This is Penny Sarver," one message began. "I know a lot of bridges were burned between you and Robert and you are very bitter. I want to remind you that real lives are at stake here."

Later, the message added, "Please put your hatred aside and realize the hurt you are causing by spreading lies and fabrications. Is your time in the spotlight that important? If something happens to one of my children, I will hold you and Earl Watson personally responsible. Think about your own child for a second and imagine the tables turned."

And yet she claims: "Any suggestion that I tried to 'intimidate' anyone is as silly as it is wrong and outrageous."

LOL.

From her perspective they are lying and fabricating these stories to hurt her husband, which hurts her family too. She doesn’t say I will hunt you down and kill you. She says she will hold them responsible. GM has had my car in their dealer parking lot for two months waiting for repairs. I hold them responsible. That doesn’t mean I am threatening them or intimidating them. Not a smart move by her I guess but, from her email she clearly doesn’t believe they are telling the truth. She would only get the perspective her husband gives her since she probably has no first hand knowledge and therefore doesn’t really tell us anything. If he was guilty he probably didn’t tell her the truth and if he is innocent and told her that, it is still just hearsay. She has lived with him for many years and she probably knows him better than anyone else on earth.

The perceived threat is in this statement:

“Think about your own child for a second and imagine the tables turned."

As in, if anything happens to my family, I will come after yours.

I think she sees it as a pack of lies made up to harm her husband, and this will trickle down to her children. Any mom would want to protect her children.

[Indy]

If your dad is a racist/misogynist then you must be too? Seems like a weird thing to be worried about. It sounds like she is looking out for herself, not her kids.

But I am sure it is a very scary time for her and a ton of people inside the Suns.

[SunsRIt]

If your dad is a racist/misogynist than you must be too? Seems like a weird thing to be worried about. It sounds like she is looking out for herself, not her kids.

I’m just curious. Do you make it a point to disagree with everything I say? Even something a simple as a basic instinct from a mother to protect her children?