Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Ya I’m pretty out of touch with anything before kJ/Barkley so you can’t trust anything I say about players before then, haha
- LazarusLong
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:58 pm
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
I'm older than dirt, so I'm out of touch with most of the world ...
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?
- The Bobster
- Posts: 6850
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
1 - Barkley Nash
2 - K. Johnson, Westphal, Hawkins, Kidd
3 - Stoudemire, Marion, Booker, Paul, Chambers, Davis, D. Johnson
4 - D. Van Arsdale, Goodrich, Hornacek, Majerle, Adams, C. Scott, Nance, Silas, T. Robinson, Lucas, J. Johnson, Marbury
I'm undoubtedly leaving somebody out.
2 - K. Johnson, Westphal, Hawkins, Kidd
3 - Stoudemire, Marion, Booker, Paul, Chambers, Davis, D. Johnson
4 - D. Van Arsdale, Goodrich, Hornacek, Majerle, Adams, C. Scott, Nance, Silas, T. Robinson, Lucas, J. Johnson, Marbury
I'm undoubtedly leaving somebody out.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
- LazarusLong
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:58 pm
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
I like that you put Hawkins in the second tier.
Most latter day Suns fans don't realize what an impact The Hawk had on the franchise.
Most latter day Suns fans don't realize what an impact The Hawk had on the franchise.
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?
- The Bobster
- Posts: 6850
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
1 - MVP level
2 - All-NBA perennials
3 - All-Star perennials
4 - Borderline All-Stars
Hawkins was clearly one of the best players in the NBA his first couple of years until the miles caught up with him.
2 - All-NBA perennials
3 - All-Star perennials
4 - Borderline All-Stars
Hawkins was clearly one of the best players in the NBA his first couple of years until the miles caught up with him.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
And that started after his prime.The Bobster wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:00 pm1 - MVP level
2 - All-NBA perennials
3 - All-Star perennials
4 - Borderline All-Stars
Hawkins was clearly one of the best players in the NBA his first couple of years until the miles caught up with him.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- The Bobster
- Posts: 6850
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
If I had to rank them by how good they were at their best as a Sun -
Barkley
Nash
Hawkins
Westphal
Paul
K. Johnson
Kidd
Stoudemire
Davis
Booker
Marion
Nance
Adams
Chambers
D. Johnson
Barkley
Nash
Hawkins
Westphal
Paul
K. Johnson
Kidd
Stoudemire
Davis
Booker
Marion
Nance
Adams
Chambers
D. Johnson
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Yes, Connie Hawkins, forgot about him. Too young to have ever seen him play. Funny story though, he was the first suns player I ever met. He was at my elementary school for some reason, I was like 7 or 8 and he signed my t-shirt. I had no clue who he was at the time and am saddened to say that I have no clue what happened to that shirt. That would have been a cool thing to have.
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Don't worry. He's before my time too as I don't recall watching him play. Although, I did read Foul! The Connie Hawkins Story as a kid.Split T wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:30 pmYes, Connie Hawkins, forgot about him. Too young to have ever seen him play. Funny story though, he was the first suns player I ever met. He was at my elementary school for some reason, I was like 7 or 8 and he signed my t-shirt. I had no clue who he was at the time and am saddened to say that I have no clue what happened to that shirt. That would have been a cool thing to have.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- The Bobster
- Posts: 6850
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
The Hawk was even before my time!
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
I took out the guys before my time, and did my ranking the same way you did (judging 'best' as their best full season with us). I was really surprised to see where Booker landed, because I think he has the capacity to be the best Sun ever, or at least top 3.The Bobster wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:14 pmIf I had to rank them by how good they were at their best as a Sun -
Barkley
Nash
Hawkins
Westphal
Paul
K. Johnson
Kidd
Stoudemire
Davis
Booker
Marion
Nance
Adams
Chambers
D. Johnson
Barkley
Nash
Paul
K. Johnson
Stoudemire
Marion
Booker
Kidd
Chambers
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
I'm pretty sure your time is the same as my time. (Within months even.)
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- The Bobster
- Posts: 6850
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Most likely. I took notice during the 1975-76 playoffs, but I really didn't start watching intently until the 1977-78 season. Didn't actually attend a game until 1979 when I got my driver's license.
My most vivid memory of those early years is always going to the end of the concourse (where it narrowed at each end of the Coliseum) where they would have tables set up with merchandise. I remember getting my first NBA Guide there (the 1980-81 edition).
We also used to make trips to the Suns' offices on Central to visit the "team shop" there and get things like posters and shirts.
We used to "Ooooooh" and "Ahhhhh" over Jerry Colangelo's Jag parked in the parking lot.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Not sure I’d change a thing. Probably leave Chambers off as his best years were before my time. Stoudemire/KJ/Paul trio is hard to rank. All seem to be pretty even. I think I agree with Paul as first among them as he was more crucial to his team than the others were to theirs.Indy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:57 pmI took out the guys before my time, and did my ranking the same way you did (judging 'best' as their best full season with us). I was really surprised to see where Booker landed, because I think he has the capacity to be the best Sun ever, or at least top 3.The Bobster wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:14 pmIf I had to rank them by how good they were at their best as a Sun -
Barkley
Nash
Hawkins
Westphal
Paul
K. Johnson
Kidd
Stoudemire
Davis
Booker
Marion
Nance
Adams
Chambers
D. Johnson
Barkley
Nash
Paul
K. Johnson
Stoudemire
Marion
Booker
Kidd
Chambers
Think I’d put Amare over KJ though. Just barely. That level he reached in the 05 playoffs before his knee surgeries was insane. JJ is the obvious big what if from back then, but what if Amare never had knee problems? He was on a potential mvp path. He was like a 22 year old 3rd year player matching prime Duncan in the playoffs.
He averaged 30 and 11 with 2 blocks on .619 TS and averaged over 12 fta per game that postseason. Against SA he was 37/10 and shot 55% from the field. He was such a special athlete.
- The Bobster
- Posts: 6850
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Let's not forget that for his first four years here, KJ averaged 21.2 points, 11.1 assists, shot 50% from the field and 84% from the line, was All-NBA 2nd Team 3 times and All- NBA 3rd Team 1 time.
And the Suns won 55, 54, 55 and 53 games those seasons with the ball in his hands the majority of the time.
And the Suns won 55, 54, 55 and 53 games those seasons with the ball in his hands the majority of the time.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Yes I was strictly talking on an at their peak basis…not talking careers. For careers, I think my teams go:
1st Team
G: Nash and KJ
F: Marion and Barkley
C: Amare
2nd Team
G: Westphal and Booker
F: Davis and Hawkins
C: Adams
3rd Team
G: Kidd and CP3
F: Chambers and Nance
C: Ayton
Booker will take KJ’s spot at some point on the 1st team and Paul will probably take Westphal’s spot on the 2nd team. Ayton will also probably move up to 2nd team soon if he stays around. Bridges will make these lists if he at least finishes out his next contract here. Got 2nd team potential as well.
So one day it’ll look like this:
1st Team
G: Nash and Booker
F: Marion and Barkley
C: Amare
2nd Team
G: CP3 and KJ
F: Davis and Bridges
C: Ayton
3rd Team
G: Westphal and Kidd
F: Hawkins and Chambers
C: Adams or Nance
1st Team
G: Nash and KJ
F: Marion and Barkley
C: Amare
2nd Team
G: Westphal and Booker
F: Davis and Hawkins
C: Adams
3rd Team
G: Kidd and CP3
F: Chambers and Nance
C: Ayton
Booker will take KJ’s spot at some point on the 1st team and Paul will probably take Westphal’s spot on the 2nd team. Ayton will also probably move up to 2nd team soon if he stays around. Bridges will make these lists if he at least finishes out his next contract here. Got 2nd team potential as well.
So one day it’ll look like this:
1st Team
G: Nash and Booker
F: Marion and Barkley
C: Amare
2nd Team
G: CP3 and KJ
F: Davis and Bridges
C: Ayton
3rd Team
G: Westphal and Kidd
F: Hawkins and Chambers
C: Adams or Nance
- The Bobster
- Posts: 6850
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Booker doesn't have the resume yet though. He hasn't been named All-NBA yet and has been an injury replacement All-Star twice. So I'm not saying he's going to finish ahead of KJ, Westphal, Kidd or Davis at this point.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Side note: Is any other franchise as loaded at guard as we are? Specifically pg? If you got specific with positions, we’d have Jason Kidd as our 4th string pg in franchise history. Then you still have Marbury, Dragic, IT, Rubio. I might do some research and be back with an interesting (at least to me ) post.
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
Fair, I think those will come, he’s only played on one good suns team and those awards go to players on good teams. I’m also expecting a very long Suns career for him. I fully expect him to be the all time scoring leader in suns history when it’s all said and done. He’s already 8th and will pass Nash and Amare this year. I won’t say he finishes 1st all time in assists, but that’s within reach as well if he’s here long enough. He’ll for sure be the 3 point leader all time, but that’s mostly a product of era. Outside shot at being the career ppg leader. He’s currently 3rd.The Bobster wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:46 pmBooker doesn't have the resume yet though. He hasn't been named All-NBA yet and has been an injury replacement All-Star twice. So I'm not saying he's going to finish ahead of KJ, Westphal, Kidd or Davis at this point.
- LazarusLong
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:58 pm
Re: Game Day: Suns (10-3) vs Mavericks (9-4), Wed 17-NOV-2021
... and then there are Gail Goodrich and Charlie Scott, both of whom won titles after leaving the Suns.Split T wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:47 pmSide note: Is any other franchise as loaded at guard as we are? Specifically pg? If you got specific with positions, we’d have Jason Kidd as our 4th string pg in franchise history. Then you still have Marbury, Dragic, IT, Rubio. I might do some research and be back with an interesting (at least to me ) post.
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?