Suns News: Week 9 12/22-12/28

[INFORMER]

We get that Bledsoe is an imperfect player to have but come on now. There is a much better candidate if you want to alleviate the logjam at PG.

From my point of view, the impetus isn't just to reduce the number of point guards. And I would target Bledsoe for the following reasons:

1) There really isn't a circumstance that I would want Bledsoe on his current deal.
2) I think the Suns are a better team with Dragic taking the lead.
3) I think Isaiah Thomas is a better value than Bledsoe. Keeping him over Bledsoe gives the team more flexibility to address critical needs.

But we've been through all of this before.

I will add that I'm not saying Thomas is untouchable. I would prefer to keep him, but I would also move him for a tantalizing offer.

[Nodack]

Don't mind me. I am overly sensitive in this area. Always have been. It's a message board fan site. There are no rules on what you can talk about and there shouldn't be. Who am I to tell people what they should talk about? I have annoyed plenty of people over the years myself talking about this. I'll just avoid the threads where there is trade talk. No biggie.

[Ring_Wanted]

I am not opposed to move Bledsoe. What I wanted was not losing him for nothing. I am no fanboy. But his presence on the team under his contract doesn't irk me, so if I entertain a move I'd want back what could be considered league wide fair value. Olynyk is a skilled stretch 4 for the next 10 years, but by himself he is not enough for Bledsoe.

Btw, if having Dragic dominate the ball is a goal, keeping IT3 instead is a pretty counterproductive idea. I think I haven't seen a bigger black hole on the Suns since Marbury, leaving aside stupid chuckers. Bledsoe is way more complementary to Dragic and also capable of scoring 20 any given night. He is more expensive for sure, but I guess that's what trend to happen with real two way players.

But yes, we have gone through this already, multiple times actually.

[INFORMER]

Has anybody ever considered being a fan of the team we have and to let the actual Suns front office worry about trades?

Nodack, it seems as though you're looking for cheerleading, not fandom.

How many posts do you see with posters suggesting ways to improve the Utah Jazz? Or the Charlotte Hornets? Or the New York Knicks? Not many, if any at all. And why is that? Because we don't care. Those teams don't matter to us. But the Suns do.

I take it most here have been Suns fans through multiple eras, be it the Barkley, Kidd, Marbury, Nash, or the Dragic era. So that would imply that one's interest in the team goes beyond just the current players on the team, because players on the team change from year to year. So there has to be investment that goes beyond who is currently wearing a Suns uniform. And if the investment goes beyond who is currently wearing a Suns uniform, then it doesn't seem necessary that a "fan" like any or all of the players that currently are on the team.

The exception to the above is someone who believes that anything and everything the Suns do is good. If that is your outlook, so be it. But a reasonable person has to acknowledge that there are some who have opinions and philosophies about players, management, coaching, team-building, and would like to see their team abide by those opinions and philosophies. Ultimately, though, any fan wants their team to succeed. There is room for variance on what constitutes success in the NBA, but when whatever established standard for success is being met, most fans year for improvement. And some are invested enough to think and talk about how to bring about that improvement. It's better than just sitting around and complaining about the status quo.

Nodack, I don't think anyone will chastise you for not coming up with or discussing trade scenarios. So why should you condemn others for coming up with trade scenarios or discussing them? Moreover, I don't see why the presence of trade talk should prohibit you from posting. Post what you want to talk about. If you want to say what you appreciate about Eric Bledsoe's most recent performance, or what you value about Miles Plumlee, or what you like that Isaiah Thomas brings to the team, go for it. No one is stopping you. If you want to talk about why or how much you love Ryan McDonough, go ahead. Someone might disagree with one or more of the points you make, but that's the nature of discussion.

And to be clear, I'm not saying you must love trade talk. And I'm not censuring the expression of annoyance over trade talk. But I am responding. And I am encouraging a little more tolerance and understanding, or at least suggesting that you reevaluate your expectations of posters and this board.

[INFORMER]

Btw, if having Dragic dominate the ball is a goal, keeping IT3 instead is a pretty counterproductive idea. I think I haven't seen a bigger black hole on the Suns since Marbury, leaving aside stupid chuckers. Bledsoe is way more complementary to Dragic and also capable of scoring 20 any given night. He is more expensive for sure, but I guess that's what trend to happen with real two way players.

This may be quibbling over semantics, but I think there is a difference between dominating the ball and being the teams primary ball-handler and offense initiator. I don't have a problem with Dragic playing off the ball some, and I don't have a problem with Isaiah Thomas's role now. Dealing Bledsoe doesn't mean Thomas has to be graduated to playing 35 minutes a night, or even that he has to start next to Dragic.

[Ring_Wanted]

Btw, if having Dragic dominate the ball is a goal, keeping IT3 instead is a pretty counterproductive idea. I think I haven't seen a bigger black hole on the Suns since Marbury, leaving aside stupid chuckers. Bledsoe is way more complementary to Dragic and also capable of scoring 20 any given night. He is more expensive for sure, but I guess that's what trend to happen with real two way players.

This may be quibbling over semantics, but I think there is a difference between dominating the ball and being the teams primary ball-handler and offense initiator. I don't have a problem with Dragic playing off the ball some, and I don't have a problem with Isaiah Thomas's role now. Dealing Bledsoe doesn't mean Thomas has to be graduated to playing 35 minutes a night, or even that he has to start next to Dragic.

IT3 is extremely ball dominant. He dribbles, hesitates, changes directions, etc and won't give the rock up unless absolutely needed. And if it's not an assist situation, usually he'll demand it back instantly. He has pick and roll ability but creating for others is way down in his priority list compared to scoring on his own.

If you have IT3 on the floor, his game is all about having the ball, period. If he doesn't, he just stands there watching. I don't know where that idea that he can play off the ball came from. Just because he scores doesn't make him well suited to be an off guard, unlike Dragic. But if you have IT, there is little free flowing so Dragic actually gets marginalized, unlike with Bledsoe who turns out is a more willing passer.

And about his current role, IT3's clearly not satisfied with it, with good reason I might add since he is delivering and is clearly a starter caliber guard, but you can't play him alongside Dragic. As the season has pregressed, there is not one 5 man unit among the top20 for the Suns that features Dragic and IT3, and it's no mistery why.

To me the choice is simple. Trade Thomas, add more balance (Brandan Wright+, for instance).

[Zeratul]

Maybe David Gilmore would be a better fit, but would Lifeson fit in with Pink Floyd?

First Pink Floyd would have to trade Gilmour for Gilmore which could be interesting. I don't think Gilmore sings however so they'd have to bring Roger Waters back, which would be awesome.

Oh and please no Bledsoe for Olynyk trade, I would rather see IT go as the PG rotation was fine before he got here...

[INFORMER]

The Suns went 3-5 when Thomas didn't play. That hardly lends credence to the "Isaiah Thomas ruined everything" camp.

[INFORMER]

If you have IT3 on the floor, his game is all about having the ball, period. If he doesn't, he just stands there watching. I don't know where that idea that he can play off the ball came from. Just because he scores doesn't make him well suited to be an off guard, unlike Dragic.

Thomas is solid in catch and shoot situations and he has the ability, if playing off the ball and the ball is swung to him, to make a quick dribble move and create a scoring opportunity. Do you make it his primary role? Absolutely not.

He has certain (negative) tendencies, yes. But the negative absolutes you state about Thomas are largely exaggerations.

[Ring_Wanted]

I am not exaggerating anything. I've watched all the games and that's what's on the floor. And please, stop playing the exaggeration card when you are one of the masters of hyperbole.

Those 'certain tendencies' is what his game is based on. That's the kind of player he is. And he is pretty good at it, but the thing is that Phoenix has two guys who can do what he does as a PG, and another guy who can play his role as microwave in Green.

[Superbone]

Nodack, I think everybody here wants the best for the Suns. One of the ways some fans express that is with trades that they think will improve their favorite team. It's pretty harmless really isn't it if the Suns don't read them and act on them? If they bother you, just skip them. I like your presence and your energy.

Too bad nobody can actually win a battle of the bands. Maybe then we'd hear about more band trade scenarios.

[INFORMER]

Independent of our discussion of Isaiah Thomas, what's funny is that Eric Bledsoe this season is playing like a slightly worse version of Kyle Lowry yet he got paid more than Lowry without any other offers on the table and more injury risk.

[Superbone]

To be fair though, Lowry isn't jostling with two other prime time point guards. But I agree with you regarding the money.

[INFORMER]

I am not exaggerating anything. I've watched all the games and that's what's on the floor.

I remember last season a poster over at RealGM that swore every game that PJ Tucker was the worse player on the team and the Suns would be so much better without him. He too watched all the games. I'm not saying you're as way off as he was, but the whole "I watch all the games therefore my point is correct" argument always reminds me of him. That's neither here nor there, I guess.

And please, stop playing the exaggeration card when you are one of the masters of hyperbole.

Am I?! Interesting. I've never really considered myself master of anything, so I guess I should take this without a second thought.

And you order me to stop playing the exaggeration card, as if I play it often. Do I? I wasn't aware. Or perhaps I'm reading too much into that order.

and another guy who can play his role as microwave in Green

True. I think one could argue that there isn't a need for two microwaves, although that duo has been responsible for a couple of Ws already in this relatively young season. Consider to that many think of Green as good as gone after the season, if he's not traded before hand, so Green's presence probably shouldn't make Thomas automatically expendable. Just a thought.

[INFORMER]

To be fair though, Lowry isn't jostling with two other prime time point guards.

DeMar Derozan isn't exactly a catch and shoot guy either though. So it's not like Lowry doesn't play with another player who can dominate the ball. Plus, they play with Vasquez at the point and shot-taking machine Lou Williams.

On the other hand, Derozan has missed several games, which has boosted Lowry's usage.

[Ring_Wanted]

I only had lo look one post above the one where you spoke about exaggeration to find one example. 'That hardly lends credence to the "Isaiah Thomas ruined everything" camp.' Yeah, totally accurate description of the reality right there. And I've seen you talk about people deifying McD and probably wouldn't take a lot of time to find more examples, if I was interested in spending time in searching through your posts, which I am certainly not. I'll leve this at 'you make plenty of exaggerations, like everybody else'.

As for the 'I watch the games' argument, well, if you don't see Thomas' hogging the ball I don't know what to say. The phenom is there and it's only a matter or personal tolerance to it to qualify as excessive or acceptable. One difference with that guy on realGM is that I give credit to IT3 regularly when he deserves it whereas all he could see was Tucker's TOs and bonehead offensive plays.

About IT3-Green, to me just one is indeed enough although I've applauded them when they have won us those games. If I had my choice, I'd move Thomas and resign Green if the money is not stupid. Doing so also helps opening time for Ennis, who despite not being anyone's top choice at #18, looks like a solid prospect.

[SDC]

There is a much better candidate if you want to alleviate the logjam at PG.

i wonder if the clippers will trade hawes for IT?

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6544176

[Ring_Wanted]

They've got Jamal and Jordan Farmar.

[OE32]

From where I stand, I'm not terribly happy with any of the PG's. IT is a ballhog, but he can shoot and get inside, and I've been pleasantly surprised with his D. Goran's in his prime and will be paid like it, and I don't like how he so rarely passes it to Alex, in particular, but he's the most well-rounded of the 3 for sure. Bled can be a beast defensively - not always, sometimes his energy is of the unproductive variety - and he's not a selfish player, but too often he can't hold on to the ball, which is maddening.

Watching KJ, then Kidd, then Nash, will sure spoil ya. None of these guys have the IQ that those three had. The closest is Dragic.

The reason I'm down for keeping IT over the other two is because I think he'd be the easiest to squeeze out in favor of another future starter - Ennis. INF thinks we've not seen enough of him to have developed an opinion, but I think basketball IQ is something that shines through. Ennis has the intelligence, is unselfish, is developing as a shooter, and has the body to be a quality defender. He's also closer in age to Warren and Len - who are, IMO,the true cornerstones of any championship team we're likely to field in the not-too-distant future. Based on what I've seen of their seasons, I'd put Ennis ahead of Elfrid Payton.

So, that's why I'm okay with losing all three of the Hydra. I think we can get good value for Goran. For Bled, too, but we can wait a season to pull that trigger if we want. IT, however, can carry us through our transition to Ennis with that supremely reasonable contract. It helps that he's fun to watch and that I like him as a player.

[ShelC]

1) There really isn't a circumstance that I would want Bledsoe on his current deal.
2) I think the Suns are a better team with Dragic taking the lead.
3) I think Isaiah Thomas is a better value than Bledsoe. Keeping him over Bledsoe gives the team more flexibility to address critical needs.

On 1, on the whole you're right. But this isn't 2005 either. The cap is going up, 14mil a year isn't that crazy an amount of money for a 24 yr old PG who still has a very high ceiling. On 2, I agree Goran's a better floor general and maybe has a higher bball IQ. But even if the suns are a better team with Dragic taking the lead, where does that get us? Further than where Bledsoe could get us if he were the only lead guard? 3, of course IT3 is a better value, but a better talent?

Comparing Lowry and Bledsoe on the court is easy because they are pretty similar, but to compare numbers is silly. Bledsoe is splitting time with 2 other starting PGs. Lowry is the sole PG on his team. Greivis is playing now only because DeRozan is out but he's not even impacting Lowry. I think Bledsoe is a 24 and 8 guy easily if he's getting 35mpg and the lead guard. And you can talk about injuries but Lowry had the same rap until last year.

I'm not a proponent of keeping one over the other because I think if we can figure it out we have a really dynamic backcourt. But I also think they have such different styles that you'd have to build different types of teams around each if they're the lead guard.

I don't think either is a #1 guy on a team but could be a phenomenal #2. And I hate to say it, but I think Bledsoe and Melo would actually be a pretty lethal combination. Melo needs a guard that can break down a defense and take the pressure off him. Then you put shooters and defenders around those guys. With Dragic, I think you go with more of a motion/pick and roll with shooters and transition players.

Thomas is what he is. He's a scoring guard who's best suited off the bench. Put him with defenders and rebounders who don't care about shots. Putting him with Green just isn't smart IMO. But if he's going to complain about coming off the bench and become a problem (which I don't think he has so far) then he needs to be moved. Watching him though, I think he genuinely wants to win and plays super hard all the time.