Around the League News - 2022 Offseason Edition

[Superbone]

Dennis Smith Jr. got a chance last year with Portland and continued to prove he can't shoot. And he doesn't bring enough in any other area to offset that deficiency.

Hey, at least he's consistent.

[Split T]

Dennis Smith Jr. got a chance last year with Portland and continued to prove he can't shoot. And he doesn't bring enough in any other area to offset that deficiency.

Dude's been in the league for five years and has a negative WS and negative VORP. Somebody with a Stathead subscription want to tell me how many guys in league history have done that?

There was 472 guys who had a negative career VORP and WS through their first 5 years….but that included people who just played 1 year as well. Only 4 guys in league history have done it and played more games than Dennis Smith(Michael Olowakandi, Emmanuel Mudiay, Bobby Hurley, and Josh Jackson)

Also if you make the cutoff 2000, Josh Jackson has the worst career VORP and the 2nd worst career WS. He might literally be the worst basketball player of all time to actually get significant playing time.

[Shabazz]

Dennis Smith Jr. got a chance last year with Portland and continued to prove he can't shoot. And he doesn't bring enough in any other area to offset that deficiency.

Dude's been in the league for five years and has a negative WS and negative VORP. Somebody with a Stathead subscription want to tell me how many guys in league history have done that?

There was 472 guys who had a negative career VORP and WS through their first 5 years….but that included people who just played 1 year as well. Only 4 guys in league history have done it and played more games than Dennis Smith(Michael Olowakandi, Emmanuel Mudiay, Bobby Hurley, and Josh Jackson)

Also if you make the cutoff 2000, Josh Jackson has the worst career VORP and the 2nd worst career WS. He might literally be the worst basketball player of all time to actually get significant playing time.

I was just reminded a few days ago watching the Summer Suns of a low key atrocious recent Suns memory: watching Josh Jackson suck so freaking bad in summer league going into his sophomore season. It was so deflating.

[Superbone]

Dennis Smith Jr. got a chance last year with Portland and continued to prove he can't shoot. And he doesn't bring enough in any other area to offset that deficiency.

Dude's been in the league for five years and has a negative WS and negative VORP. Somebody with a Stathead subscription want to tell me how many guys in league history have done that?

There was 472 guys who had a negative career VORP and WS through their first 5 years….but that included people who just played 1 year as well. Only 4 guys in league history have done it and played more games than Dennis Smith(Michael Olowakandi, Emmanuel Mudiay, Bobby Hurley, and Josh Jackson)

Also if you make the cutoff 2000, Josh Jackson has the worst career VORP and the 2nd worst career WS. He might literally be the worst basketball player of all time to actually get significant playing time.

I was just reminded a few days ago watching the Summer Suns of a low key atrocious recent Suns memory: watching Josh Jackson suck so freaking bad in summer league going into his sophomore season. It was so deflating.

And Tatum dominate.

[Indy]

Dennis Smith Jr. got a chance last year with Portland and continued to prove he can't shoot. And he doesn't bring enough in any other area to offset that deficiency.

Dude's been in the league for five years and has a negative WS and negative VORP. Somebody with a Stathead subscription want to tell me how many guys in league history have done that?

The 5th year thing makes it a little tricky for the reason Split said, so I just looked at guys that have played at least 200 games and have neg VORP and neg WS.

There are 8 guys that 'accomplished' this in the last 50 years (when we have VORP data) including one of our favorite Suns!

https://stathead.com/tiny/nVZX6

Code: Select all

                                                                                                                                                                             
Rk             Player   WS VORP   FromV      To   Age   G  GS   WS ORtg DRtg  OWS DWS WS/48 OBPM DBPM  BPM VORP  PER ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% Pos         Team
1          Kevin Knox -0.3 -2.7 2018-19 2021-22 19-22 212  61 -0.3   96  115 -2.7 2.3 -.004 -3.0 -1.7 -4.7 -2.7  8.8  2.9 13.8  8.2  6.4  1.0  1.4  9.7 20.2   F       ATLNYK
2    Dennis Smith Jr. -0.6 -0.4 2017-18 2021-22 20-24 216 135 -0.6   95  112 -5.0 4.5 -.005 -1.9 -0.4 -2.3 -0.4 12.2  2.8 10.9  6.7 28.5  2.2  1.3 16.5 25.0   G DALDETNYKPOR
3        Josh Jackson -1.7 -3.1 2017-18 2021-22 20-24 291  92 -1.7   94  113 -6.9 5.2 -.012 -2.9 -0.9 -3.8 -3.1 11.4  4.0 15.0  9.4 12.6  1.8  2.1 13.9 24.5 F-G DETMEMPHOSAC
4     Emmanuel Mudiay -0.2 -2.2 2015-16 2021-22 19-25 302 165 -0.2   96  113 -4.2 4.0 -.001 -1.6 -1.6 -3.2 -2.2 11.8  2.1 11.4  6.7 24.8  1.5  1.0 16.5 24.4   G DENNYKSACUTA
5     Marcus Williams  0.0 -1.0 2006-07 2009-10 21-24 203  10  0.0   94  110 -2.0 2.0 -.001 -1.5 -1.7 -3.3 -1.0 11.0  2.1 11.5  6.8 30.4  1.5  0.2 19.8 21.9   G    GSWMEMNJN
6        Bobby Hurley -1.2 -3.5 1993-94 1997-98 22-26 269  62 -1.2   92  112 -2.9 1.7 -.014 -3.4 -2.0 -5.4 -3.5  8.1  1.5  6.3  3.9 31.2  1.5  0.1 24.9 16.4   G       SACVAN
7    Lancaster Gordon -2.7 -2.2 1984-85 1987-88 22-25 201   6 -2.7   88  113 -3.9 1.2 -.050 -4.0 -1.4 -5.4 -2.2  9.4  4.8  6.3  5.5 16.9  2.3  0.7 15.4 23.9   G          LAC
8          John Duren -0.8 -2.5 1980-81 1982-83 22-24 201  33 -0.8   92  113 -1.4 0.5 -.014 -4.3 -1.0 -5.4 -2.5  6.9  2.1  6.3  4.2 17.2  1.6  0.2 21.0 13.3   G       INDUTA

Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
Generated 7/14/2022.

[JeremyG]

Bobby Hurley…that might explain some things.

[The Bobster]

John Duren was one of the players selected by the Jazz with one of the two first-round picks they got from the Suns in the Truck Robinson trade.

And Josh Jackson. Ungh.

[Wally_West]

In a statement, Foucher said: "I represented Russell Westbrook for 14 years and am proud of our partnership which included a highly successful 2008 draft, a super-max contract and the only renegotiation-and-extend max contract in history. I also supported Russell throughout his rise into a prominent fashion industry figure and recently orchestrated three successive trades on Russell's behalf -- culminating with the trade to his hometown Los Angeles Lakers.

"Each time, teams gave up valuable players and assets to acquire Russell - and each time, a new organization embraced his arrival. We did it together with grace and class.

"Now, with a possibility of a fourth trade in four years, the marketplace is telling the Lakers they must add additional value with Russell in any trade scenario. And even then, such a trade may require Russell to immediately move on from the new team via buyout.

"My belief is that this type of transaction only serves to diminish Russell's value and his best option is to stay with the Lakers, embrace the starting role and support that Darvin Ham publicly offered. Russell is a first-ballot Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame player and will prove that again before he is retired.

"Unfortunately, irreconcilable differences exist as to his best pathway forward and we are no longer working together. I wish Russell and his family the very best."

[Mori Chu]

"My client and I had irreconcilable differences about whether or not he sucks."

[bajanguy008]

[Split T]

What stands out in the early win total #’s?




I like the over on Memphis, Denver, New Orleans, and Sacramento. Under on Clippers and Blazers.

[Superbone]

What about Phoenix? We won 64 and now we're going to turn around an win less than 53?!

[TOO]

Feel like NO is the easiest over I've seen in awhile.

[Cap]

What stands out in the early win total #’s?




I like the over on Memphis, Denver, New Orleans, and Sacramento. Under on Clippers and Blazers.

The lines on BKN, NYK, LAL, and UTA stand out to me.

[Split T]

What stands out in the early win total #’s?




I like the over on Memphis, Denver, New Orleans, and Sacramento. Under on Clippers and Blazers.

The lines on BKN, NYK, LAL, and UTA stand out to me.

Haha, ya way too much uncertainty there for them to put lines up. Feel like the under will be safe almost wherever it is for Utah. I really think single digits could be in play. Probably more like 15, but they will be real bad and really one of the only teams in the west trying to lose. Spurs too, but spurs will have a little more talent I think. And Pop

[SunsRIt]

What stands out in the early win total #’s?




I like the over on Memphis, Denver, New Orleans, and Sacramento. Under on Clippers and Blazers.

No teams projected to win 56 or more seems odd.

[Split T]

That’s usually pretty normal for win total under/overs I think. The real standings usually see more of a spread, but win totals tend to clump to the middle.

[ShelC]

Pretty wild story here...and NO IT DOESN'T INVOLVE OUR DARIO

[Superbone]

Wow. He looks the part.

[In2ition]

He always had a villain look to him. He was compared to the mute henchman of Zod's from Superman 2.