Game Day: Suns (14-12) @ Trail Blazers (6-19), Tues 12/19/23

[In2ition]

I dismissed moving Toumani Camara because I don't think he's more talented than Little or Allen. However, he consistently plays harder than anyone on the Suns right now and that seems to be the biggest issue with this team.

He's more or less exactly what we're missing. He's also been much better than Little this season.

Well, the bright side is that our staff made an excellent pick so late in the draft.

Yay for getting a 2nd round pick right! Something we rarely saw in the 10 years + prior. At the same time, boo for them seeing the talent and just quickly dismissing it as a throw in on the trade.

I don't thinking classifying him as a "throw in" is correct. I think they really valued him but thought they had to include him to get it done. Which does lead to a trading issue this team has had since Ishbia took over where they're too willing to bend in these trade deals. We all know we gave up way too much for a 34 year old (at the time) Durant.

Unfortunately, this is probably closer to the truth.

[Shabazz]

I dismissed moving Toumani Camara because I don't think he's more talented than Little or Allen. However, he consistently plays harder than anyone on the Suns right now and that seems to be the biggest issue with this team.

He's more or less exactly what we're missing. He's also been much better than Little this season.

Well, the bright side is that our staff made an excellent pick so late in the draft.

Yay for getting a 2nd round pick right! Something we rarely saw in the 10 years + prior. At the same time, boo for them seeing the talent and just quickly dismissing it as a throw in on the trade.

I don't thinking classifying him as a "throw in" is correct. I think they really valued him but thought they had to include him to get it done. Which does lead to a trading issue this team has had since Ishbia took over where they're too willing to bend in these trade deals. We all know we gave up way too much for a 34 year old (at the time) Durant.

That’s an issue that pre-dates Ishbia. James Jones seems to miscalculate leverage in many of his moves.

[JNix]

My main problem with the “we need a pg” argument is that it’s clearly not the main problem here. The big problem to in eyes is THEY DONT GIVE A SHIT!! So much of the problems we are seeing, especially on the defensive end is that there is just no effort, no urgency, no heart. They don’t give a shit. That’s a huge problem. This team would be a night and day difference if they just show ounce more effort than they have been. And it’s only getting worst! This whole season is just them regressing.

Would a traditional pg help our offense? Sure. But you can get prime CP3 out there and it wouldn’t mean shit if the whole team just don’t give a shit like they do now. Do the players deserve blame? Absolutely but we need to start asking why they seem not to give a shit. It just lead back to Vogel for me. These players just aren’t buying what he’s selling right now. We are not getting better in any meaningful way, only getting worst. That’s on the coach. This roster, no matter how imperfect, shouldn’t be anywhere near this bad.

I don't buy this. Whenever a team is struggling, somebody will inevitably say, "It's because they just don't want it enough," or, "They just aren't trying," or, "They just don't care." That's not what I'm seeing, and I think it oversimplifies the problem. It looks to me like Book, KD, Allen, and plenty of others are trying just fine to get a win. But every basket is a labor, every play is a chore. It's too taxing to win this way. We aren't playing smart basketball. We've managed to make multiple generational offensive players into inefficient scorers who have to hit contested midrange jumpers almost every play.

Exactly. Every time we score it feels like a relief. So many tough baskets it becomes draining.
Think this is from a lack of flow on offense. Teams with way less talent make the game look easy, we can get there too.

Just feels like there's not enough player and ball movement.

[Superbone]

He's more or less exactly what we're missing. He's also been much better than Little this season.

Well, the bright side is that our staff made an excellent pick so late in the draft.

Yay for getting a 2nd round pick right! Something we rarely saw in the 10 years + prior. At the same time, boo for them seeing the talent and just quickly dismissing it as a throw in on the trade.

I don't thinking classifying him as a "throw in" is correct. I think they really valued him but thought they had to include him to get it done. Which does lead to a trading issue this team has had since Ishbia took over where they're too willing to bend in these trade deals. We all know we gave up way too much for a 34 year old (at the time) Durant.

That’s an issue that pre-dates Ishbia. James Jones seems to miscalculate leverage in many of his moves.

All I know is that the Durant deal didn't get done until Ishbia took over and then we gave up a lot (too much).

[Superbone]

My main problem with the “we need a pg” argument is that it’s clearly not the main problem here. The big problem to in eyes is THEY DONT GIVE A SHIT!! So much of the problems we are seeing, especially on the defensive end is that there is just no effort, no urgency, no heart. They don’t give a shit. That’s a huge problem. This team would be a night and day difference if they just show ounce more effort than they have been. And it’s only getting worst! This whole season is just them regressing.

Would a traditional pg help our offense? Sure. But you can get prime CP3 out there and it wouldn’t mean shit if the whole team just don’t give a shit like they do now. Do the players deserve blame? Absolutely but we need to start asking why they seem not to give a shit. It just lead back to Vogel for me. These players just aren’t buying what he’s selling right now. We are not getting better in any meaningful way, only getting worst. That’s on the coach. This roster, no matter how imperfect, shouldn’t be anywhere near this bad.

I don't buy this. Whenever a team is struggling, somebody will inevitably say, "It's because they just don't want it enough," or, "They just aren't trying," or, "They just don't care." That's not what I'm seeing, and I think it oversimplifies the problem. It looks to me like Book, KD, Allen, and plenty of others are trying just fine to get a win. But every basket is a labor, every play is a chore. It's too taxing to win this way. We aren't playing smart basketball. We've managed to make multiple generational offensive players into inefficient scorers who have to hit contested midrange jumpers almost every play.

Exactly. Every time we score it feels like a relief. So many tough baskets it becomes draining.
Think this is from a lack of flow on offense. Teams with way less talent make the game look easy, we can get there too.

Just feels like there's not enough player and ball movement.

We looked so good and were clicking in the first quarter. What happened after that and why?

[JNix]

We came out with good energy and movement. Players cutting and easy baskets. Feel like we got at least 4-5 layups in the first quarter. As soon as we made some substitutions to the lineup it threw off that momentum and the team never got that movement and slashing back.

I think a lot of it can be attributed to this team not having spent a lot of time together. I also dont feel like a PG is a must for starting unit but we may need a floor general for the bench, help settle the second unit.

Jordan Goodwin has been solid but hes not a pure passing pg, doesn't initiate the offense.

[JeremyG]

Great start.

I love the Blazer broadcast crew. Up there with New Orleans, Minnesota and Brooklyn for me as the best.

Kevin Calabro is one of the best in the business. He was the voice of an old NBA video game I had when I was young, so his voice always brings back memories for me haha.

Of the local guys, it's him, Bob Myers and Ian Eagle for me. Breen and Harlan are obviously great too.

You mean Joel Meyers? Bob is our next GM. It’s amazing to me how similar Joel and Kevin Calabro’s voices are.

[Sunsfanatic76]

The consensus around the league seems to track with this somewhat I believe. This speaks to why we need to add some tough, physical, tenacious and relentless players to our softspoken passive team. We need some tough players that'll ensure accountability amongst the players and fire up and push the team when we take our foot off the gas in games!

[AmareIsGod]

The consensus around the league seems to track with this somewhat I believe. This speaks to why we need to add some tough, physical, tenacious and relentless players to our softspoken passive team. We need some tough players that'll ensure accountability amongst the players and fire up and push the team when we take our foot off the gas in games!

Ayton really left his ghost behind. Seems the team inherited his DominAyton spirit.

[Shabazz]

Great start.

I love the Blazer broadcast crew. Up there with New Orleans, Minnesota and Brooklyn for me as the best.

Kevin Calabro is one of the best in the business. He was the voice of an old NBA video game I had when I was young, so his voice always brings back memories for me haha.

Of the local guys, it's him, Bob Myers and Ian Eagle for me. Breen and Harlan are obviously great too.

You mean Joel Meyers? Bob is our next GM. It’s amazing to me how similar Joel and Kevin Calabro’s voices are.

Whoops. Yes. Meant Joel of course. I like that raspy, excited calling style, I guess.

[Bucktastic365]

The consensus around the league seems to track with this somewhat I believe. This speaks to why we need to add some tough, physical, tenacious and relentless players to our softspoken passive team. We need some tough players that'll ensure accountability amongst the players and fire up and push the team when we take our foot off the gas in games!

Draymond it is!!

[SunsRIt]

Time to turn up Greyson Allen?

One thing we are missing in this is that was the opinion of Kendrick Perkins. When we start caring in the slightest what he had to say?

[AmareIsGod]

Time to turn up Greyson Allen?

One thing we are missing in this is that was the opinion of Kendrick Perkins. When we start caring in the slightest what he had to say?

I mean, was he wrong though?

[Split T]

About Bol Bol being a defensive player of the year candidate? Yes I think he was wrong

[Wally_West]

About Bol Bol being a defensive player of the year candidate? Yes I think he was wrong

This isn’t fair, imo. There’s still ton of season left to play, too early say he couldn’t do it.

Plus Perk has a pretty good track record about being right. I don’t think anyone anywhere can point to a time he was wrong about anything anytime ever.

#BolkeemBolajuwon #BasketBol

[Kryptonic]

About Bol Bol being a defensive player of the year candidate? Yes I think he was wrong

This isn’t fair, imo. There’s still ton of season left to play, too early say he couldn’t do it.

Plus Perk has a pretty good track record about being right. I don’t think anyone anywhere can point to a time he was wrong about anything anytime ever.

#BolkeemBolajuwon #BasketBol

Wally... say it aint so? You're a Bol Bol stan?!?!

Just watching his first quarter minutes the other night told me everything I needed to know about Bol and why he isn't seeing the court. He's unplayable.

[SunsSince92]

About Bol Bol being a defensive player of the year candidate? Yes I think he was wrong

This isn’t fair, imo. There’s still ton of season left to play, too early say he couldn’t do it.

Plus Perk has a pretty good track record about being right. I don’t think anyone anywhere can point to a time he was wrong about anything anytime ever.

#BolkeemBolajuwon #BasketBol

Wally... say it aint so? You're a Bol Bol stan?!?!

Just watching his first quarter minutes the other night told me everything I needed to know about Bol and why he isn't seeing the court. He's unplayable.

Agreed. I'd sooner give Azubuike a chance than give Bol more minutes at this point.

[Wally_West]

About Bol Bol being a defensive player of the year candidate? Yes I think he was wrong

This isn’t fair, imo. There’s still ton of season left to play, too early say he couldn’t do it.

Plus Perk has a pretty good track record about being right. I don’t think anyone anywhere can point to a time he was wrong about anything anytime ever.

#BolkeemBolajuwon #BasketBol

Wally... say it aint so? You're a Bol Bol stan?!?!

Just watching his first quarter minutes the other night told me everything I needed to know about Bol and why he isn't seeing the court. He's unplayable.

Lol I thought the part where I was saying Perk was always right was a dead giveaway my post wasn’t serious haha

[Kryptonic]

About Bol Bol being a defensive player of the year candidate? Yes I think he was wrong

This isn’t fair, imo. There’s still ton of season left to play, too early say he couldn’t do it.

Plus Perk has a pretty good track record about being right. I don’t think anyone anywhere can point to a time he was wrong about anything anytime ever.

#BolkeemBolajuwon #BasketBol

Wally... say it aint so? You're a Bol Bol stan?!?!

Just watching his first quarter minutes the other night told me everything I needed to know about Bol and why he isn't seeing the court. He's unplayable.

Lol I thought the part where I was saying Perk was always right was a dead giveaway my post wasn’t serious haha

LOL... fair.. I've only had one cup of coffee

[SunsSince92]

About Bol Bol being a defensive player of the year candidate? Yes I think he was wrong

This isn’t fair, imo. There’s still ton of season left to play, too early say he couldn’t do it.

Plus Perk has a pretty good track record about being right. I don’t think anyone anywhere can point to a time he was wrong about anything anytime ever.

#BolkeemBolajuwon #BasketBol

Wally... say it aint so? You're a Bol Bol stan?!?!

Just watching his first quarter minutes the other night told me everything I needed to know about Bol and why he isn't seeing the court. He's unplayable.

Lol I thought the part where I was saying Perk was always right was a dead giveaway my post wasn’t serious haha

In all seriousness though, I actually wonder what the plan with Bol was/is? Was there ever a plan that he would play, but once they saw him compete in practice that was quickly shelved, or was this always going to be his role on this team? It just seems like such a strange signing for him to take up a roster spot and contribute nothing.