Game Day: Suns (33-23) @ Rockets (24-31), Friday 2/23/24

[rhylek]

Clippers are really contenders this year but they're waiting for that since 2019.
We might have to wait a year or two to get there. We need continuity.

Still, I got the impression Vogel is using the regular season to experiment, a lot. We're not used to it, it can be disorienting.
This team is definitely looking like they play pick-up game. And I don't think some players would get playing time when they play like shit (I'm talking to you JO...).

[Wally_West]

We should explore a Book-Beal-KD-Bol-Nurk starting line up

Gordon-Allen-Royce-Thad off the bench.

[Superbone]

It goes beyond B2B and missing 2 starters. It's the complete lack of cohesion and structure on either side of the ball. We're 60 games in and still talking about the same stuff. Missing Beal shouldn't have the same impact as missing Steve Nash in the 7SOL days. Even when CP or Book missed games the past 3 years, we still won with our offensive system and defensive effort and fundamentals.

This!

[Superbone]

Which will be traded for scraps. Bank on that.

That's just stinkin' thinkin'.

[Superbone]

Also, Houston missed a FT late, got the offensive rebound with less than 15 seconds and the airhead on their team tried to score instead of killing the clock. KD blocks it and that low IQ complete idiot waste EG freaking loses the ball out of bounds. Game over at that point IMO. Guy is useless with the ball in his hands other than chucking 3's. His handle sucks, his passing sucks, his physique sucks.

Houston tried to give it away but we couldn't help ourselves. Houston's erratic play was the only reason we were even in the game and had a chance. Booker and Durant sure didn't help.

[The Bobster]

I like KD, but at this point if we could get 3 1sts for him, I'd be fine with trading him. Same for Beal, if we could just dump his salary, though I doubt anybody would take it. I think we should just reset and start the long slow rebuilding process. I'd do a fire sale for anybody but Booker.

With Beal's no-trade clause andhistory of injuries he's not going anywhere. So now we're talking about trading Durant and Booker and I don't think to many people here are to keen on trading Booker.

The more realistic option is Ishba totally disregarding the luxury tax and keep burning money.

Vogel's a goner though. If not this year, at some point because he's not part of the solution.

[The Bobster]

Which will be traded for scraps. Bank on that.

They can't really take on more salary, so they'll probably keep it since it'll be a player with a cheap paycheck.

[Superbone]

I was surprised in the 4th when Bol came out but saw that he came right back in. Makes sense now that he needed the rest as Vogel said. Definitely his best game as a Sun by far. Like Durant said, too bad they couldn't celebrate it with him.

[specialsauce]

Also, Houston missed a FT late, got the offensive rebound with less than 15 seconds and the airhead on their team tried to score instead of killing the clock. KD blocks it and that low IQ complete idiot waste EG freaking loses the ball out of bounds. Game over at that point IMO. Guy is useless with the ball in his hands other than chucking 3's. His handle sucks, his passing sucks, his physique sucks.

Yeah. To be honest I'd rather play Saben Lee, and I don't like Saben Lee.

[ShelC]

I like KD, but at this point if we could get 3 1sts for him, I'd be fine with trading him. Same for Beal, if we could just dump his salary, though I doubt anybody would take it. I think we should just reset and start the long slow rebuilding process. I'd do a fire sale for anybody but Booker.

With Beal's no-trade clause andhistory of injuries he's not going anywhere. So now we're talking about trading Durant and Booker and I don't think to many people here are to keen on trading Booker.

The more realistic option is Ishba totally disregarding the luxury tax and keep burning money.

Vogel's a goner though. If not this year, at some point because he's not part of the solution.

The NTC is a killer unless you're trading him to a big market with stars, like the Lakers. Then maybe he'll waive it and OK a trade. Even then we'd be looking at something like DLO, Rui and Gabe Vincent. So less star power, a bit more depth similar to the DA deal.

My issue with Vogel is that I'm not sure his style/philosophy really works. He's a Jim O'Brien disciple, which was an ugly brand of basketball. He won with LA in the bubble because it was the bubble and he had LBJ and a healthy AD then was fired for losing the lockerroom. I just don't get the feeling the players are really buying into his system.

[Gladiator]

Also, Houston missed a FT late, got the offensive rebound with less than 15 seconds and the airhead on their team tried to score instead of killing the clock. KD blocks it and that low IQ complete idiot waste EG freaking loses the ball out of bounds. Game over at that point IMO. Guy is useless with the ball in his hands other than chucking 3's. His handle sucks, his passing sucks, his physique sucks.

Giving up the offensive rebound at that stage really, really annoyed me. That just should not happen at that stage and, to me, was a microcosm of the type of casual, unfocused play that this team presents far too often.

[specialsauce]

I like KD, but at this point if we could get 3 1sts for him, I'd be fine with trading him. Same for Beal, if we could just dump his salary, though I doubt anybody would take it. I think we should just reset and start the long slow rebuilding process. I'd do a fire sale for anybody but Booker.

With Beal's no-trade clause andhistory of injuries he's not going anywhere. So now we're talking about trading Durant and Booker and I don't think to many people here are to keen on trading Booker.

The more realistic option is Ishba totally disregarding the luxury tax and keep burning money.

Vogel's a goner though. If not this year, at some point because he's not part of the solution.

The NTC is a killer unless you're trading him to a big market with stars, like the Lakers. Then maybe he'll waive it and OK a trade. Even then we'd be looking at something like DLO, Rui and Gabe Vincent. So less star power, a bit more depth similar to the DA deal.

My issue with Vogel is that I'm not sure his style/philosophy really works. He's a Jim O'Brien disciple, which was an ugly brand of basketball. He won with LA in the bubble because it was the bubble and he had LBJ and a healthy AD then was fired for losing the lockerroom. I just don't get the feeling the players are really buying into his system.

I like Beal. We can win with him if his injury timing is right and he's healthy in the playoffs. His brand of basketball fits todays league. He's aggressive. He's relentless. He plays with conviction. He's not too cool for the dirt work like KD. Watching KD turn it over and then give up on the play defensively last night was inexcusable.

If we crash and burn and can't figure our shit out...
I'd love to flip KD for a younger up and comer like a Jalen Williams or Chet Holmgren

[TOO]

OKC would probably laugh in our faces.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

"... he had LBJ and a healthy AD then was fired for losing the locker room..."

...and given their inconsistency and often low level of effort, seems the same now to me...clock is ticking. So, assuming Vogel bites it, who do we snag as a replacement? Kevin Young?

VT

[Mori Chu]

I assume we'd replace him with Kevin Young, which would probably just be the players running the show. The guys seem to like Young, but I bet that's because he's the architect of our "go ahead, anybody can bring the ball up, then go straight into an iso" offense.

[TOO]

The players are already running the show, this is what you get. The whole staff needs to go, this team needs a hard ass at HC, someone that makes you play within a system that you can maintain but also holds you accountable. No idea who can do that, but this just let us figure it out shit doesn't work.

[ShelC]

We don't know what Young is or isn't responsible for. We know Vogel and his top assistant Fizdale have never been known for their offensive creativity themselves. Fizdale got completely embarrassed in Memphis and NY.

[TOO]

We do know that as constructed the staff seems like it's underperforming, I'd rather not keep any of them around if at all possible. Hard to believe that if Young had good ideas or a plan with the way the team fluctuates that Vogel would just tune him out.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Hmmm...maybe end of season...Charles Lee?

VT

[Split T]

Jordy Fernandez…I don’t have a problem with the offense other than it’s too slow. If Vogel/Young can get them to play with pace I’m all for it. Jordy is the Kings offensive architect and they definitely play with pace. Helps that they have Fox who’s maybe the fastest player with the ball in the league.