Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!

[Mori Chu]

there is already signs that teams like Houston don't want to touch Booker. With a 75 mil contract, teams will not even speak his name.

Yeah right. Houston would be absolutely giddy if we buckled and agreed to trade Booker to them. They're still holding out hope that they can refuse to trade for KD and get Booker from us instead. They would be delighted with that outcome.

[1tinsoldier]

just to keep things real, i thought you all might like a snapshot of Booker's stats this season:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... s::eek:bpm

Booker is ranked:
43 in Offensive Plus/Minus
138 in Defensive Plus/Minus
39 in Efficiency Rating
53 in Turnover %
102 in Field Goal %
126 in Effective Field Goal %
163 in 3pt %

yet only 11 players have the ball in their hands more than him!
he's ranked 12 in Usage (Booker-Ball)

and, no, his defense rating hasn't improved
his career average is 115.5
now it's 117.4

the only thing he even cracked the top 20 in is Assist %
rated 20

oh, except salary. He's among the top 10 paid basketball players in history

[1tinsoldier]

the reason for the stats, on this New Year's Day
is not to disappoint Booker fans
but to strategize how would could compete for a championship
THIS YEAR!

realistically, even if Green adds the offense we expect, with Booker starting and finishing games together our defense will likely suffer, our offense is likely redundant, and we've got a size issue. How about trading the redundancy for an elite power forward?

people are quick to say we don't have the assets -- because Book is off the table. But that doesn't make sense (now, or in the future with his salary)

my bias aside, and fan bias aside, if Ishbia really wanted to compete for a championship now, the move is to trade our the Suns' most coveted asset for the right piece. There are big names on the market. imagine, for example, a starting lineup including one of these pieces:

Giannis (Booker plus another piece?)
Zion (risky, but even one season with that bulldozer healthy could get this team to the Finals)
Markkanen (Finals is within reach)
Morant (risky, but we've taken similar risks that have paid off)
Austin Reeves (LA is high on Reeves. But they don't think they can win with Lebron, as is)

i'd liken one of those moves to the Suns kicking their season into championship contention when they traded for Barkley

[TOO]

Ishbia isn't trading Booker without a Booker demand.

[Mori Chu]

Good to see you, 1tin. You are critical of Booker again as usual. You listed several stats to make him look bad. But he's also doing several things well this year. He's 16th in the league in scoring with 25.5 ppg, and that's despite looking to pass more. He's also 19th in the league in assists at 6.3. Your stats also matter, but I put less stock in +/- than you seem to. And something tells me if he had an impressive +/- you'd just omit it from your list of stats, since you seemed to cherry-pick only stats in which Booker did not look impressive.

The two that seem legitimate to me are his mediocre defense and high turnovers. But I think he's actually improved on defense this year and he doesn't seem to be a net negative on that side. And the high turnovers (3.4 / game) are somewhat expected since he is playing the point and handling the ball more. So I don't consider either of these to be awful numbers.

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders

Anyway, agree to disagree. I think most of the players you listed would be disasters for the Suns, such as Markkanen or Zion. The fact that you think the Finals would be within reach with Lauri Markkanen is pretty laughable to me, but you do you. I think the only guy on that list I'd trade Booker for would be Giannis, which is an interesting idea, but I think Milwaukee will want picks and younger players for him, and we don't have any picks to offer. I like Ja Morant more than most folks here, but I certainly would not trade Booker for him, or at least not without substantial picks coming our way. And I don't like Reaves very much; decent player but I think he's become overrated, and I don't think he can be your best or second-best guy if you want to contend.

You mention trading for Barkley. But that situation is not much like this one; that was a case where the Suns traded a bunch of quarters for a dollar bill. The best piece we gave away was Jeff Hornacek, a middling SG who had one good season to boost his trade value, and then we sold him at his absolute apex to get a superstar. In this case we'd be the ones selling the Barkley, giving away the superstar for (in most of your example trades) inferior or multiple players.

I'm not dead-set against ever trading Booker, but it'd have to be an absolutely dynamite proposal. And preferably it'd have to bring us some picks back so that we have a better setup for the next decade.

[1tinsoldier]

yes, Mori, i am critical of Book, as usual, because, he is himself, as usual. His points and assists are the same as last year (when he didn't make the all-star team), and his defense is down from his career average. I can enjoy this team, as is, because Brooks, Gillespe, and Allen provide the leadership, Williams is intriguing, and this coach has them playing defense, and is not afraid to call the shots in the clutch instead of going with Booker-ball. Last year that and Durant-ball was a losing combination.

but the stats are irrefutable. And though fans, somehow, manage to look the other way, i don't believe other team managers would. Frankly, the only thing i believe Ishbia is BANKING on is Booker fan's blind-faith, home-grown, home-town appeal. I don't believe any other team would go for his super-max deal.

but if we are SUNS fans first, it is highly relevant to talk about a deal to improve the team. You'll notice that as soon as Laker fans realized that Lebron's presence detracts from team's success, they are calling for the King and, some would say GOAT, to be moved. NY fans are the same. They put the team first and don't indulge superstar ego's for long.

the related stat is that the Suns most often lose when Booker scores big.

[Wally_West]

AYTON FUVKING STINKS!!!!!


Edit: wrong thread, my bad

[Split T]

Booker has the biggest positive offensive impact on the team…the team is also better defensively when he’s on the court this year versus him off the court.

Booker has been pretty disappointing to me lately(especially his 3 point shooting), but this team would really struggle without his usage…unless Jalen Green can come back and be something he’s never been. I love what Gillespie has done(and Brooks), but we will be in a lot of trouble if they are expected to be the focal points of the offense.

I think the biggest problem with your argument 1tin is that you are trying to win a championship this year. We’re not winning one(unless Milwaukee stupidly makes the Giannis trade you mentioned). I’m not opposed to moving Booker further down the road, but I don’t understand the urgency here. This team is vastly surpassing expectations and even while not really playing all that great, Booker has still been our best player. I think you drastically underestimate how much he opens up the game for Gillespie/Brooks/etc.

[Wally_West]

Sorry, 1tin. I’m still trying to get them book 2’s tomorrow! You can’t stop me!!