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Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 12:06 pm
by Superbone
But then there's this:
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 12:12 pm
by Mori Chu
wpmiller42 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 10:07 am
I don't know, 4-years at $90 million really isn't that much nowadays. And if there's a team option for the 4th year, I think that becomes a reasonable contract.
I don't see how any young guy who was thrown under the bus by his coach over and over again, and probably berated by Draymond in practice after practice can really be expected to succeed. I'm not saying he's some elite defender, but I don't think he's worse than average. He's got great size and athleticism at a position of need for us. He can definitely score, and can show he can be a scorer when Curry is out and defenses can focus more on him.
I don't think we should give up significant assets for him, but I could live with Royce and a couple 2nd rounders, and I like Royce quite a bit.
I don't really buy the argument that Golden State "threw Kuminga under the bus." Theirs was a team that badly needed talent to help Steph and Draymond carry the load. They gave Kuminga lots of leeway and lots of chances for years. He has shown flashes but basically is not a guy they could count on. I don't think they mistreated or disrespected him; to the contrary, I think they have been extremely patient with him and have done almost everything possible to put him in a position to grow and eventually succeed there. But it hasn't happened. And I don't think a lot of players consider Steve Kerr to be a stubborn or difficult coach, nor for guys like Curry or Klay to be hard to play with; if you can't get along with these guys, I am suspicious of that. Sure, Draymond is eccentric and moody, but plenty of guys (young and old) have been able to play with him just fine. Overall this is a great org for a young guy to develop in, as evidenced by some of the other guys they've developed and built into rotation players over the years. If Kuminga had "it" I think they would have been happy to let him thrive there.
He might just need a change of scenery, or maybe he's growing and maturing and will be better on his next team. But his recent past performance at Golden State is not encouraging.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 2:50 pm
by Superbone
The Kings throwing oil on the fire:
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 3:00 pm
by Superbone
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 12:12 pm
wpmiller42 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 10:07 am
I don't know, 4-years at $90 million really isn't that much nowadays. And if there's a team option for the 4th year, I think that becomes a reasonable contract.
I don't see how any young guy who was thrown under the bus by his coach over and over again, and probably berated by Draymond in practice after practice can really be expected to succeed. I'm not saying he's some elite defender, but I don't think he's worse than average. He's got great size and athleticism at a position of need for us. He can definitely score, and can show he can be a scorer when Curry is out and defenses can focus more on him.
I don't think we should give up significant assets for him, but I could live with Royce and a couple 2nd rounders, and I like Royce quite a bit.
I don't really buy the argument that Golden State "threw Kuminga under the bus." Theirs was a team that badly needed talent to help Steph and Draymond carry the load. They gave Kuminga lots of leeway and lots of chances for years. He has shown flashes but basically is not a guy they could count on. I don't think they mistreated or disrespected him; to the contrary, I think they have been extremely patient with him and have done almost everything possible to put him in a position to grow and eventually succeed there. But it hasn't happened. And I don't think a lot of players consider Steve Kerr to be a stubborn or difficult coach, nor for guys like Curry or Klay to be hard to play with; if you can't get along with these guys, I am suspicious of that. Sure, Draymond is eccentric and moody, but plenty of guys (young and old) have been able to play with him just fine. Overall this is a great org for a young guy to develop in, as evidenced by some of the other guys they've developed and built into rotation players over the years. If Kuminga had "it" I think they would have been happy to let him thrive there.
He might just need a change of scenery, or maybe he's growing and maturing and will be better on his next team. But his recent past performance at Golden State is not encouraging.
Sounds just like a true Warriors fan.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 3:02 pm
by Superbone
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 3:21 pm
by Split T
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 12:12 pm
wpmiller42 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 10:07 am
I don't know, 4-years at $90 million really isn't that much nowadays. And if there's a team option for the 4th year, I think that becomes a reasonable contract.
I don't see how any young guy who was thrown under the bus by his coach over and over again, and probably berated by Draymond in practice after practice can really be expected to succeed. I'm not saying he's some elite defender, but I don't think he's worse than average. He's got great size and athleticism at a position of need for us. He can definitely score, and can show he can be a scorer when Curry is out and defenses can focus more on him.
I don't think we should give up significant assets for him, but I could live with Royce and a couple 2nd rounders, and I like Royce quite a bit.
I don't really buy the argument that Golden State "threw Kuminga under the bus." Theirs was a team that badly needed talent to help Steph and Draymond carry the load. They gave Kuminga lots of leeway and lots of chances for years. He has shown flashes but basically is not a guy they could count on. I don't think they mistreated or disrespected him; to the contrary, I think they have been extremely patient with him and have done almost everything possible to put him in a position to grow and eventually succeed there. But it hasn't happened. And I don't think a lot of players consider Steve Kerr to be a stubborn or difficult coach, nor for guys like Curry or Klay to be hard to play with; if you can't get along with these guys, I am suspicious of that. Sure, Draymond is eccentric and moody, but plenty of guys (young and old) have been able to play with him just fine. Overall this is a great org for a young guy to develop in, as evidenced by some of the other guys they've developed and built into rotation players over the years. If Kuminga had "it" I think they would have been happy to let him thrive there.
He might just need a change of scenery, or maybe he's growing and maturing and will be better on his next team. But his recent past performance at Golden State is not encouraging.
Golden State wants Kuminga to play a complimentary role. Kerr constantly benched Kuminga without much of an explanation. I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on the situation, but they definitely didn’t view him in the same light he views himself. I don’t agree that they gave him chances…not the chances he wanted at least. Now I do agree that he’s probably better suited for a complimentary role(he should look at Aaron Gordon and try to model his game that way), but players don’t want to accept that until they’ve had a chance to show their game. Golden State didn’t(and won’t) give him that chance. They want him to play off the bench and fill in as a scorer when Jimmy sits.
As for the suns targeting him, I agree with WP that I’m in if it’s Royce and 2nds, as that doesn’t seem like much. I also wouldn’t be offering major assets for him. I think he’s probably not a star, but I think it’s worth the risk to find out…we need to get lucky if the Booker led squad is going to make any noise.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 3:27 pm
by ShelC
Guys like Kuminga are a dime a dozen IMO. MPJ, Michael Beasley, TJ Warren. Do we want a guy thinking he's better than he is, scoring 25ppg on 20 shots and not even being a great defender/rebounder/passer at 6-8 225? That's how bad/mid teams stay where they are. He's perfect for the Kings and I can't see why, after all the cliches the FO and ownership has spit out this offseason about hard work and defense and hustle they'd even entertain this.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 4:11 pm
by Carno
What's up with his shoes being blurred out? New Book 1s that they aren't ready to reveal?
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 5:08 pm
by Mori Chu
Teams' 3-year future rankings. Spoiler: They ranked us last.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 6:45 pm
by TOO
All the Suns rags constantly shit on the Suns now, bsots and valley especially. It's gross, are you even covering the team if you just regurgitate doom and gloom?
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 9:44 pm
by Split T
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 3:27 pm
Guys like Kuminga are a dime a dozen IMO. MPJ, Michael Beasley, TJ Warren. Do we want a guy thinking he's better than he is, scoring 25ppg on 20 shots and not even being a great defender/rebounder/passer at 6-8 225? That's how bad/mid teams stay where they are. He's perfect for the Kings and I can't see why, after all the cliches the FO and ownership has spit out this offseason about hard work and defense and hustle they'd even entertain this.
Bad/mid teams also stay where they are by not adding talent. I think your assessment of Kuminga is likely to be right, but there’s a chance he’s the 2nd scorer we need next to Book…The current team isn’t going to be a contender any time soon…Kuminga is a depressed asset…even if he just is an empty calorie scorer, you gave up nothing to get him.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 9:47 pm
by Split T
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 5:08 pm
Teams' 3-year future rankings. Spoiler: They ranked us last.
Last? Meaning we will be there worst team over the next 3 years or in 3 years we will be the worst team?
The former seems incredibly unlikely with teams like the Jazz, Wizards, and Nets not even trying to win…we’ll certainly be better than them this year and likely next…but maybe they anticipate a blow up and Book trade which could make us being the worst team in the league in 28-29 a real possibility.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 11:06 pm
by Shabazz
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 9:47 pm
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 5:08 pm
Teams' 3-year future rankings. Spoiler: They ranked us last.
Last? Meaning we will be there worst team over the next 3 years or in 3 years we will be the worst team?
The former seems incredibly unlikely with teams like the Jazz, Wizards, and Nets not even trying to win…we’ll certainly be better than them this year and likely next…but maybe they anticipate a blow up and Book trade which could make us being the worst team in the league in 28-29 a real possibility.
It's a formula they use that takes into account cap space, future draft equity, ownership, young talent and front office. Not hard to see why we're last.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2025 11:09 pm
by Shabazz
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 9:44 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 3:27 pm
Guys like Kuminga are a dime a dozen IMO. MPJ, Michael Beasley, TJ Warren. Do we want a guy thinking he's better than he is, scoring 25ppg on 20 shots and not even being a great defender/rebounder/passer at 6-8 225? That's how bad/mid teams stay where they are. He's perfect for the Kings and I can't see why, after all the cliches the FO and ownership has spit out this offseason about hard work and defense and hustle they'd even entertain this.
Bad/mid teams also stay where they are by not adding talent. I think your assessment of Kuminga is likely to be right, but there’s a chance he’s the 2nd scorer we need next to Book…The current team isn’t going to be a contender any time soon…Kuminga is a depressed asset…even if he just is an empty calorie scorer, you gave up nothing to get him.
I get that we're buying low from the trade cost standpoint, but we're also giving him nearly $90M. He immediately loses the "distressed asset" tag at that point. We should be looking for the next Rodney Rogers for Joe Johnson trade, not paying $90M for the privilege of finding out if the Warriors were wrong.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 2:45 am
by JustWinBaby
wpmiller42 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 10:07 am
I don't know, 4-years at $90 million really isn't that much nowadays. And if there's a team option for the 4th year, I think that becomes a reasonable contract.
I don't see how any young guy who was thrown under the bus by his coach over and over again, and probably berated by Draymond in practice after practice can really be expected to succeed. I'm not saying he's some elite defender, but I don't think he's worse than average. He's got great size and athleticism at a position of need for us. He can definitely score, and can show he can be a scorer when Curry is out and defenses can focus more on him.
I don't think we should give up significant assets for him, but I could live with Royce and a couple 2nd rounders, and I like Royce quite a bit.
I agree
It would make us younger and possibly better. I just know that he was a very high draft pick with talent at a position that we have "Potential" talent but not proven talent. Maybe this is a Monty/Ayton thing between Kerr and Kuminga.
Where and when will we be able to get a potential talent like Kuminga?
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 5:32 am
by ShelC
There's talent and there's talent that fits. We had talent the past 2 seasons. Sure we could use some scoring but there are lots of scorers out there. He's not a 4, which is really what we need and he's basically a 30% 3pt shooting SF. So we'll be starting 2 SGs and 2 SFs assuming Dunn is at SF? Not a good recipe.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 6:40 am
by Mori Chu
What exactly is Kuminga really good at? Scoring? I'd rather have Book or Green taking those shots. Shooting? Not an elite shooter, and concerningly bad from 3. His defense is meh. He doesn't really pass or make others better. He's not a "hustle" guy or a great locker room guy. What exactly makes this guy a great asset? Tweener forwards who can score inefficiently are a dime a dozen and are not very net-positive assets, especially on a team that already has way too many guys at those positions.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 7:01 am
by Split T
Take away last year, which was a mess of a season and he’s not been inefficient. He’s had a .600 TS% each of the first 3 years of his career. He gets to the rim, he scores at the rim, and he draws fouls. He’s 6’8, hyper athletic, and still just 22. You want him for what he could be, not what he is. He wouldn’t be available to us if he wasn’t a risk.
I get it if you’d rather just not take the risk, but those are the reasons to be interested.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 8:31 am
by Superbone
Carno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 4:11 pm
What's up with his shoes being blurred out? New Book 1s that they aren't ready to reveal?
That's what I figured.
Re: 2025 Suns Offeason News
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 8:37 am
by TOO
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 7:01 am
Take away last year, which was a mess of a season and he’s not been inefficient. He’s had a .600 TS% each of the first 3 years of his career. He gets to the rim, he scores at the rim, and he draws fouls. He’s 6’8, hyper athletic, and still just 22. You want him for what he could be, not what he is. He wouldn’t be available to us if he wasn’t a risk.
I get it if you’d rather just not take the risk, but those are the reasons to be interested.
I'd rather have taken a shot on Kuminga than Green if given the choice. *shrugs*
At worst I think Kuminga gives you what Oubre did when he was here.