Offseason Review : Is Jeff Hornacek a Bad Influence / Coach?

[Indy]

Fair enough.

[Ring_Wanted]

I believe 13-14 was bright on its own. It was not 2006 or 2010 but you could be proud of being a Suns fan. That squad had quality and synergy. Dragic, Green, Bledsoe, Kieff, even Plumlee all had career seasons, the style was appealing and fun under a rookie and likable coach, there were no character issues at the time and the franchise entered a supposed healthy status with kids, picks and a ton of flexibility.

In my opinion the ugly years surrounding that season actually have the opposite effect. They don't make 13-14 look good by comparison. I think 14-15 casts a shadow over the monster season Dragic had as well as Frye's happy comeback, Green finally getting it, the twins' progress, Miles out of nowhere, etc.

The sad part is the self inducted erectile dysfunction that followed in 14-15.

[Nodack]

Last year was the worst year for me as a Suns fan. They surprised the year before that in a rebuilding year and almost made the playoffs and that was all you could ask for out of that team. The Suns kind of tanking the end of that season when their destiny was their own was sort of a let down, but I wondered if the draft didn't play a role. As a Suns fan I was OK with the season. I expected last years team to be an improvement over that and even was excited about the three guard experiment. I know I was in the minority on that, but oh well. Up until the IT/Dragic trade I thought we were still doing pretty good and had a chance to pull it together, but for reasons mentioned earlier they completely self destructed. As soon as that trade went down I knew the experiment was over along with the season.

I wondered why would they hit the panic button so early and now it appears the locker room was toxic.

Is Hornecek to blame? As coach they always get some blame. I am no NBA expert, but I thought Jeffs decision making was pretty sound last year. I know how soft spoken and mellow he is and maybe that isn't compatible with being a coach. He has to be the pack leader and they have to respect him. It sounds like he let them walk all over him. Barkley used to walk all over Paul Westphal and Westphal let him. Cotton Fitzsimmons used to bench all the starters 2 minutes into the game if he didn't like what he saw and didn't give a rats ass what any of them thought about it. I think that was the whole point. "Don't give me the effort I want and I'll bench all your asses!" That's a coach declaring himself pack leader.

I like Hornecek and loved him as a player. I really can't say at this point whether he is a good or bad coach. He was given a time bomb last season and he wasn't able to diffuse it. Would a stricter coach have been able to corral the Twins and keep the team together and unified? All speculation at this point.

Needless to say the wheels came of the wagon last season. I haven't had the heart to even read more than a couple of blips on the Suns this summer. I knew one of the Twins got traded, but from this it sounds like both are gone now. Good riddance. They had skills, but they were cancer for the team.

[LazarusLong]

I don't think Hornacek is a bad influence. I think his inexperience as an NBA head coach was on display last year, especially the mishandling of the technical foul issue. Let's see what happens this year before rushing to judgment.

[The Bobster]

I like him as a coach, but he has his strengths and weaknesses.

I think the technical foul rule was something straight out of middle school. If you have a player who is a problem, you take care of that problem. You don't tip toe around it and try not to hurt anyone's feelings. The whole Markieff & Marcus issue should have been dealt with directly. Hopefully Hornacek will learn something from this.

[Cap]

I'm afraid I don't have any analytics to bring to bear on the question.

I agree with the common wisdom around here. Hornacek did a fine job in 2013-14. Last year, he was not up to the task of making an efficient machine out of misfit parts, or the task of preventing toxic personalities from becoming a problem.

My guess is that Hornacek will never be a Hall of Fame or championship coach, but that doesn't mean we're at a point where it makes sense to eat his contract and hire a replacement. He's our coach for the immediate future; let's try to put him in a position to succeed.

Ideally, that means find a way to get rid of Markieff without leaving ourselves a huge hole at PF. Unfortunately, that's more easily said than done. (If only Aldridge had signed!)

If it's a choice between making Hornacek deal with the knucklehead or making him deal with a gaping hole in the lineup left by the knucklehead's departure, I say try to work with the knucklehead. Hopefully the absence of his brother's bad influence and the addition of some more positive locker room personalities will make it possible for the team to work together. If not, we can always move him later.

[Indy]

If it's a choice between making Hornacek deal with the knucklehead or making him deal with a gaping hole in the lineup left by the knucklehead's departure, I say try to work with the knucklehead.

I agree with the rest of your post, but not this part. I would much rather him try and figure out how to use a 3 as a 4, or a 5 as a 4 (or even a young undrafted 4) instead of deal with Keef again. Addition by subtraction.

[Superbone]

Yeah, I'm ready for Keef to be gone. I just hope we get something of value for him. It doesn't even have to be equivalent. 80 cents on the dollar will do.

[Shabazz]

If someone wants to post Coro's article from today (about involuntary workouts), he says Keef is unlikely to be traded.

[Superbone]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /71318670/

Ten Suns contract players started voluntary workouts this week, two weeks ahead of when such sessions usually start with a lesser turnout. The Suns have full pickup games involving contract players and two more potential roster members, training camp additions Henry Sims and Cory Jefferson.

Eric Bledsoe, Devin Booker, Archie Goodwin, Brandon Knight, Alex Len, Jon Leuer, Ronnie Price, P.J. Tucker, T.J. Warren and Sonny Weems have been playing at US Airways Center since Monday.

There is no surprise that Markieff Morris is missing from that list, given his "Keef beef" with the franchise. His trade request fell on deaf ears. The other absent contract players, Tyson Chandler and Mirza Teletovic, are expected to join their new teammates in Phoenix over the next 10 days.

It would be ideal for Knight to spend September working with his starting power forward but a Morris early arrival is about as likely as a fulfillment of his trade wish.

The Suns need and want Morris. They would not stand much of a chance to replace him by trade. They would have no chance to replace him by free agency. They do not have an adequate existing roster option.

[ShelC]

Teletovic is the wild card IMO.

[Indy]

That rings hollow to me. Sounds like we are telling him to say this so it might raise his value.

[Superbone]

That rings hollow to me. Sounds like we are telling him to say this so it might raise his value.

Telling who to say what?

[Indy]

Org feeding Coro that line.

[OE32]

I don't know. I've given this a lot of thought, and I can't see a trade that wouldn't be a downgrade at the 4. Kieff's a good defender, a good passer, solid on the P&R (on both ends), great from mid-range, maybe our best 1-on-1 player, a subpar but not bad rebounder, and he can occasionally hit the 3. He's not a great player, but he's a complete one. Maybe there are things we could do to make him happier... too bad we can't just unilaterally choose to put bonus incentives for good behavior in his contract.

[Nodack]

How well does he perform for the team when he hates the team? How does he help team chemistry when he hates the team? If I was the coach/owner and he refused to perform tho the best of his abilities I wouldn't have no choice but to let him ride the pine. As a professional basketball player it can't help your worth to be known as a trouble making non team player that has anger management problems who is the most talented PF on the team and yet sits on the bench because you are an asshole. If he refused to contribute It would be time to tell him to stay home for the season and watch TV while your team moves on. At first it might seem OK to be getting paid to sit on your ass, but after awhile it might dawn on him that his basketball playing days are in jeopardy because of his attitude.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

How well does he perform for the team when he hates the team? How does he help team chemistry when he hates the team? If I was the coach/owner and he refused to perform tho the best of his abilities I wouldn't have no choice but to let him ride the pine. As a professional basketball player it can't help your worth to be known as a trouble making non team player that has anger management problems who is the most talented PF on the team and yet sits on the bench because you are an asshole. If he refused to contribute It would be time to tell him to stay home for the season and watch TV while your team moves on. At first it might seem OK to be getting paid to sit on your ass, but after awhile it might dawn on him that his basketball playing days are in jeopardy because of his attitude.

This is the way to go, unless a very good trade arises, because dumping him just because we are screwed by his attitude, would be conceding the match. Look at the Pistons after they man up with Josh Smith. In this case, man up to Kieff, would be to send the baby to the corner to reflect about his actions, instead of give him what he wants.

[iLLmatic]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /71318670/

a Morris early arrival is about as likely as a fulfillment of his trade wish.

The Suns need and want Morris. They would not stand much of a chance to replace him by trade. They would have no chance to replace him by free agency. They do not have an adequate existing roster option.

I lose faith in this front office by the minute that Markieff Morris is still on the roster. I'm baffled by the fact that it appears we are refusing to trade him. I understand we have him on a good salary and it'd leave a huge weakness at the 4 but can we seriously take another hit to our chemistry this year? Basketball is a team sport where team chemistry is huge, especially when you consider how our offense is constructed with ball movement.

[Indy]

I don't know. I've given this a lot of thought, and I can't see a trade that wouldn't be a downgrade at the 4. Kieff's a good defender, a good passer, solid on the P&R (on both ends), great from mid-range, maybe our best 1-on-1 player, a subpar but not bad rebounder, and he can occasionally hit the 3. He's not a great player, but he's a complete one. Maybe there are things we could do to make him happier... too bad we can't just unilaterally choose to put bonus incentives for good behavior in his contract.

Did you just suggest we need to do something to reward him for this current behavior? Because it sounds like you have a 3 year old throwing a tantrum, and the parents just said "I wish there was something we could do to make him happier so he doesn't throw tantrums..." I just see that as enabling.

[Mori Chu]

I don't think we are refusing to trade him. We probably have just gotten crappy trade offers and don't want to just give the guy away. The FO is holding out hope that some team will step up with a better offer, so they're leaking obviously false rumors (through their media puppets like Gambo) saying that we are just going to keep Kieff, hoping it will drive up his price. It's a standard tactic, and we aren't doing it very well in this case because it's so blatant and obvious.