2020 Election Thread

[In2ition]

Anyone claiming that Trump is not a racist or misogynist is like that abused spouse that keeps defending her husband.

Exactly. He’s showed his hand. “You can do anything you want like grab them by the pussy.” and “Stand back and stand by.” are two classics.

And if you don't see the racism and sexism and xenophobia in his statements and actions, you might want to look in the mirror. All of us have some level of these, as it is a spectrum. But not seeing Trump as on the far end of this spectrum means you might be further towards that side than you think.

This comes off as a personal attack on me. You want a piece of me Indy? I'm not going to sit back and let some super arrogant fuck take pot shots at me.

But it's liberals that are violent.

I'm not violent, but I'm not going to sit back and take some bs from Indy.

[In2ition]

Anyone claiming that Trump is not a racist or misogynist is like that abused spouse that keeps defending her husband.

Exactly. He’s showed his hand. “You can do anything you want like grab them by the pussy.” and “Stand back and stand by.” are two classics.

And if you don't see the racism and sexism and xenophobia in his statements and actions, you might want to look in the mirror. All of us have some level of these, as it is a spectrum. But not seeing Trump as on the far end of this spectrum means you might be further towards that side than you think.

This comes off as a personal attack on me. You want a piece of me Indy? I'm not going to sit back and let some super arrogant fuck take pot shots at me.

It isn't a pot shot, or a personal attack. And it isn't arrogance. Anyone that supports a clear racist is, at the very least, OK with some racism. Anyone that supports a sexist is, at the very least, OK with some sexism. Same with xenophobia. Or lying. Or paying people off to be quiet about misdeeds.

I am fine defending the logic of these statements. If you take that as a personal attack, that is on you.

I have plenty of people in my family that supported/support Trump. And I have said the exact same thing to them. Some take offense, some don't. The most racist/sexist/xenophobes are the ones that don't really argue or try to defend it. The ones that pretend they are not that way are the first to get offended and upset.

You either know who you are or you don't. If you are a blonde and I call you a brunette, you don't get upset and say it is a personal attack. You laugh and point at me and say I am clearly wrong. If you are a blonde and I call you a blonde, you say yeah, what's your point. I guess we can argue about where blonde turns into brunette, and what that spectrum looks like, but there is definitely a spectrum and we are not always the best judge about where we sit on it. That goes for all of us.

I don't give a crap about your explanation. I'm not a fucking racist or xenophobic and I don't appreciate you trying to make it out that way. So shove it up your @$$

[AmareIsGod]

Exactly. He’s showed his hand. “You can do anything you want like grab them by the pussy.” and “Stand back and stand by.” are two classics.

And if you don't see the racism and sexism and xenophobia in his statements and actions, you might want to look in the mirror. All of us have some level of these, as it is a spectrum. But not seeing Trump as on the far end of this spectrum means you might be further towards that side than you think.

This comes off as a personal attack on me. You want a piece of me Indy? I'm not going to sit back and let some super arrogant fuck take pot shots at me.

It isn't a pot shot, or a personal attack. And it isn't arrogance. Anyone that supports a clear racist is, at the very least, OK with some racism. Anyone that supports a sexist is, at the very least, OK with some sexism. Same with xenophobia. Or lying. Or paying people off to be quiet about misdeeds.

I am fine defending the logic of these statements. If you take that as a personal attack, that is on you.

I have plenty of people in my family that supported/support Trump. And I have said the exact same thing to them. Some take offense, some don't. The most racist/sexist/xenophobes are the ones that don't really argue or try to defend it. The ones that pretend they are not that way are the first to get offended and upset.

You either know who you are or you don't. If you are a blonde and I call you a brunette, you don't get upset and say it is a personal attack. You laugh and point at me and say I am clearly wrong. If you are a blonde and I call you a blonde, you say yeah, what's your point. I guess we can argue about where blonde turns into brunette, and what that spectrum looks like, but there is definitely a spectrum and we are not always the best judge about where we sit on it. That goes for all of us.

I don't give a crap about your explanation. I'm not a fucking racist or xenophobic and I don't appreciate you trying to make it out that way. So shove it up your @$$

Yeah Indy! And neither is Donald Trump. You POS!

[Indy]

Exactly. He’s showed his hand. “You can do anything you want like grab them by the pussy.” and “Stand back and stand by.” are two classics.

And if you don't see the racism and sexism and xenophobia in his statements and actions, you might want to look in the mirror. All of us have some level of these, as it is a spectrum. But not seeing Trump as on the far end of this spectrum means you might be further towards that side than you think.

This comes off as a personal attack on me. You want a piece of me Indy? I'm not going to sit back and let some super arrogant fuck take pot shots at me.

It isn't a pot shot, or a personal attack. And it isn't arrogance. Anyone that supports a clear racist is, at the very least, OK with some racism. Anyone that supports a sexist is, at the very least, OK with some sexism. Same with xenophobia. Or lying. Or paying people off to be quiet about misdeeds.

I am fine defending the logic of these statements. If you take that as a personal attack, that is on you.

I have plenty of people in my family that supported/support Trump. And I have said the exact same thing to them. Some take offense, some don't. The most racist/sexist/xenophobes are the ones that don't really argue or try to defend it. The ones that pretend they are not that way are the first to get offended and upset.

You either know who you are or you don't. If you are a blonde and I call you a brunette, you don't get upset and say it is a personal attack. You laugh and point at me and say I am clearly wrong. If you are a blonde and I call you a blonde, you say yeah, what's your point. I guess we can argue about where blonde turns into brunette, and what that spectrum looks like, but there is definitely a spectrum and we are not always the best judge about where we sit on it. That goes for all of us.

I don't give a crap about your explanation. I'm not a fucking racist or xenophobic and I don't appreciate you trying to make it out that way. So shove it up your @$$

If you actively support a racist/sexist/xenophobe, you are OK with those things. If you are OK with racism, doesn't that make you racist?

[Nodack]

Getting a little hot in here.

[AmareIsGod]

Getting a little hot in here.

So take off all your clothes.

[In2ition]

And if you don't see the racism and sexism and xenophobia in his statements and actions, you might want to look in the mirror. All of us have some level of these, as it is a spectrum. But not seeing Trump as on the far end of this spectrum means you might be further towards that side than you think.

This comes off as a personal attack on me. You want a piece of me Indy? I'm not going to sit back and let some super arrogant fuck take pot shots at me.

It isn't a pot shot, or a personal attack. And it isn't arrogance. Anyone that supports a clear racist is, at the very least, OK with some racism. Anyone that supports a sexist is, at the very least, OK with some sexism. Same with xenophobia. Or lying. Or paying people off to be quiet about misdeeds.

I am fine defending the logic of these statements. If you take that as a personal attack, that is on you.

I have plenty of people in my family that supported/support Trump. And I have said the exact same thing to them. Some take offense, some don't. The most racist/sexist/xenophobes are the ones that don't really argue or try to defend it. The ones that pretend they are not that way are the first to get offended and upset.

You either know who you are or you don't. If you are a blonde and I call you a brunette, you don't get upset and say it is a personal attack. You laugh and point at me and say I am clearly wrong. If you are a blonde and I call you a blonde, you say yeah, what's your point. I guess we can argue about where blonde turns into brunette, and what that spectrum looks like, but there is definitely a spectrum and we are not always the best judge about where we sit on it. That goes for all of us.

I don't give a crap about your explanation. I'm not a fucking racist or xenophobic and I don't appreciate you trying to make it out that way. So shove it up your @$$

If you actively support a racist/sexist/xenophobe, you are OK with those things. If you are OK with racism, doesn't that make you racist?

You condone Biden saying, "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black". "Unlike the black community, the Hispanic community is quite diverse." Then tries to play Despacito on his phone for the Hispanic audience to show his favor with them. This is your guy you are backing? A guy that has 47 yrs of racism in politics. A guy that was also has many a creepy moment on video of him sniffing hair of women and fondling little girls and saying creepy shit to them? Tara Reid accused him of a sexual assault when she was an intern for him. There are multitudes of allegations of him being inappropriate around female secret service. His own daughter's diary says that she had inappropriate showers with him. There are a lot of crazy shit that came out of Hunter's laptop and the disgusting things he's done, including with his own niece. By your definition, how do you fair?

[AmareIsGod]

This comes off as a personal attack on me. You want a piece of me Indy? I'm not going to sit back and let some super arrogant fuck take pot shots at me.

It isn't a pot shot, or a personal attack. And it isn't arrogance. Anyone that supports a clear racist is, at the very least, OK with some racism. Anyone that supports a sexist is, at the very least, OK with some sexism. Same with xenophobia. Or lying. Or paying people off to be quiet about misdeeds.

I am fine defending the logic of these statements. If you take that as a personal attack, that is on you.

I have plenty of people in my family that supported/support Trump. And I have said the exact same thing to them. Some take offense, some don't. The most racist/sexist/xenophobes are the ones that don't really argue or try to defend it. The ones that pretend they are not that way are the first to get offended and upset.

You either know who you are or you don't. If you are a blonde and I call you a brunette, you don't get upset and say it is a personal attack. You laugh and point at me and say I am clearly wrong. If you are a blonde and I call you a blonde, you say yeah, what's your point. I guess we can argue about where blonde turns into brunette, and what that spectrum looks like, but there is definitely a spectrum and we are not always the best judge about where we sit on it. That goes for all of us.

I don't give a crap about your explanation. I'm not a fucking racist or xenophobic and I don't appreciate you trying to make it out that way. So shove it up your @$$

If you actively support a racist/sexist/xenophobe, you are OK with those things. If you are OK with racism, doesn't that make you racist?

You condone Biden saying, "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black". "Unlike the black community, the Hispanic community is quite diverse." Then tries to play Despacito on his phone for the Hispanic audience to show his favor with them. This is your guy you are backing? A guy that has 47 yrs of racism in politics. A guy that was also has many a creepy moment on video of him sniffing hair of women and fondling little girls and saying creepy shit to them? Tara Reid accused him of a sexual assault when she was an intern for him. There are multitudes of allegations of him being inappropriate around female secret service. His own daughter's diary says that she had inappropriate showers with him. There are a lot of crazy shit that came out of Hunter's laptop and the disgusting things he's done, including with his own niece. By your definition, how do you fair?

Shower with his daughter that was inappropriate, according to The National File, that got the info from an anonymous source. Sounds highly credible.

https://misbar.com/en/factcheck/2020/10 ... %99s-diary

[In2ition]

It isn't a pot shot, or a personal attack. And it isn't arrogance. Anyone that supports a clear racist is, at the very least, OK with some racism. Anyone that supports a sexist is, at the very least, OK with some sexism. Same with xenophobia. Or lying. Or paying people off to be quiet about misdeeds.

I am fine defending the logic of these statements. If you take that as a personal attack, that is on you.

I have plenty of people in my family that supported/support Trump. And I have said the exact same thing to them. Some take offense, some don't. The most racist/sexist/xenophobes are the ones that don't really argue or try to defend it. The ones that pretend they are not that way are the first to get offended and upset.

You either know who you are or you don't. If you are a blonde and I call you a brunette, you don't get upset and say it is a personal attack. You laugh and point at me and say I am clearly wrong. If you are a blonde and I call you a blonde, you say yeah, what's your point. I guess we can argue about where blonde turns into brunette, and what that spectrum looks like, but there is definitely a spectrum and we are not always the best judge about where we sit on it. That goes for all of us.

I don't give a crap about your explanation. I'm not a fucking racist or xenophobic and I don't appreciate you trying to make it out that way. So shove it up your @$$

If you actively support a racist/sexist/xenophobe, you are OK with those things. If you are OK with racism, doesn't that make you racist?

You condone Biden saying, "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black". "Unlike the black community, the Hispanic community is quite diverse." Then tries to play Despacito on his phone for the Hispanic audience to show his favor with them. This is your guy you are backing? A guy that has 47 yrs of racism in politics. A guy that was also has many a creepy moment on video of him sniffing hair of women and fondling little girls and saying creepy shit to them? Tara Reid accused him of a sexual assault when she was an intern for him. There are multitudes of allegations of him being inappropriate around female secret service. His own daughter's diary says that she had inappropriate showers with him. There are a lot of crazy shit that came out of Hunter's laptop and the disgusting things he's done, including with his own niece. By your definition, how do you fair?

Shower with his daughter that was inappropriate, according to The National File, that got the info from an anonymous source. Sounds highly credible.

https://misbar.com/en/factcheck/2020/10 ... %99s-diary

Sounds like creepy Joe and someone that would raise Hunter and the shit he's done.

[Indy]

Getting a little hot in here.

Only one person is hot in here.

[virtual9mm]

How is it possible that smart folks believe the unproven nonsense that Giuliani and his people made up? Meanwhile, they discount "grab them by the pussy" and multiple rape accusations as nothing.

The only credible thing against Biden are the sexual harassment charge and I am not sure about the truth of it. To deny it would be foolish but I am not going to pre judge.

Regarding Trump -- if you voted for him, you are not necessarily racist but you don't mind it, either. Or you don't recognize it fir what it is, probably the more likely explanation in this case. Too many folks have been sucked into his personality cult.

[In2ition]

How is it possible that smart folks believe the unproven nonsense that Giuliani and his people made up? Meanwhile, they discount "grab them by the pussy" and multiple rape accusations as nothing.

The only credible thing against Biden are the sexual harassment charge and I am not sure about the truth of it. To deny it would be foolish but I am not going to pre judge.

Regarding Trump -- if you voted for him, you are not necessarily racist but you don't mind it, either. Or you don't recognize it fir what it is, probably the more likely explanation in this case. Too many folks have been sucked into his personality cult.

What did Giuliani and his people make up?
If you *ignore* the video footage, data analysis, statistical impossibilities, whistleblowers, witness affidavits, expert witness affidavits, forensic audits, etc. There is no proof of voter fraud.

I've got news for you, the Hunter laptop is real, the shit in it is real, and the media is finally looking into it after suppressing it before the election.

Why do you think projecting racist liberal bs on others is cool? I suppose if I just fed on a diet of a lies that the MSM shoved down my throat at every minute, I would be in the same boat as everyone else. I'd sit here in the echo chamber jerking off to each other's "wisdom".

[Mori Chu]

Let's keep it civil, folks.

Here are some Trump comments or tweets that I find offensive. Republicans reading this thread: Are these okay to you?

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. (...) They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people,”

"calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on."

“The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day.”

“‘Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that.”

“Rosie O’Donnell’s disgusting. I mean, both inside and out. You take a look at her, she’s a slob.”

".@ariannahuff is unattractive both inside and out. I fully understand why her former husband left her for a man- he made a good decision."

"sh**hole countries"

"grab 'em by the pu**y"

"[John McCain is]... not a war hero. He's a war hero - he's a war hero 'cause he was captured. I Like people that weren't captured, OK, I hate to tell you."

"If Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her."

“I was down there, and I watched our police and our firemen, down on 7-Eleven, down at the World Trade Center, right after it came down”

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."

"You could see there was bloody coming out of her (Megyn Kelly's) eyes. Blood coming out of her wherever."

"If Hillary Clinton can't satisfy her husband what makes her think she can satisfy America?"

“Look at my African-American!”

(to Proud Boys) "Stand back and stand by."

(on Charlottesville) "Very fine people on both sides."

I could go on.

[Indy]

How is it possible that smart folks believe the unproven nonsense that Giuliani and his people made up? Meanwhile, they discount "grab them by the pussy" and multiple rape accusations as nothing.

The only credible thing against Biden are the sexual harassment charge and I am not sure about the truth of it. To deny it would be foolish but I am not going to pre judge.

Regarding Trump -- if you voted for him, you are not necessarily racist but you don't mind it, either. Or you don't recognize it fir what it is, probably the more likely explanation in this case. Too many folks have been sucked into his personality cult.

If you support racists, how are you not racist?

I understand your 2nd argument, that there are probably some people that support Trump that don't know he is racist. But you would have to actively avoid hearing him speak or reading anything about him to be in this boat. If you are saying they see what he says but don't think it is racist/sexist/xenophobic, then I would argue you have to be those things to not realize they are racist/sexist/xenophobic.

[virtual9mm]

How is it possible that smart folks believe the unproven nonsense that Giuliani and his people made up? Meanwhile, they discount "grab them by the pussy" and multiple rape accusations as nothing.

The only credible thing against Biden are the sexual harassment charge and I am not sure about the truth of it. To deny it would be foolish but I am not going to pre judge.

Regarding Trump -- if you voted for him, you are not necessarily racist but you don't mind it, either. Or you don't recognize it fir what it is, probably the more likely explanation in this case. Too many folks have been sucked into his personality cult.

If you support racists, how are you not racist?

I understand your 2nd argument, that there are probably some people that support Trump that don't know he is racist. But you would have to actively avoid hearing him speak or reading anything about him to be in this boat. If you are saying they see what he says but don't think it is racist/sexist/xenophobic, then I would argue you have to be those things to not realize they are racist/sexist/xenophobic.

Maybe the distinction is between passively being willing to tolerate racism (i.e. supporting Trump for his anti-China stance while ignoring the blatantly racist and sexist shit he is doing) and actively being a Proud Boy supporter. And the truth is that we're all racist in some way or another. But there are those of us who try not to be racist and other folks who turn a blind eye.

[In2ition]

Let's keep it civil, folks.

Here are some Trump comments or tweets that I find offensive. Republicans reading this thread: Are these okay to you?

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. (...) They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people,”
He was talking about MS13, not the Mexican people.
"calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on."

“The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day.”

“‘Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that.” I don't know the context of this quote.

“Rosie O’Donnell’s disgusting. I mean, both inside and out. You take a look at her, she’s a slob.”
Rosie is not a good person. I don't think this is disputed.

".@ariannahuff is unattractive both inside and out. I fully understand why her former husband left her for a man- he made a good decision."

"sh**hole countries"

"grab 'em by the pu**y"

"[John McCain is]... not a war hero. He's a war hero - he's a war hero 'cause he was captured. I Like people that weren't captured, OK, I hate to tell you." I'm not enamored with McCain either. I think he's a neo con that just loved to send our troops to war. Why is that?

"If Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her."

“I was down there, and I watched our police and our firemen, down on 7-Eleven, down at the World Trade Center, right after it came down”

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." I don't know the context to this.

"You could see there was bloody coming out of her (Megyn Kelly's) eyes. Blood coming out of her wherever."

"If Hillary Clinton can't satisfy her husband what makes her think she can satisfy America?" I don't like Hillary either, but whatever.

“Look at my African-American!” I don't know the context to this.

(to Proud Boys) "Stand back and stand by." What are you trying to imply about the Proud Boys? Their leader is a Cuban black guy.

(on Charlottesville) "Very fine people on both sides."
He was talking about both people on the sides of the debate of keeping or tearing down the statues. He specifically said he wasn't talking about the white supremacist's. You really just regurgitate anything you are fed, without looking into the whole story. Just like Covington.
I could go on.

[In2ition]

How is it possible that smart folks believe the unproven nonsense that Giuliani and his people made up? Meanwhile, they discount "grab them by the pussy" and multiple rape accusations as nothing.

The only credible thing against Biden are the sexual harassment charge and I am not sure about the truth of it. To deny it would be foolish but I am not going to pre judge.

Regarding Trump -- if you voted for him, you are not necessarily racist but you don't mind it, either. Or you don't recognize it fir what it is, probably the more likely explanation in this case. Too many folks have been sucked into his personality cult.

If you support racists, how are you not racist?

I understand your 2nd argument, that there are probably some people that support Trump that don't know he is racist. But you would have to actively avoid hearing him speak or reading anything about him to be in this boat. If you are saying they see what he says but don't think it is racist/sexist/xenophobic, then I would argue you have to be those things to not realize they are racist/sexist/xenophobic.

Once again, what does it make you, when you support Biden? This is your argument.

[virtual9mm]

How is it possible that smart folks believe the unproven nonsense that Giuliani and his people made up? Meanwhile, they discount "grab them by the pussy" and multiple rape accusations as nothing.

The only credible thing against Biden are the sexual harassment charge and I am not sure about the truth of it. To deny it would be foolish but I am not going to pre judge.

Regarding Trump -- if you voted for him, you are not necessarily racist but you don't mind it, either. Or you don't recognize it fir what it is, probably the more likely explanation in this case. Too many folks have been sucked into his personality cult.

What did Giuliani and his people make up?
If you *ignore* the video footage, data analysis, statistical impossibilities, whistleblowers, witness affidavits, expert witness affidavits, forensic audits, etc. There is no proof of voter fraud.

I've got news for you, the Hunter laptop is real, the shit in it is real, and the media is finally looking into it after suppressing it before the election.

Why do you think projecting racist liberal bs on others is cool? I suppose if I just fed on a diet of a lies that the MSM shoved down my throat at every minute, I would be in the same boat as everyone else. I'd sit here in the echo chamber jerking off to each other's "wisdom".

Some of my disjointed thoughts below. Some you'll like and others you won't. But that's reality for you.

For one thing, I probably (but not certainly) know China better than you do and some of the unproven rumors that were floating out there as "fact" -- like Hunter Biden having filmed himself raping 1800 Chinese pre-teens -- just sound incredibly crazy. The only part of any of this that was revealed beyond Giuliani and his folks vouching for it themselves was that Hunter Biden mentioned that the "Chairman" had not approved of himself being directly involved in a fundraising transaction. Having tried to raise Chinese money myself for my own venture before that started being frowned upon (it was awfully tempting before we realized that there were so many strings attached) -- Joe Biden did the right thing.

But with stuff like Pornhub and Epstein out there and how the elite covered up for Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew -- and Donald Trump -- it's hard for you to believe anything coming from the elite, isn't it? There's a part of me that says that your thinking is crazy but there's another part of me that agrees by questioning why should you believe anything from the elite. And there's a part of me that knows the truth -- the elite plays by a set of rules that they generally don't break but often forget to think about how these rules are written in their favor. Like my friends and family members in finance -- they think nothing of building 8000 square foot houses and thinking that this is normal because they're helping markets run and entitled to a huge salary. They say they care about their friends and family members back in Midwestern small towns but they won't put their money where their mouths are. But at the same time, they're incredibly ethical folks by their own standards. The rules are written in their favor, though. How would you feel about think tank events with former ambassadors and congressmen who were invited to attract big donors to the institution? It's completely legit and ethical according to prevailing standards. But you probably wouldn't think it was fair.

The MSM has certainly failed in many cases but they at least TRY to portray an unbiased picture -- journalistic neutrality is hard to achieve but there's a lot of journalistic integrity still. Meanwhile, the likes of OANN are deliberately trying to manipulate you. I'll take failed attempts at impartiality any day over Giuliani and his ilk holding press conferences at the "Four Seasons" and having as their first "participant" someone who had been convicted of child sex offenses (it's a true story, look it up).

The elite failed in 2016 because they saw the need for little sugar-coated white lies. For instance, the US Trade Representative at the time and others pushed a line of "TPP needs to get done because it's good for everyone". Quietly and in private, the real story was "...it's political, we need to use this to contain China". I wish the elite hadn't told these little white lies because they put Trump and his Big Lie into power.

Now we're all fucked. And I say this as an American expat living abroad who has lots of options.

[virtual9mm]

How is it possible that smart folks believe the unproven nonsense that Giuliani and his people made up? Meanwhile, they discount "grab them by the pussy" and multiple rape accusations as nothing.

The only credible thing against Biden are the sexual harassment charge and I am not sure about the truth of it. To deny it would be foolish but I am not going to pre judge.

Regarding Trump -- if you voted for him, you are not necessarily racist but you don't mind it, either. Or you don't recognize it fir what it is, probably the more likely explanation in this case. Too many folks have been sucked into his personality cult.

If you support racists, how are you not racist?

I understand your 2nd argument, that there are probably some people that support Trump that don't know he is racist. But you would have to actively avoid hearing him speak or reading anything about him to be in this boat. If you are saying they see what he says but don't think it is racist/sexist/xenophobic, then I would argue you have to be those things to not realize they are racist/sexist/xenophobic.

Once again, what does it make you, when you support Biden? This is your argument.

I think it's simple. Biden's an old man whose positions have shifted over time as the US itself has shifted. Trump and his folks deliberately inflict cruelty towards brown people because they can -- ask the 600+ kids who will never see their parents again and are in the foster care system after having experienced the most traumatic thing that could happen to a kid. The foster care system is one of the biggest sources of kids to be pimped out into the "market" if I understand correctly.

Supporting one is not like supporting the other.

[Indy]

How is it possible that smart folks believe the unproven nonsense that Giuliani and his people made up? Meanwhile, they discount "grab them by the pussy" and multiple rape accusations as nothing.

The only credible thing against Biden are the sexual harassment charge and I am not sure about the truth of it. To deny it would be foolish but I am not going to pre judge.

Regarding Trump -- if you voted for him, you are not necessarily racist but you don't mind it, either. Or you don't recognize it fir what it is, probably the more likely explanation in this case. Too many folks have been sucked into his personality cult.

If you support racists, how are you not racist?

I understand your 2nd argument, that there are probably some people that support Trump that don't know he is racist. But you would have to actively avoid hearing him speak or reading anything about him to be in this boat. If you are saying they see what he says but don't think it is racist/sexist/xenophobic, then I would argue you have to be those things to not realize they are racist/sexist/xenophobic.

Maybe the distinction is between passively being willing to tolerate racism (i.e. supporting Trump for his anti-China stance while ignoring the blatantly racist and sexist shit he is doing) and actively being a Proud Boy supporter. And the truth is that we're all racist in some way or another. But there are those of us who try not to be racist and other folks who turn a blind eye.

Agreed about everyone being racist--I think I started out this conversation saying that. Just a matter of where you are on the spectrum. And, like you said, if you actively try and avoid it, or lean into it.