Suns News: Week 25 4/11-4/17

[OE32]

The overall result is excellent.

Really? Excellent? The net result of all FO decisions under McD is excellent?

Hey, at least I'm consistent.

You are. I just can't believe you would say his decisions here have netted "excellent" results. Besides marginal players (Tucker), I don't think he has given a single good contract to anyone. And his drafts have been OK, but he has only picked the consensus pick for the most part. I just don't see excellence there, and am extremely surprised you do.

Don't think either Warren or Len were consensus picks. And no good contracts? IT @ 8 and Keef @ 8 ends that argument. After all, Boston could not have "raped" us as you claim if IT's was not a good contract! And how can Keef's contract not be good if we were able to deal it for a lotto pick?? You try to have it anti-McD both ways, and as a result, you contradict yourself.

[Indy]

The overall result is excellent.

Really? Excellent? The net result of all FO decisions under McD is excellent?

Hey, at least I'm consistent.

You are. I just can't believe you would say his decisions here have netted "excellent" results. Besides marginal players (Tucker), I don't think he has given a single good contract to anyone. And his drafts have been OK, but he has only picked the consensus pick for the most part. I just don't see excellence there, and am extremely surprised you do.

Don't think either Warren or Len were consensus picks. And no good contracts? IT @ 8 and Keef @ 8 ends that argument. After all, Boston could not have "raped" us as you claim if IT's was not a good contract! And how can Keef's contract not be good if we were able to deal it for a lotto pick?? You try to have it anti-McD both ways, and as a result, you contradict yourself.

Giving a contract to a guy you then HAD to trade because he was ruining your organization makes it a bad contract.

And giving IT a contract right after giving Bledsoe a contract is what alienated Goran.

You seem to want to reward him for signings that are good financially but bad personnel decisions.

[Mori Chu]

Here's the significant trades he's made -

Dudley for Bledsoe - Advantage Suns
Scola for Green/Plumlee/Pick - Advantage Suns
Gortat/Marshall for Okafor/Pick - Advantage Wizards
Pick for Wright - to be determined
Dragic for Picks - to be determined
Thomas for Pick - Big advantage Celtics
Plumlee/Ennis/Pick for Knight - Advantage 76ers
Marcus Morris for Pick - to be determined
Markieff Morris for Pick - to be determined

Really only two bad ones (the Thomas to Boston and Knight from Milwaukee trades) but both were really bad.

But really only one clear win and one trade (Scola) that looked really good for the first year but not quite as good now.

Great summary

Dudley for Bledsoe was a home run, though. Bled is like 1000x better than Dudley.

M******f for a 1st round pick is not "TBD" to me. That was a miracle, to get a 1st round, late lottery, pick for a guy who was an open gaping wound on the organization and every other team in the league knew it.

Gortat/Marshall for Okafor/Pick - Advantage Wizards

This trade was sneaky really bad. Gortat would have helped us a lot, and then we wouldn't have wasted money on Chandler. Getting rid of both Gortat and Robin Lopez was dumb.

Dragic for Picks - to be determined

This was a good trade!! TBD is literally true, but the guy was demanding to get out. To get multiple first-rounders is a miracle. I agree that letting it get to the point that Dragic demanded to be traded was really bad. But once we were there, getting this deal for him was amazing.

Plumlee/Ennis/Pick for Knight - Advantage 76ers

I WILL **NEVER** F**KING forgive McDo for this asinine horrible trade. Disastrous. Almost single-handedly undoes all of the goodwill from all of the above. Horrendous.

[Gladiator]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but Coro's got a piece talking to McD about the plans going forward. I've largely been a McD supporter over the journey, but if some of the stuff he's saying publicly is what he believes privately, then I'm out. (To sum up, we were unlucky with injuries and are close to being a playoff team again, if we bring the band back next year)

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /83089142/

Some of McDonough's quotes:

The good news is one of the main reasons we have 23 wins is a lot of our best players were injured and missed significant portions or the majority of the season.

We weren’t properly positioned to withstand injuries. We just didn’t have the end-of-the-bench depth you need.

We’re positioned to move out of this place quickly and bounce back up and be competitive for the playoffs like we thought we’d be this year

On Knight, Bledsoe and Booker:

“That’ll be a key thing for us this offseason, trying to blend those guys together,” McDonough said. “I can see how their games would mesh well. But everybody needs to be willing to make some sacrifices and accept the role because they’re three talented players. Ideally, your top players play about 32 minutes a game. You take the 96 minutes at the guard spots and divide it by three. Keeping in mind, Booker is the most likely to slide to the three spot as he gets stronger.”

[TOO]

McDelusional.

[Ring_Wanted]

Bad trades? With an s? Shrug.

You are holding moves that are 9 years old against the team acting like it has been the MO of the front office since then.

Just 1 year. The trade of IT to Boston was a bad trade. They clearly raped us. The trade of the Lakers pick for 3 months of BHS was also a bad trade. If we loved him as much as we paid him, we could have done that in the off-season without wasting incredibly cheap, but incredibly valuable assets.

All true. But waiting on Knight doesn't give us ammo for pursuing the playoffs, which were still possible at that time. Would have prevented McD's second shot at the cheap cap hold+star FA strategy. Not saying the move was good (because I didn't want it at the time anyway) but there was solid logic behind it, considering all factors. I would have been way more supportive if it was a different kind of player instead of another flawed guard.

The problem with a number of these moves is that they were forced upon the team and became basically dumpings. Dragic, IT3, the Morrii represent much more value than the assets obtained (heck, add Plumlee and you basically have a starting 5), but that's what happens when your team is a mess and there is bad blood and chemistry all over it. The real issue here is the lack of foresight when they striked out on the big FAs and settled for Thomas.

[Ring_Wanted]

Some of the "to be determined" trades are clear wins.

Like Kieff to Wizards. No matter WHAT happens, that was a win. I even consider the Marcus trade a win. There was no way we were going to get more for him anywhere. Also, three months of Dragic (he was going to leave anyway) for picks was a clear win, no matter how the picks end up.

To label those as tbd is just ignoring facts and trying to make a case against McD. Two of those tbd's are near miracle trades.

Did Markieff need to be traded? Yes. Did McD get more than anyone would reasonably expect in a trade. Absolutely. Advantage Suns.

Did Goran need to be traded. Yes, he clearly indicated he would not resign with us. Did we get more for him that anyone thought we could given that situation? Absolutely yes. One of the reasons we have hope for the future is those two Miami picks. Advantage Suns.

Its fine to be critical, but the criticisms need to be fair.

Mostly agreed. But one can also point at how some of those troubles were caused precisely by personnel decisions made by the GM. Why does Goran need to be traded? Why does Markieff? Why does IT3? They tried to make a 'value' move, reinventing the wheel along the way, when they should have opted to just continue with the good vibes generated from 13-14. This has costed the Suns two wasted seasons.

[Ring_Wanted]

Gortat/Marshall for Okafor/Pick - Advantage Wizards

But that's a given. This is why that was a rebuilding move. Nothing to complain imo. Gortat was expiring, by the way. Now, the use of that #18 is a different story.

[Ring_Wanted]

“That’ll be a key thing for us this offseason, trying to blend those guys together,” McDonough said. “I can see how their games would mesh well. But everybody needs to be willing to make some sacrifices and accept the role because they’re three talented players. Ideally, your top players play about 32 minutes a game. You take the 96 minutes at the guard spots and divide it by three. Keeping in mind, Booker is the most likely to slide to the three spot as he gets stronger.”

Get a grip, GM. Players usually are not up for these sacrifices. You are not required to be effing Cassandra, but you need to learn from recent mistakes.

And for all that's loved, don't fuck around with Booker. He is a SG and there is a chance he can carry an offense. Do not kill it before it's born. Do not put him alongside two low IQ TO prone ballhogs. A shot at a marginal playoff team is not worth it long term.

[sunset rubdown]

And for all that's loved, don't fuck around with Booker. He is a SG and there is a chance he can carry an offense. Do not kill it before it's born. Do not put him alongside two low IQ TO prone ballhogs. A shot at a marginal playoff team is not worth it long term.

I can live with Bledsoe as a PG. He was having a very good season until that injury.

Brandon Knight on the other side... Man, I don`t want that inneficient chucker nowhere near Devin Booker from now on. Especially after his comments couple of days ago.

[OE32]

I've learned not to trust most of what McDonough says. As a general rule, he hides his plans from the public, and more importantly, the players. The only thing I've learned from McDonough interviews this year is that Archie is not going to be with the team next season.

Coro says we'll solve our PF issue via free agency or trade. The players under contract McD doesn't mention at all are Archie, Tucker and Chandler - good pieces for a contender. I also think that despite his "blending" talk, there's a good chance that McD is interested in moving Knight if he can get value in return. If he tries to wait until Knight forces his way out... I'm thinking he's probably watched that movie once too many times by now.

I wouldn't be at all shocked if we target Love this offseason. Value's at an all-time low, under contract 4 more years. Knight for Faried works on paper. So does Knight for Kanter, dangerous as that play is. Zach Randolph could be available on the cheap if Conley leaves Memphis. O'Quinn might also work, and he could probably be had as part of Knight-to-NY package. I've mentioned Knight for Saric. As far as free agency goes, I'd rather keep Telly than pay Motiejunas or Anderson, Dwight Powell is likely to be overpaid, I don't want Terrence Jones, Horford obviously isn't coming here, Deng and Marvin Williams could work if they're willing to commit to PF... The trade possibilities seem better than free agent options.

McD also talks about improving the end of our bench, but only grabbing two rookies in the draft. Does that mean making another Leuer trade with the #34? Hard to see how you can get many good players to accept roles at the end of the bench - for instance, I don't think either Tucker or Chandler would much enjoy sitting behind TJ and Alex. I don't know how he'll improve the end of the bench, given our abysmal record this season. Quality vets aren't usually excited to sit on the end of a losing team's bench.

[carey]

McDelusional.

Even reading that as a McDonough supporter I cringed.

[Cap]

Bad trades? With an s? Shrug.

You are holding moves that are 9 years old against the team acting like it has been the MO of the front office since then.

Just 1 year. The trade of IT to Boston was a bad trade. They clearly raped us. The trade of the Lakers pick for 3 months of BHS was also a bad trade. If we loved him as much as we paid him, we could have done that in the off-season without wasting incredibly cheap, but incredibly valuable assets.

All true. But waiting on Knight doesn't give us ammo for pursuing the playoffs, which were still possible at that time. Would have prevented McD's second shot at the cheap cap hold+star FA strategy. Not saying the move was good (because I didn't want it at the time anyway) but there was solid logic behind it, considering all factors.

Seriously? Giving up a lottery pick in '16 to boost our chances of earning the 8th seed in '15 is solid logic?

It was a horrible deal. That was obvious then, and is even more clear in hindsight.

[JCSunsfan]

I've learned not to trust most of what McDonough says. As a general rule, he hides his plans from the public, and more importantly, the players. The only thing I've learned from McDonough interviews this year is that Archie is not going to be with the team next season.

Coro says we'll solve our PF issue via free agency or trade. The players under contract McD doesn't mention at all are Archie, Tucker and Chandler - good pieces for a contender. I also think that despite his "blending" talk, there's a good chance that McD is interested in moving Knight if he can get value in return. If he tries to wait until Knight forces his way out... I'm thinking he's probably watched that movie once too many times by now.

I wouldn't be at all shocked if we target Love this offseason. Value's at an all-time low, under contract 4 more years. Knight for Faried works on paper. So does Knight for Kanter, dangerous as that play is. Zach Randolph could be available on the cheap if Conley leaves Memphis. O'Quinn might also work, and he could probably be had as part of Knight-to-NY package. I've mentioned Knight for Saric. As far as free agency goes, I'd rather keep Telly than pay Motiejunas or Anderson, Dwight Powell is likely to be overpaid, I don't want Terrence Jones, Horford obviously isn't coming here, Deng and Marvin Williams could work if they're willing to commit to PF... The trade possibilities seem better than free agent options.

McD also talks about improving the end of our bench, but only grabbing two rookies in the draft. Does that mean making another Leuer trade with the #34? Hard to see how you can get many good players to accept roles at the end of the bench - for instance, I don't think either Tucker or Chandler would much enjoy sitting behind TJ and Alex. I don't know how he'll improve the end of the bench, given our abysmal record this season. Quality vets aren't usually excited to sit on the end of a losing team's bench.

Love's contract won't look that bad after this summer. I was sold on Kevin Love a couple of summers ago, but not sure now. He seems to have slowed a step (if that was possible).

He talks about adding two rookies. If Bogdan comes, that is five. Trade must happen somewhere. I do think he will move Knight if he can. I hope they have learned the negative impact of players who are unhappy with their roles.

[djy2j]

He said slide Booker to the 3

Maybe if he gets really really strong he can slide to the 4

Whatever needs to happen to keep Knight in the starting lineup

This f*cking guy...

[INFORMER]

McDelusional.

Yep.

And I'm not sure where this thinking comes from that Ryan speaks in code. He's been pretty straight forward with what he has said and has made moves that has matched his rhetoric.

[INFORMER]

It was a horrible deal. That was obvious then, and is even more clear in hindsight.

It so sad to see anyone try to excuse that deal or to minimize the stupidity of it.

It's even sadder to see someone look at the totality of the last three seasons and rate them as excellent.

[Ring_Wanted]

'If we loved him as much as we paid him, we could have done that in the off-season'

As stated, there were reasons as to why a GM looking to win and replace Dragic would do that trade at the deadline instead of waiting for the summer. Nothing more, nothing less. I knocked the move as much as anybody.

You can spare me the pity.

[Atreides]

I wan't to say, that I'm really dissapointed about this management, but still I'm only a fan and for me it'll be really interesting how the team will be constructed next season. Ryan should change his vision from The Dark Knight to Booker's Bakery and we'll be good in no time. I'm confident that he will pick good players in the draft but I'm still unsure about his inability to build a good team. I don't care if it will be Sabonis or Korkmaz but McD should learn how to manage his personnel and maximize their potential.

[INFORMER]

I'm confident that he will pick good players in the draft but I'm still unsure about his inability to build a good team.

And that's what it all boils down to. Three seasons and Ryan has just shown that he is completely inept at building a team.

People look at the trades he has made in isolation, in vacuums.

We celebrate being able to actually move Marcus Morris for anything and move Markieff Morris for a lotto pick, ignoring that we essentially flushed two years down the toilet and endured a lot of team/organization discord for these clowns. That matters. That is significant.