Karl Malone was assisted on 79% of his shots. He was MVP two times with that number. Shaq was 60-65%. You guys a putting way to much weight on that number. Just because Embiid, Jokic and Giannis are different doesn’t mean Ayton is a bad player. It means he doesn’t dribble the ball upcourt and shoot it. It also means the Suns have a lot of ball movement before the shot. Not a bad thing.
Yep. And even Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing were all close to that 75% number.
For the Suns, Shawn Marion was over 75% assisted in 2005-06 as our #1 in FGA, and 2006-07 as our #2.
We’re talking about a different era of basketball when teams force fed the post. I know that’s what you want us to do for Ayton, but there’s a reason the nba went away from that. It was inefficient. Those Rocket teams led by Hakeem topped out at about a 109 offensive rating, league average was 112 this year. The Knicks were even worse, topping out at about 108. The Jazz did have more success offensively, but that was helped out by a couple high efficiency guard in Stockton and Hornacek. Also they ran more pick n roll than post ups.
The 90’s were also an era that made post play easier. You couldn’t play zone. Had to either man up or commit to the double team. Lots of 1 on 1 post play or easier passes because everyone is glued to a man and someone would be wide open with a double. Hand checking on the perimeter also made driving tougher and led to teams using post play to get to the rim. It just doesn’t make sense to play the way you want to anymore.
Yeah and the NBA went away from the midrange game because it was inefficient. But you don’t mind Chris Paul and Devin Booker throwing it back to that.
And for everyone around the Suns fandom saying they need to shoot more threes and bring in more shooters, why not just let Ayton shoot threes? He has great form and has shown he can knock them down—he would no doubt be better than Crowder!
The nba didn’t go away from the midrange. The guys who could hit it kept it. CP3, KD, Kawhi, Derozan, etc. Long 2s mostly disappeared.
Ayton scored 1.04 points per possession in the post. That’s not bad, it’s decent for a half court offense, but he scored 1.25 as a roll man and 1.38 as a cutter. Not to mention his efficiency would probably go down if we have him more post touches as he only mostly gets post touches when he’s got his man completely sealed under the basket. His foul drawn rate in the post is also about as low as it gets. If he can’t draw fouls he had to hit close to 60% for it to be efficient. I only found 3 guys who averaged at least 1 post up a game with a lower foul rate.
I will say that I don’t have a problem with Ayton shooting more 3s. If they leave him uncovered at the top of the key he should let it fly.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton
Here’s a tweet with the actual article from Hollinger. A decent amount of Ayton talk as well as Pistons talk in general…gotta say I’m not really interested in a Detroit trade based around Jerami grant. I don’t think there’s any upside to where he’s better than Ayton or holds more value. They do mention a Spurs trade and..
That will piss off Saucy because there is no all-star coming back.
But honesty if Ayton is not going to be here next year, a Poeltl and Keldon for Ayton is a good return. You get an average starting center than can defend the paint, shoots over 60% on a decent amount of attempts, and costs about 20-25M less. Keldon can dribble the ball to create a shot a lot better than ANYONE on our current team outside of our top 2.
But it does make our line ups weird. I know Keldon played a lot of PF for the Spurs, but he is small for a PF and I don't see us moving him into the lineup by taking out Mikal or even starting them together.
I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.
For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.
I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.
For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.
I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?
That will piss off Saucy because there is no all-star coming back.
But honesty if Ayton is not going to be here next year, a Poeltl and Keldon for Ayton is a good return. You get an average starting center than can defend the paint, shoots over 60% on a decent amount of attempts, and costs about 20-25M less. Keldon can dribble the ball to create a shot a lot better than ANYONE on our current team outside of our top 2.
But it does make our line ups weird. I know Keldon played a lot of PF for the Spurs, but he is small for a PF and I don't see us moving him into the lineup by taking out Mikal or even starting them together.
I doubt Keldon would be available, but he can get to the rim and he shot 40% from 3. 17/6/2 on .574 TS%. He’s only 6’5 but he’s 220 and had the same rebound rate as Crowder. Then try and turn Crowder into a bigger 4 that could be a small ball 5. Keldon is extension eligible this summer as well, so we’d have to pay him when we pay Cam
I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.
For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.
I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?
I would 100% match anything…let everyone know we are matching no matter what and sign and trade is the only way to get him. Teams won’t risk signing him outright.
I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.
For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.
I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?
I would 100% match anything…let everyone know we are matching no matter what and sign and trade is the only way to get him. Teams won’t risk signing him outright.
Oh, of course! I wasn't saying that you don't match, I was saying you don't plan on keeping him around if he doesn't want to be here and it is better to start the season fresh instead of rip it apart in late February.
I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.
For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.
I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?
I would 100% match anything…let everyone know we are matching no matter what and sign and trade is the only way to get him. Teams won’t risk signing him outright.
Oh, of course! I wasn't saying that you don't match, I was saying you don't plan on keeping him around if he doesn't want to be here and it is better to start the season fresh instead of rip it apart in late February.
Well, we know how Jones operates. If he doesn't plan to move forward with Ayton. He'll most likely be gone to start training camp.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
I think it was Monty that vetoed/quashed the mid-season trade with Ayton for Sabonis because he didn't want too much change in the middle of a great season. So it might not just be Jones pushing for roster changes to happen in the off-season.
Interesting. I wonder what “highly complex” means exactly.
Maybe they have dirt on Sarver from credible people but not hard proof (texts, emails, recordings) or he may have said inappropriate, cringe type of things but not anything that would force him to sell. Or if a sale is involved, getting investors/ownership lined up for a takeover? It's big business and Sarver might've been pretty entrenched as an owner/league official to where they can't just cut ties so easily. I still get the feeling they kinda know Sarver said a lot of those things but aren't going to force him to sell, which may have upset some of the players late in the year. That's just conjecture on my part tho.
You sound like my sister haha. She thinks they were protesting in Game 7 and wanted to lose.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
I don't think he has great form on 3-point shots at all. He shoots a line drive ball that works for him in the mid range, but is really hard to hit consistently on volume from deep.
He also has only taken them from the top of the key, which is an indication of his inability to hit them from elsewhere in practice.
You want to trade 5-6 of Ayton's shots from <10 feet for 3 pointers? Or are you saying he needs to take 18-19 shots a game?
And that is great he shot 36.8% from 3, but it was on 19 attempts all season. He is open from there at least once or twice a game.
We've been talking about how to get Ayton more involved in the offense and people have been saying the Suns need to shoot more threes, so that solves both issues.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
