Game Day: Suns (17-30) @ Pacers (25-22), Wed 1/24/18

[Mori Chu]

I haven't even come close to giving up on Bender. Dude is still so young. He's probably still another year or two away. If we draft an international player that young, have to be willing to give the guy a few years to learn and grow.

[Gladiator]

I haven't even come close to giving up on Bender. Dude is still so young. He's probably still another year or two away. If we draft an international player that young, have to be willing to give the guy a few years to learn and grow.

Agreed. Bender has also shown some pretty good glimpses of what he could become, especially on the defensive end. Not enough to count on night to night, and his recent starting run has been underwhelming, but he's shown enough to keep the faith for a little longer.

[Shabazz]

In a season with no shortage of disappoinents, I think Ulis might be the biggest one.

[Hermen]

... Bender (testicular fortitude) ...

9/10, I chuckled and proceeded to smile for a solid minute

[Nodack]

That was a good old fashioned ass kicking. Part of the highs and lows. Not gonna make too much of it.

[AmareIsGod]

Good news: we have a wealth of talent at PG.

[AmareIsGod]

so what are the chances Daniels gets invited to the 3pt Shootout. do bench players still get invited , I'm not remembering any since Craig Hodges lol so somebody help me

Eddie Johnson said something very interesting tonight. He said Daniels is the best shooter in Phoenix Suns history! Wow.

Well, by the numbers...

http://bkref.com/tiny/r1BiU

Doesn't exactly scream "BEST IN FRANCHISE HISTORY!" in my reading, but...

Sorting by TS% changes that quite a bit.

http://bkref.com/tiny/n91rQ

[bajanguy008]

Credit to you guys for watching the 4th and now I feel bad for not toughing it out lol.

As for Dragan.....
* consistent run has resulted in some good shooting games now he's actually on scouting reports IMO
* he would play hot potato on the perimeter if not open for 3 and EJ said next step is pump fake n jumper or go all the way
* to his credit I think he's drove to the basket when closed out or cut to the basket more in these last couple games than ever before
* problem is he is driving looking to pass. Bender has some nice dishes every game but hopefully he starts to seize the scoring opportunities better

[Indy]

so what are the chances Daniels gets invited to the 3pt Shootout. do bench players still get invited , I'm not remembering any since Craig Hodges lol so somebody help me

Eddie Johnson said something very interesting tonight. He said Daniels is the best shooter in Phoenix Suns history! Wow.

Maybe I need to go back and listen again, but I heard him say that Nash is the best shooter in Suns history. But he said that Daniels is the purest 3 point shooter.

[Indy]

Bender reminds me a lot of Boris his first year hear. So many people screaming "shoot the damn ball" when he had a perfectly good look at a shot but instead tried to be a PG and make a crazy pass.

[Split T]

This game got Josh Jackson back to 40% shooting on the year. Hopefully he keeps going up

[O_Gardino]

I haven't even come close to giving up on Bender. Dude is still so young. He's probably still another year or two away. If we draft an international player that young, have to be willing to give the guy a few years to learn and grow.

Agreed. Bender has also shown some pretty good glimpses of what he could become, especially on the defensive end. Not enough to count on night to night, and his recent starting run has been underwhelming, but he's shown enough to keep the faith for a little longer.

I hear you guys. It's just tough watching him hang his head instead of going harder when he makes a mistake.

[O_Gardino]

so what are the chances Daniels gets invited to the 3pt Shootout. do bench players still get invited , I'm not remembering any since Craig Hodges lol so somebody help me

Eddie Johnson said something very interesting tonight. He said Daniels is the best shooter in Phoenix Suns history! Wow.

Well, by the numbers...

http://bkref.com/tiny/r1BiU

Doesn't exactly scream "BEST IN FRANCHISE HISTORY!" in my reading, but...

Sorting by TS% changes that quite a bit.

http://bkref.com/tiny/n91rQ

You guys remember when Thunder Dan had those 192 3PM in 1994? I think it was a league record at the time, or maybe it was just the Suns record. I was blown away, like "WOW that consistency. That's over 2 every game!"

[Indy]

so what are the chances Daniels gets invited to the 3pt Shootout. do bench players still get invited , I'm not remembering any since Craig Hodges lol so somebody help me

Eddie Johnson said something very interesting tonight. He said Daniels is the best shooter in Phoenix Suns history! Wow.

Well, by the numbers...

http://bkref.com/tiny/r1BiU

Doesn't exactly scream "BEST IN FRANCHISE HISTORY!" in my reading, but...

Sorting by TS% changes that quite a bit.

http://bkref.com/tiny/n91rQ

You guys remember when Thunder Dan had those 192 3PM in 1994? I think it was a league record at the time, or maybe it was just the Suns record. I was blown away, like "WOW that consistency. That's over 2 every game!"

It was a league record at that time. It was broken the year after (and every non-lockout year afterwards up to last season). Current record is 402 (!!) by Curry two years ago.

[specialsauce]

It is absolutely time to fire Ryan

I don't know what Ryan has to do with this game. We were supposed to be bad this year

Seriously? Look at this trash of a roster he’s constructed.

You’ve got 1 great player, 1 good player, and a bunch of absolute trash outside of maybe Jackson- jury is still out on Chriss (attitude) and Bender (testicular fortitude). He IS the reason we’re this bad with absolutely no vision for the future.

Who’s our starting 4 of the future? How about our starting 1 or 5? We’ve missed the playoffs for 7 years now and we STILL only have 1 bonafide core player on this roster.

And you’re wondering what Ryan has to do with this loss?

I’m giving up on Bender. He just doesn’t have “it.” He was born without any fire. I would love more than anything an 0-10 shooting game from him with only 2 threes and 7 turnovers because he was taking it to the hole. I don’t know how someone can consistently play 20-25 mpg in a starting role and manage to put up so little on the box score and have such little effect on the game good or bad. He’s an absolute GHOST.

At least Josh is out there giving it his all. I can live with mistakes. I can’t live with Bender’s sissy ass demeanor. He makes Boris Diaw look like a chucker.

Haha, didn't mean to set you off. I know you don't like our team and I won't argue that. I just think this game was more about our players, outside of Monroe and Jackson, playing well below their norm.

McD hasn't put a good product out there yet and he deserves a lot of blame but you can't look at this like it's been building for 5 years with nothing to show. We've basically had two teams. The way overachieving dragic-bledsoe squad that added IT and fell apart. We broke that team up and started over. This new squad is in year 3 and to expect them to be a playoff team is just silly.

I wish Bender/Jackson/Chriss we're further along but I'm not giving up on them, they're only 20, but it sounds like you have so I won't bother trying to change your mind.

Come on man, It’s Ryan’s fault we blew that team up and have trash to show for it. None of these guys look like top 5 players on a playoff team, and with respect to what was given up for them and where they were selected, that is absolutely unacceptable. Time for Ryan to go

[specialsauce]

... Bender (testicular fortitude) ...

9/10, I chuckled and proceeded to smile for a solid minute

[Split T]

It is absolutely time to fire Ryan

I don't know what Ryan has to do with this game. We were supposed to be bad this year

Seriously? Look at this trash of a roster he’s constructed.

You’ve got 1 great player, 1 good player, and a bunch of absolute trash outside of maybe Jackson- jury is still out on Chriss (attitude) and Bender (testicular fortitude). He IS the reason we’re this bad with absolutely no vision for the future.

Who’s our starting 4 of the future? How about our starting 1 or 5? We’ve missed the playoffs for 7 years now and we STILL only have 1 bonafide core player on this roster.

And you’re wondering what Ryan has to do with this loss?

I’m giving up on Bender. He just doesn’t have “it.” He was born without any fire. I would love more than anything an 0-10 shooting game from him with only 2 threes and 7 turnovers because he was taking it to the hole. I don’t know how someone can consistently play 20-25 mpg in a starting role and manage to put up so little on the box score and have such little effect on the game good or bad. He’s an absolute GHOST.

At least Josh is out there giving it his all. I can live with mistakes. I can’t live with Bender’s sissy ass demeanor. He makes Boris Diaw look like a chucker.

Haha, didn't mean to set you off. I know you don't like our team and I won't argue that. I just think this game was more about our players, outside of Monroe and Jackson, playing well below their norm.

McD hasn't put a good product out there yet and he deserves a lot of blame but you can't look at this like it's been building for 5 years with nothing to show. We've basically had two teams. The way overachieving dragic-bledsoe squad that added IT and fell apart. We broke that team up and started over. This new squad is in year 3 and to expect them to be a playoff team is just silly.

I wish Bender/Jackson/Chriss we're further along but I'm not giving up on them, they're only 20, but it sounds like you have so I won't bother trying to change your mind.

Come on man, It’s Ryan’s fault we blew that team up and have trash to show for it. None of these guys look like top 5 players on a playoff team, and with respect to what was given up for them and where they were selected, that is absolutely unacceptable. Time for Ryan to go

I agree, Ryan made a lot of mistakes with that first team, just saying we already gave him a second chance after that and I don't think we've given him enough time to build the team again. I'm willing to let him see it through.

What I mean by that is let's pretend he took over the team in 2015 and started with that draft instead of 2013. So from when he drafted Booker. In that scenario, I don't think this team has had enough time to be built and are probably about where you would expect.

That being said, you do have to consider the whole picture to determine if you want to keep McD around. I wouldn't be upset if we parted ways with him, he hasn't impressed me, but I'm not calling for his head either. I'm in the camp that thinks sarver is the real problem and I think some of McD's decisions have been forced upon him by sarver.

[Cap]

It is absolutely time to fire Ryan

I don't know what Ryan has to do with this game. We were supposed to be bad this year

Seriously? Look at this trash of a roster he’s constructed.

You’ve got 1 great player, 1 good player, and a bunch of absolute trash outside of maybe Jackson- jury is still out on Chriss (attitude) and Bender (testicular fortitude). He IS the reason we’re this bad with absolutely no vision for the future.

Who’s our starting 4 of the future? How about our starting 1 or 5? We’ve missed the playoffs for 7 years now and we STILL only have 1 bonafide core player on this roster.

And you’re wondering what Ryan has to do with this loss?

I’m giving up on Bender. He just doesn’t have “it.” He was born without any fire. I would love more than anything an 0-10 shooting game from him with only 2 threes and 7 turnovers because he was taking it to the hole. I don’t know how someone can consistently play 20-25 mpg in a starting role and manage to put up so little on the box score and have such little effect on the game good or bad. He’s an absolute GHOST.

At least Josh is out there giving it his all. I can live with mistakes. I can’t live with Bender’s sissy ass demeanor. He makes Boris Diaw look like a chucker.

Haha, didn't mean to set you off. I know you don't like our team and I won't argue that. I just think this game was more about our players, outside of Monroe and Jackson, playing well below their norm.

McD hasn't put a good product out there yet and he deserves a lot of blame but you can't look at this like it's been building for 5 years with nothing to show. We've basically had two teams. The way overachieving dragic-bledsoe squad that added IT and fell apart. We broke that team up and started over. This new squad is in year 3 and to expect them to be a playoff team is just silly.

I wish Bender/Jackson/Chriss we're further along but I'm not giving up on them, they're only 20, but it sounds like you have so I won't bother trying to change your mind.

Come on man, It’s Ryan’s fault we blew that team up and have trash to show for it. None of these guys look like top 5 players on a playoff team, and with respect to what was given up for them and where they were selected, that is absolutely unacceptable. Time for Ryan to go

I agree that Ryan hasn't gotten great value in trades overall, and the AASE trade may go down as one of the worst in franchise history. But I think you're being too harsh on his drafting record. The players drafted after Len, Warren, and Bender/Chriss aren't much better. (Yes, I know, Bender was drafted #4 overall, but considering who else was on the board when we drafted, that doesn't mean much.) And it's too early to say that JJ was the wrong pick. McD's drafting may not be stellar, but it's not a glaring weakness.

[In2ition]

What a s*** show. If I had paid to see that game I'd have been pissed.

I am trying to find positive things about that game but there aren't many because most of the stats were padded after the Pacers were up 40.

They did a pretty good job defensively covering Booker and making him give the ball up and Warren didn't really step up enough to take any pressure off.

Bender sucks. I know we are still trying to be patient with him but he's played 92 games now and has had maybe 10 good games I'd say. It's just not enough for a guy who's been playing professionally since like 15 right? He's way closer to the Nikolas Tskitisvili end of the spectrum than anything else right now. He was invisible out there.

I think if Canaan is on the team still after the trade deadline then it will symbolize a very underwhelming deadline. I'm fine with bringing another G Leaguer in at this point. He puts up 16 pts about every 4th game. Other games he like 2-7 or 2-9.

Getting down 40 to the Pacers isn't OK. I was leaning towards keeping Triano just for some continuity but now I'm leaning away from it.

I'm admittedly a bi-polar fan, so I tend to agree with everything you said, especially about Bender. I know I need to be patient, but I'm losing patience when the Suns got beat down that badly. The 1st team didn't look like they even tried to show up.

[specialsauce]

I absolutely think it's a glaring weakness. You don't draft in a vacuum. The dude first put together a team with 3 PGs and they weren't happy.

Then he went and drafted 2 small forwards, and 2 power forwards. We have no PG, no C. He has no clue how to build a team.