NK/US Tensions Heat Up

[Nodack]

It looks like Trump and Kim want to meet. Good or bad idea? I heard yesterday that Kim wants to make a peace treaty with Trump. But NK has been notorious for going back on its word in these kinds of negotiations.

Terrible idea.

The whole point of not meeing KJU in the past is that it gives him and his authoritiarian regime more legitimacy. North Korea will never bomb the US or US ally without being directly attacked first. They are not a terrorist state out to push some sort of greater ideology a la ISIS. They just want sactions lifted.

Let's not forget that Trump likely knows next to nothing about the politics of this situation. The US doesn't even have an ambassador in South Korea right now.

The US policy should be to let the South Korean government deal with the situation first. As an American living in South Korea, I find the average American's insistance on being involved in this matter over the wishes of the Korean people to be embarassing.

Trump wants to rip up the Iran deal because he says they cannot be trusted. Iran has shown in the past that they will make deals and go back on their word. It's a pretty valid claim but, this last deal is between the US, China, Russia, France, Germany, UK, etc. It may not stop them but it might slow them down.

NK has done almost the exact same thing. They make deals and go back on their word later on. My point is that why is the Iran deal bad and a possible NK deal good if they both cannot be trusted? My answer/opinion is that Trump didn't make the Iran deal. Obama did. The NK deal would be different because Trump did it. I am channeling Trump of course.

As far as the US wanting to be involved. We have been heavily involved since the Korean War. It's all part of the stopping Communism from spreading movement like in Vietnam. Over 30k Americans died in Korea. We have 20k+ troops stationed on the front line at this moment. NK threatens not just SK. They threaten Japan and the US regularly with nuclear annihilation. The SK people certainly have a right to want to reconcile with NK and be part of the negotiations. All they have to do is bend a knee to Kim Jong and accept his rule and they can reconcile tomorrow. All of Korea would be under Kim Jong-un's rule right now if it wasn't for the US intervention IMO. I think the US does have a right to be involved because we have a stake in it too and are a super power.

Trump won't care about what SK wants. I doubt he could find it on a map. His motivations I suspect are based on his ego. Deflect from the Russia thing and be the hero who personally saved the world.

[Flagrant Fowl]

As far as the US wanting to be involved. We have been heavily involved since the Korean War. It's all part of the stopping Communism from spreading movement like in Vietnam. Over 30k Americans died in Korea. We have 20k+ troops stationed on the front line at this moment. NK threatens not just SK. They threaten Japan and the US regularly with nuclear annihilation. The SK people certainly have a right to want to reconcile with NK and be part of the negotiations. All they have to do is bend a knee to Kim Jong and accept his rule and they can reconcile tomorrow. All of Korea would be under Kim Jong-un's rule right now if it wasn't for the US intervention IMO. I think the US does have a right to be involved because we have a stake in it too and are a super power.

I disagree with almost all of this, but I understand your perspective because it was similar to my own before I started living in Korea.

For one, who's still worried about Communism? It's clear that it doesn't work in the itteration it existed during the Korean War. Anyone still using that form of Communism as a talking point is either a moron or lying to you.

The US troops in South Korea are no different than those in other military stations across the world, it's a part of our "global policing" strategy. Is it a duty of being a Super Power? Maybe, but I sure as hell don't want America playing that role with our current White House leaders.

All they have to do is bend a knee to Kim Jong and accept his rule and they can reconcile tomorrow. All of Korea would be under Kim Jong-un's rule right now if it wasn't for the US intervention IMO.

South Korea has a mandatory two year military service policy for all Korean men. The military awareness of the average Korean man is up for debate, but they're by no means unprepared to handle themselves alone or with minimal US assistance against North Korea.

This also sounds exactly like American news fear mongering. It's so far from the truth. What makes you think South Korea doesn't have the better technology and military infrastructure? Sure, NK could do some dammage in a war situation, but the "bend the knee to KJU" claim is completely out of touch with the current politcal and military interactions between the nations.

The only stake the US has in the situation is an economic one. The government, and especially people like Trump, don't give a damn about inter Korean relations. They're involved for mainly economic reasons and historically keeping an eye on China.

[Nodack]

I'm not worried about Communism but, there was a time when a lot of people were worried for good reason. Communism was expanding and they were using force to take over countries such as Korea and Vietnam. The US was totally paranoid and willing to use force to stop the spread. Was that the right stance? Who knows? A lot of people died. Would it have turned out better if the US turned away and allowed Korea to be taken over? There isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that NK would have won the war without the US intervention in the 1950's. There would be no SK, just a Communist Korea.

You are talking about today. Today SK is strong, has a healthy economy, infrastructure and manufacturing base. Their military is very strong and can handle themselves for the most part. I say the most part because there will be no winners if they do come to blows again.

Sure, NK could do some dammage in a war situation, but the "bend the knee to KJU" claim is completely out of touch with the current politcal and military interactions between the nations.

I was talking about NK and SK joining making up and becoming one country again and that won't happen unless SK bends a knee or they invade NK and take out KJU. I didn't mean to offend SK military.

The only stake the US has in the situation is an economic one.

I still disagree. SK is backed by the US. NK is backed by China. We had the war won in the 50's and pushed NK all the way to the Chinese border and then a million Chinese soldiers poured in with guns blazing. A lot has changed over the years. We are China's biggest trading partner now but, they still aren't our ally. They are quietly building up their military and even building islands out of sand to make military bases to enforce their claims on disputed areas. China likes NK as a buffer from the West.

NK could do some dammage in a war situation

Both countries have a LOT of military hardware aimed at each other that I fear it would just be a bloodbath. Add in nukes and it's unthinkable. Add in China, US, Russia and the West and it's the end of the world as we know it.

NK just wants sanctions lifted? The US just wants NK to stop it's nuclear program.

So the US should pull all of it's troops out of SK and ignore Korea altogether? Maybe SK has grown up and doesn't need big brother US to protect it anymore. Maybe KJU isn't as evil as people make him out to be. Maybe he would never use nukes.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm not worried about Communism but, there was a time when a lot of people were worried for good reason. Communism was expanding and they were using force to take over countries such as Korea and Vietnam. The US was totally paranoid and willing to use force to stop the spread. Was that the right stance? Who knows? A lot of people died. Would it have turned out better if the US turned away and allowed Korea to be taken over? There isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that NK would have won the war without the US intervention in the 1950's. There would be no SK, just a Communist Korea.

That time has come and gone. It holds only marginal significance today, but even so, the idea of current SK or Communist Korea is hypothetical. Japan wouldn't have backed down from occupying Korea if the US didn't control both nations for at least a short period of time after WWII and the Korean War.

You are talking about today. Today SK is strong, has a healthy economy, infrastructure and manufacturing base. Their military is very strong and can handle themselves for the most part. I say the most part because there will be no winners if they do come to blows again.

Today and tomorrow are what's most important. If a war does break out, everyone but Koreans will come out ahead. Always remember that Koreans, North and South, consider themselves Korean before anything else. This is especially true for the middle aged and older generations.

I was talking about NK and SK joining making up and becoming one country again and that won't happen unless SK bends a knee or they invade NK and take out KJU. I didn't mean to offend SK military.

You're right to a degree. While I think the wording "bends a knee" is a bit strong, any unification must include a joint government with both nations. But isn't that the definition of compromise? On the other hand, if inter Korean relations gradually become more peaceful, there's a chance that the government after KJU could be more easily assimilated into the Western friendly SK government.

I still disagree. SK is backed by the US. NK is backed by China. We had the war won in the 50's and pushed NK all the way to the Chinese border and then a million Chinese soldiers poured in with guns blazing. A lot has changed over the years. We are China's biggest trading partner now but, they still aren't our ally. They are quietly building up their military and even building islands out of sand to make military bases to enforce their claims on disputed areas. China likes NK as a buffer from the West.

You're right. You'll never hear anyone from our government say this explicitly, but it's 100% true. Just read between the lines on the THAAD situation that's been ongoing for the last year or more. It's has a little to do with NK, but more to do with China.

Both countries have a LOT of military hardware aimed at each other that I fear it would just be a bloodbath. Add in nukes and it's unthinkable. Add in China, US, Russia and the West and it's the end of the world as we know it.

The armament is just posturing by everyone. It could lead to a WWIII situation, but I'm not holding my breath.

NK just wants sanctions lifted? The US just wants NK to stop it's nuclear program.

That's not at all true. The US has been leading sanctions against NK long before their nuclear program became an issue. Even then, so what if they have a nuclear program? I find it hypocritical that the US can dictate which countries can and cannot develop nuclear technology. From the NK perspective, the US (and UN) created this nuclear issue in the first place by putting NK into a corner for decades with their economic sanctions. Did they deserve those sanctions in the first place? Maybe. Probably. But I think the entire situation was mishandled over the long term and now we're here.

So the US should pull all of it's troops out of SK and ignore Korea altogether? Maybe SK has grown up and doesn't need big brother US to protect it anymore. Maybe KJU isn't as evil as people make him out to be. Maybe he would never use nukes.

The US won't ever pull out all of it's troops from any place that it has already established a base. Look at the shit show in the Middle East as an example. We're never leaving those places, for better or worse.

KJU is an asshole. He is evil, but I strongly believe that he'll never use a nuclear weapon without being directly attacked first.

[Mori Chu]

Big updates: North Korea announces that it'll put an end to its nuclear testing program.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nort ... SKBN1HR37J

BUT! It looks like it may be that the program came to an end anyway due to a catastrophic accident at their facility that left most of their missiles and materials ruined and killed almost all (200+) of their top nuclear scientists. Wow.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/1 ... -200-dead/

Kim Jong Un says that he is open to peace with SK and the world, which is great. But he has said so before and lied:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/09/asia ... index.html

Interesting stuff.

[Nodack]

I read those articles. It sounds promising. I read where 200 laborers were killed in the mine shaft collapse. I didn’t see anywhere where their scientists were killed. If they were killed I could see where that would put a damper in their program and make NK want to change their stance.

We have seen NK make promises before. I am cautiously optimistic. I’m sure Trump will claim all the credit if it happens and blame Hillary or Obama if it doesn’t. I don’t care.

[ShelC]

I think they're taking a page out of the Iran playbook.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Maybe, just maybe, people will stop getting up my ass about living in Korea if the Korean war is "officially" ended. Okay, probably not because KJU will eventually pull some of his typical shit later when he needs more attention.

[Nodack]

It’s over!

Almost too good to be true. And they agree to a denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. 65 years! Now what?

[Mori Chu]

Regardless of the politics and spin and who tries to take credit for this, it is great news for NK, SK, and the world.

[ShelC]

I will say...I feel like this news has flown under the radar and isn't getting the attention it deserves. Maybe people don't trust NK and think it's just more talk. Or, maybe, the mainstream media doesn't want the Trump admin to get any credit or be seen in a positive light. But I do suspect if this had happened under Obama, he'd be getting another Nobel Peace Prize.

[Mori Chu]

I will say...I feel like this news has flown under the radar and isn't getting the attention it deserves. Maybe people don't trust NK and think it's just more talk. Or, maybe, the mainstream media doesn't want the Trump admin to get any credit or be seen in a positive light. But I do suspect if this had happened under Obama, he'd be getting another Nobel Peace Prize.

That may be true. But IMO, Trump did not do anything constructive or positive to lead to this peace between NK and SK. The most you could say he's done is to threaten WW3 and threaten to bomb/nuke NK. But I don't think that has helped the situation nor has it led to the peace agreement we're seeing now. I think this peace is much more about NK having their nuclear facility collapse in a horrific accident a few months ago, along with NK's economy being in an awful state, along with the Olympics causing NK and SK to build unity.

[Nodack]

It’s probably a combination of those things. Obama was a known peaceful cautious man and NK would know he isn’t capable of a preemptive strike. I do think Trump being known as an unpredictable loose cannon threatening NK did scare Rocketman and might have helped lead to his decision to make peace. Of course Trump will take 100% of the credit and like he always does. CNN has mentioned several times that if this goes through does Trump deserve the peace prize?

I do think this hasn’t been covered as much as it perhaps should. NK has in the past been known as a country that doesn’t hold up it’s promises and people are a little sceptical. I am too. Rocketman is a known murderer of anybody who isn’t 100% obedient. He’s killed family members even. It’s hard for me to fathom him opening his country up to the world and allowing any freedoms in his country. Ending the war doesn’t mean any of that will happen. It just means they will go from Defcon 3 to Defcon 1.

[Flagrant Fowl]

You guys realize that "this hasn't been covered as much" or "this is under the radar" because it's about peace and progress, not war and nuclear winters, right?

[ShelC]

Touche.

[SDC]

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