2018 Suns Offseason News

[Split T]

Do the exercise of trying to disprove the above:

* Who is above average at shooting on our roster? Booker, yes. Daniels, sometimes. Who else?

* Who is above average at rebounding on our roster? Chandler. Williams. (Arguably neither guy is going to get a ton of minutes for us next year.) Who else?

* Who is above average at passing/assists on our roster? Ulis. Maybe Jackson, for his position. That's it?

* Who is above average at defense on our roster? Jackson? Chandler? Dudley? Oof.

This is a really broken team.

Booker and Daniels are above average shooters.

Chandler, Williams, Len were all great rebounders. Jackson, Payton, Harrison, even Chriss are at least average to maybe above average. Rebounding is not our issue.

Assists are a problem but I think that has more to do with the system than the players. Booker, ulis, Jackson, Bender, Dudley, Chriss have all shown some passing skill. I think we'll see assists go up fairly significantly with Igor's system.

Defense is a big issue. Jackson has potential as a defender, Harrison was good defensively, but we need a lot of help here. I thought Chriss was actually pretty good defensively last year, although that's compared to a pretty bad rookie season.

Defense and shooting are my two biggest concerns.

I fully agree with the very bottom statement.

I do not agree that Chandler or Len were great at anything. I'd say 3 or 4 rebounds a game came straight to Chandler where no one else tried. I also understand that maybe this happens in other games with other players as well but as old as Chandler is, I just can't cosign a label of great rebounder. Len's hands have always sucked. You can't have clubs for hands and have a title of great rebounder.

Harrison could be a key to fixing defense but is he good enough at anything else to be on a winning team?

If they qualified in minutes played, Len and Chandler would have been 8th in the NBA in rebound percentage. They had their issues and you can explain away some of it, but you don't get to 8th without being a great rebounder.

[specialsauce]

Do the exercise of trying to disprove the above:

* Who is above average at shooting on our roster? Booker, yes. Daniels, sometimes. Who else?

* Who is above average at rebounding on our roster? Chandler. Williams. (Arguably neither guy is going to get a ton of minutes for us next year.) Who else?

* Who is above average at passing/assists on our roster? Ulis. Maybe Jackson, for his position. That's it?

* Who is above average at defense on our roster? Jackson? Chandler? Dudley? Oof.

This is a really broken team.

Booker and Daniels are above average shooters.

Chandler, Williams, Len were all great rebounders. Jackson, Payton, Harrison, even Chriss are at least average to maybe above average. Rebounding is not our issue.

Assists are a problem but I think that has more to do with the system than the players. Booker, ulis, Jackson, Bender, Dudley, Chriss have all shown some passing skill. I think we'll see assists go up fairly significantly with Igor's system.

Defense is a big issue. Jackson has potential as a defender, Harrison was good defensively, but we need a lot of help here. I thought Chriss was actually pretty good defensively last year, although that's compared to a pretty bad rookie season.

Defense and shooting are my two biggest concerns.

I fully agree with the very bottom statement.

I do not agree that Chandler or Len were great at anything. I'd say 3 or 4 rebounds a game came straight to Chandler where no one else tried. I also understand that maybe this happens in other games with other players as well but as old as Chandler is, I just can't cosign a label of great rebounder. Len's hands have always sucked. You can't have clubs for hands and have a title of great rebounder.

Harrison could be a key to fixing defense but is he good enough at anything else to be on a winning team?

If they qualified in minutes played, Len and Chandler would have been 8th in the NBA in rebound percentage. They had their issues and you can explain away some of it, but you don't get to 8th without being a great rebounder.

I agree they’re good rebounders. I just don’t think players who’s only skill is to rebound and dunk are valuable at all.

[Split T]

Ya I'll be happy if neither play next year.

[Cap]

Len should definitely play next year, just not for us.

[Superbone]

There's no question in my mind that Len will be on a roster next year and get over 10 minutes per game playing time. I wouldn't be surprised if it's 20+ minutes per game.

[Split T]

Ya, I just meant for us

[Superbone]

Ya, I just meant for us

Yeah, I think we all knew what you meant. I think we may regret it though. I think Kokoskov might have been able to get more out of him.

[Split T]

It's possible. Len actually showed some glimpses of being able to pass on the short roll. My 4 biggest issues with him :

1) He never developed a consistent jump shot
2) Not mobile enough to switch on the perimeter
3) Not elite defending the rim
4) Too inconsistent in the post

Give me two of those...I don't care which two and I'd be happy to keep him.

[Ring_Wanted]

Ya, I just meant for us

Yeah, I think we all knew what you meant. I think we may regret it though. I think Kokoskov might have been able to get more out of him.

Do you regret letting RoLo go? Len would be lucky to have a career like Lopez's. And although I don't doubt he has some ability that should be useful under the right coach/system, I won't lose any sleep if it is not with the Suns. He is as replaceable as they come and I am ready to give some other young guy a chance via draft. Besides, I really like Big Sauce.

[Ring_Wanted]

It's possible. Len actually showed some glimpses of being able to pass on the short roll. My 4 biggest issues with him :

1) He never developed a consistent jump shot
2) Not mobile enough to switch on the perimeter
3) Not elite defending the rim
4) Too inconsistent in the post

Give me two of those...I don't care which two and I'd be happy to keep him.

Those hands, man. That's the main issue to me. That and his tendency to play small in the paint.

[Split T]

Len just doesn't have the skills of a modern big. He'd be pretty unplayable in a playoff series against most top teams.

Gobert works because he's elite at defending the rim. Still, his effectiveness was limited because Houston kept stretching him out in the pick n roll or getting him switched onto Paul or Harden.

Teams would just do the same to Len and we'd give up layups at the rim if we switched or wide open 12 footers if Len dropped back.

You can live with that if he makes up for it on offense, but Len doesn't. He can't shoot outside the paint, drops a lot of passes on the roll, and can't finish through contact in the post.

[Ring_Wanted]

Yep. 15-20 mpg role player depending on the matchup. I am actually curious to see who pays him and how much.

[Split T]

Ya I see him as a situational player. When you need 6 fouls and ok defense against big post guys. He won't be able to guard the mobile beasts like Embiid, KAT, Cousins. But he can come in and defend Drummond, Jordan, valunciunas, Adams, etc. And at least keep them from grabbing every rebound and just catching lobs.

He's just unplayable against many modern 5's like Porzingis and AD

[Indy]

I think consistency will help him a lot. He had 3 coaches in 5 years, with two mid-year coaching changes, and all 3 coaches tried to use him differently. That is not a recipe for development.

[Superbone]

I think consistency will help him a lot. He had 3 coaches in 5 years, with two mid-year coaching changes, and all 3 coaches tried to use him differently. That is not a recipe for development.

This.

[Split T]

Maybe, I just don't know what he's going to develop into. Best case scenario he becomes Jonas Valunciunas? Not worth it in my opinion. Plus he's like 25 or 26 now. There's probably 10 bigs in this draft I'd rather try and develop. I just don't see Len ever being more than a situational player on a good team.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Ya, I just meant for us

Yeah, I think we all knew what you meant. I think we may regret it though. I think Kokoskov might have been able to get more out of him.

Maybe, but I still prefer to see him do good somewhere else. Sometimes that is all you need, getting fired in order to start producing up to your potential, after you kept dragging your feet for an organization that has already lowered their expectations on you, and both sides fall in a stalemate of MUTUAL dissapointment (wich I believe is the current situation here, dating back a year at least). Coach Kov arrived two years late for Len.

Extending a contract to Len this summer, is like going for your 3rd or 4th child hoping it would mend a broken marriage. Of course it could work out well, most likely it won't.

[Indy]

Oh, I don't think we should sign him for $10M a year. I think it is better for him to go somewhere else. But I fully expect him to be a decent center in the league next year, playing ~20 mpg.

[Ring_Wanted]

I think consistency will help him a lot. He had 3 coaches in 5 years, with two mid-year coaching changes, and all 3 coaches tried to use him differently. That is not a recipe for development.

At the same time, he has been tried in a variety of roles, from screener and finisher to midrange shooter to even passer from the top and he has not shined offensively. His rebounding and defense close to the rim are not enough to warrant a contract when you have the draft and you could find a better big man prospect . Every year you have some less-heralded specimens. Spending resources on Len is not a sound option at this point for the Suns, even if the player says he'd love to come back. I am ready for gambling on another kid.

[Superbone]

I guess then we can consider that pick a failed pick. A wasted #5 pick in the draft hurts.