With the FIRST pick in the 2018 NBA draft, the Phoenix Suns select...

[Indy]

Bamba, 6'11", 225
FT % 68.1%
BPG 3.7!

Ayton, 7'1", 250
FT % 73%
BPG 1.9

I think you are using Ayton's height in shows, and Bamba barefoot. He measured over 7' in shoes at the combine. And how in the heck does Ayton only have a 7' wingspan when he is 7'1"? Short arms?

[Cap]

Bamba, 6'11", 225
FT % 68.1%
BPG 3.7!

Ayton, 7'1", 250
FT % 73%
BPG 1.9

I think you are using Ayton's height in shows, and Bamba barefoot. He measured over 7' in shoes at the combine. And how in the heck does Ayton only have a 7' wingspan when he is 7'1"? Short arms?

Ayton’s wingspan has been reported as 7’5”.

Never ask Google for a wingspan. For some reason, they round to the nearest foot.

[Superbone]

"The best way to beat Golden State is probably not to out-Golden State them."
Erik Spoelstra

Something to think about for you #1 Doncic people.

[Indy]

"The best way to beat Golden State is probably not to out-Golden State them."
Erik Spoelstra

Something to think about for you #1 Doncic people.

I don't think Doncic does anything like the starting 5 on GS.

[Indy]

Bamba, 6'11", 225
FT % 68.1%
BPG 3.7!

Ayton, 7'1", 250
FT % 73%
BPG 1.9

I think you are using Ayton's height in shows, and Bamba barefoot. He measured over 7' in shoes at the combine. And how in the heck does Ayton only have a 7' wingspan when he is 7'1"? Short arms?

Ayton’s wingspan has been reported as 7’5”.

Never ask Google for a wingspan. For some reason, they round to the nearest foot.

It was from wikipedia. Not sure why. I did see his 7'4.5" after looking around. But I also saw he was 7'0" in shoes, not 7'1". Not sure which is accurate, since he skipped the combine.

[INFORMER]

"The best way to beat Golden State is probably not to out-Golden State them."
Erik Spoelstra

Something to think about for you #1 Doncic people.

That's just lazy.

[iLLmatic]

"The best way to beat Golden State is probably not to out-Golden State them."
Erik Spoelstra

Something to think about for you #1 Doncic people.

We aren't beating the Warriors any time soon so making a draft decision on that is silly.

[Superbone]

"The best way to beat Golden State is probably not to out-Golden State them."
Erik Spoelstra

Something to think about for you #1 Doncic people.

We aren't beating the Warriors any time soon so making a draft decision on that is silly.

Four years from now is fine with me.

[INFORMER]

I don't think I have seen anyone advocate Doncic as the way to beat the Warriors. Honestly, by the time the Suns are contending, we'll probably be talking about how to beat Milwaukee or Boston.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I don't think I have seen anyone advocate Doncic as the way to beat the Warriors. Honestly, by the time the Suns are contending, we'll probably be talking about how to beat Milwaukee or Boston.

But people are saying that going with Ayton is a choice that doesn't match with how the league is trending. I think it's more of an anti-Ayton than anything to do with Doncic.

[O_Gardino]

I don't think I have seen anyone advocate Doncic as the way to beat the Warriors. Honestly, by the time the Suns are contending, we'll probably be talking about how to beat Milwaukee or Boston.

But people are saying that going with Ayton is a choice that doesn't match with how the league is trending. I think it's more of an anti-Ayton than anything to do with Doncic.

And some people in the the pro-Ayton crowd interpret "how the league is trending" to mean "I want to copy the Warriors."

[Mori Chu]

I don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.

The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.

I don't care at all about beating the Warriors. As others have said, they won't be the same team any more by the time we are (hopefully) trying to contend. Also, a Houston team that plays a very similar style to the Warriors just came one bad quarter away from beating Golden State and advancing to the Finals. They have only one big man of any import on the roster, Capela, and he's a role player. I don't know how one could look at this WCF and conclude that "nobody is ever going to out-Warriors the Warriors." It just came a few shots away from happening.

The other thing is, the one team that *has* beaten the Warriors, Lebron's Cavs, was led not by some bruising center but by Lebron, a small forward in Karl Malone's body, along with an elite shoot-first PG in Kyrie Irving, and a 3-point-shooting, rebounding, role-playing PF in Kevin Love.

[Cap]

I don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.

The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.

It's also about evolution in skills. There are a lot more three-point threats in the league today, especially among big men, than there used to be. Putting two or even all three front court players behind the arc is a lot more practical than it used to be.

[Indy]

I don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.

The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.

I don't care at all about beating the Warriors. As others have said, they won't be the same team any more by the time we are (hopefully) trying to contend. Also, a Houston team that plays a very similar style to the Warriors just came one bad quarter away from beating Golden State and advancing to the Finals. They have only one big man of any import on the roster, Capela, and he's a role player. I don't know how one could look at this WCF and conclude that "nobody is ever going to out-Warriors the Warriors." It just came a few shots away from happening.

The other thing is, the one team that *has* beaten the Warriors, Lebron's Cavs, was led not by some bruising center but by Lebron, a small forward in Karl Malone's body, along with an elite shoot-first PG in Kyrie Irving, and a 3-point-shooting, rebounding, role-playing PF in Kevin Love.

I don't see the Rockets as playing anything like the warriors. I guess you could say they both shoot a lot of 3s, but that is about it.

[JCSunsfan]

I don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.

The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.

It's also about evolution in skills. There are a lot more three-point threats in the league today, especially among big men, than there used to be. Putting two or even all three front court players behind the arc is a lot more practical than it used to be.

However, Houston sure could have used a little inside offense when they were going 0 for a kazillion in game 7. The three point shot is here to stay, but as defenses adjust, the middle will open up again. Yes, its an evolution, but teams adjust. Skill, size, and athleticism all still matter--a lot.

[Superbone]

I don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.

The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.

I don't care at all about beating the Warriors. As others have said, they won't be the same team any more by the time we are (hopefully) trying to contend. Also, a Houston team that plays a very similar style to the Warriors just came one bad quarter away from beating Golden State and advancing to the Finals. They have only one big man of any import on the roster, Capela, and he's a role player. I don't know how one could look at this WCF and conclude that "nobody is ever going to out-Warriors the Warriors." It just came a few shots away from happening.

The other thing is, the one team that *has* beaten the Warriors, Lebron's Cavs, was led not by some bruising center but by Lebron, a small forward in Karl Malone's body, along with an elite shoot-first PG in Kyrie Irving, and a 3-point-shooting, rebounding, role-playing PF in Kevin Love.

I don't see the Rockets as playing anything like the warriors. I guess you could say they both shoot a lot of 3s, but that is about it.

Yeah, that was weird for Mori to say and contradicts his other Warrior love fest post in the playoffs thread.

[AmareIsGod]

Ayton! I've flip flopped back to my original choice.

[SDC]

ayton is now 54% in the poll
doncic is 44%

go team ayton!

[JustWinBaby]

I don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.

The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.

It's also about evolution in skills. There are a lot more three-point threats in the league today, especially among big men, than there used to be. Putting two or even all three front court players behind the arc is a lot more practical than it used to be.

However, Houston sure could have used a little inside offense when they were going 0 for a kazillion in game 7. The three point shot is here to stay, but as defenses adjust, the middle will open up again. Yes, its an evolution, but teams adjust. Skill, size, and athleticism all still matter--a lot.

Houston did try to take it to the hoop but Houston could have also used more than one playmaker, similar to the Warriors multiple options. With Doncic, Booker, and Jackson (all three projected as very good playmakers) who do you guard. All are capable of taking it to the hoop or shooting from distance. This is in lieu of having a big waiting to get a pass with no one to initiate the offense. Or as INFO so aptly has described, no engine.

If we do draft Ayton, and I think we will. We need a legit player that will be the engine for this team. I just do not know who that is going to be if not Doncic. If I have to watch Ulis for one more season I am going to scream and so should you. I do not see either Booker or Jackson being that engine but legit fantastic secondary playmakers.

I will be happy if we draft Ayton but I also will be very disappointed if we go to camp with no engine for this team. I really do not think we are that far away from at least competing every night, if we can add this very important piece.

[Mori Chu]

I don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert. ...

I don't see the Rockets as playing anything like the warriors. I guess you could say they both shoot a lot of 3s, but that is about it.

Yeah, that was weird for Mori to say and contradicts his other Warrior love fest post in the playoffs thread.

I found this series super interesting. The Warriors had an amazing comeback to win Game 7, and they feel like a dynasty. But at the same time, Houston probably would have beaten them with Chris Paul healthy. So the margin is razor thin. If you're Houston, I'd say you just run back the same team and hope everybody stays healthy for the rematch, right?

In terms of the teams playing similarly, I mostly meant in terms of the places they shoot from. Both heavily favor 3s and layups. I agree that there are still significant differences, such as the iso-heavy style of Houston vs the more motion-based pass-heavy stuff from the Warriors. I'm not an expert so I can't describe their offenses in intricate detail. But I do think the teams are more similar than they are different.