Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18

[UglyTruth]

In-season? Come December, open the trade flood gates. Look to reboot the roster using Ariza, Jackson, Holmes, the Milwaukee pick, Troy Daniels, and the 2019 second rounder.

I think we'll have to wait until December and January for the trade market to open up.

I’m not saying it’s wrong to wait till December/January (as more guys are tradable then which gives us more flexible options) but I think most of this team will have checked out mentally if they keep this same roster till then.

[Indy]

In-season? Come December, open the trade flood gates. Look to reboot the roster using Ariza, Jackson, Holmes, the Milwaukee pick, Troy Daniels, and the 2019 second rounder.

I think we'll have to wait until December and January for the trade market to open up.

I’m not saying it’s wrong to wait till December/January (as more guys are tradable then which gives us more flexible options) but I think most of this team will have checked out mentally if they keep this same roster till then.

Who hasn't checked out yet? Of our top 8 in minutes played:

Code: Select all

                                                        
Rk                  MP eFG% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1    Trevor Ariza  436 .478  72  44  10   5  21  23  133
2   Deandre Ayton  424 .604 138  38   8  10  29  35  207
3    Devin Booker  359 .505  38  64  10   1  46  35  243
4   Isaiah Canaan  343 .478  37  42   9   0  22  33  103
5     T.J. Warren  329 .565  50  14   9  10  14  26  197
6   Mikal Bridges  239 .527  20  12  15   3  12  24   93
7   Ryan Anderson  238 .391  39  16   3   0  10  18   54
8    Josh Jackson  224 .444  26  20   6   8  35  31   87

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/14/2018.

[Wormwood]

Net +/- per 48 ratings. This team is bad. The biggest problem, besides the obvious no point guard, is that there's no one who plays decent defense besides Bridges right now. Jared Dudley, simply based on floor spacing and defense, was one of our top players the past 2 years, because defense.

Here's the thing, though... bad defensive players rarely if ever get better. It's a mindset. You need someone who will kill a mutha ****er before they let them score. Our stars, Ayton, Booker, and Warren, have what ever the opposite of that is. We're not getting better with this as our core. It finally occurred to me that part of the reason we cannot attract FA's is that other NBA players know this. They know that this group is basically a bunch of defenseless losers who will never really amount to much unless isolated on a team where their defensive liabilities can be hidden.

This is part of why Richaun Holmes grades out about as well as Booker by this stat: effort and some sort desire to play defense. At this point, I'd happily trade away everyone but Bridges. Ayton MIGHT get better defensively, but the odds are slim.

MISC Net +/- per 48
1 Bridges, Mikal SF 1.6
5 Holmes, Richaun PF -9.4
10 Booker, Devin SG -9.9
11 Ayton, Deandre C -10.3
7 Anderson, Ryan PF -10.5
12 Canaan, Isaiah PG -13.3
6 Okobo, Elie PG -13.3
13 Warren, TJ SF -14.3
3 Bender, Dragan PF -17.1
15 Ariza, Trevor SF -17.3
14 Jackson, Josh SF -21.7
9 Crawford, Jamal SG -29.7
8 Chandler, Tyson C -36.2
4 Melton, De'Anthony PG -41.5

[ShelC]

The right personnel can compensate for 2 bad defenders like Booker and Ayton. And their offensive gifts can outweigh their bad defense if the other 3 guys are locked in. If we're a halfcourt, grinding team playing thru Booker and Ayton with a PG who can keep his man in front of him, a wing like Bridges to play defense on the perimeter and an athletic shotblocker at PF, we'll be fine.

[Indy]

Net +/- per 48 ratings. This team is bad. The biggest problem, besides the obvious no point guard, is that there's no one who plays decent defense besides Bridges right now. Jared Dudley, simply based on floor spacing and defense, was one of our top players the past 2 years, because defense.

Here's the thing, though... bad defensive players rarely if ever get better. It's a mindset. You need someone who will kill a mutha ****er before they let them score. Our stars, Ayton, Booker, and Warren, have what ever the opposite of that is. We're not getting better with this as our core. It finally occurred to me that part of the reason we cannot attract FA's is that other NBA players know this. They know that this group is basically a bunch of defenseless losers who will never really amount to much unless isolated on a team where their defensive liabilities can be hidden.

This is part of why Richaun Holmes grades out about as well as Booker by this stat: effort and some sort desire to play defense. At this point, I'd happily trade away everyone but Bridges. Ayton MIGHT get better defensively, but the odds are slim.

MISC Net +/- per 48
1 Bridges, Mikal SF 1.6
5 Holmes, Richaun PF -9.4
10 Booker, Devin SG -9.9
11 Ayton, Deandre C -10.3
7 Anderson, Ryan PF -10.5
12 Canaan, Isaiah PG -13.3
6 Okobo, Elie PG -13.3
13 Warren, TJ SF -14.3
3 Bender, Dragan PF -17.1
15 Ariza, Trevor SF -17.3
14 Jackson, Josh SF -21.7
9 Crawford, Jamal SG -29.7
8 Chandler, Tyson C -36.2
4 Melton, De'Anthony PG -41.5

Where did you get these numbers? They look quite a bit different than these from bb-ref.

Code: Select all

                                                    
                               Poss Poss  Poss   Net
Rk             Player  G    MP   Tm  Opp  Pace   PTS
1        Troy Daniels  4  37.5   79   80 101.8  +5.1
2       Mikal Bridges 12 239.5  487  477  96.6  +2.2
3      Richaun Holmes 12 112.7  231  224  96.9  -8.9
4        Devin Booker 10 358.8  714  714  95.5 -10.2
5       Deandre Ayton 13 425.1  836  843  94.8 -10.6
6       Ryan Anderson 11 237.7  463  470  94.2 -11.9
7          Elie Okobo 11 166.4  335  327  95.5 -13.0
8       Isaiah Canaan 12 342.8  675  689  95.5 -13.2
9       Dragan Bender  4  14.5   29   28  94.6 -13.3
10        T.J. Warren 12 329.5  682  675  98.8 -13.8
11       Trevor Ariza 13 436.0  869  871  95.8 -17.4
12       Josh Jackson 13 224.5  453  455  97.1 -21.2
13     Jamal Crawford 11 109.9  233  233 101.7 -28.4
14     Tyson Chandler  7  89.0  191  194 103.8 -35.6
15   DeAnthony Melton  2  22.6   48   50 104.3 -40.4

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/14/2018.

[Cap]

Look pretty similar to me. One’s per 48 minutes and the other’s per 100 possessions, I think.

[Wormwood]

Indy:

Calculated from the numbers here:

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/phoenix-s ... er=0&opp=0

The numbers you cite still tell roughly the same story. I omitted Troy Daniels for lack of playing time.

[AmareIsGod]

Indy:

Calculated from the numbers here:

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/phoenix-s ... er=0&opp=0

The numbers you cite still tell roughly the same story. I omitted Troy Daniels for lack of playing time.

We should probably omit Dudley then too. Guy rode the bench the last 2 years.

[Indy]

Look pretty similar to me. One’s per 48 minutes and the other’s per 100 possessions, I think.

The ones from BB-ref were per 48 as well. That is why I was confused. Similar, but different.