Game Day: Suns (3-13) @ Bulls (4-13), Wed 11/21/18

[Superbone]

I'm sure management sold Ariza on the myth that he was coming to an improving team with a bright future.
After playing for championship contenders, it has to be frustrating for him to find himself in this hot mess.

"And again, you draft two SFs the past two years and then say, "We need a veteran SF for 15mil"? "
Sort of like drafting two project power forwards in the same draft ...

And bringing together 3 alpha point guards. Now we have none. Whatever advanced metrics he was using were crap.

[Shabazz]

Fitting that Shaq was a big part of the reason we lost last night because this franchise is dumb.

[Cap]

Ayton gets another double-double.
Big deal.
At this rate, he's more Walt Bellamy than David Robinson ...

Bellamy trivia:

As a rookie, averaged 31 & 19 and led the league in FG%.

In 1968-69, played in 88 regular season games, still an NBA record.

[gosuns]

We need a floor leader at PG and better Team Defense. Booker and Warren are premier scorers in this league, but we are like an Orchester without a director. Ayton is a premier interior scorer, but we have no one who can feature him. We have some other young players we can develop to be contributers. (Bridges, Holmes, Jackson, Okobo, Melton) On Defense we need a better defensive concept. I would like, as a team, to pressure more the Ballhandler and the strong side. Often when our defenders get beat, our second line of defense is too far away to help, which leads us to always be late on rotations and the defense to break down. The Team has to be more „compact“ on Defense. Driving on us is way too easy.

[JeremyG]

Fitting that Shaq was a big part of the reason we lost last night because this franchise is dumb.

I would rather have kept Shaq than Canaan.

[JeremyG]

Among players who have played at least 10 games, Mikal Bridges is leading the league in steals per 36 minutes, with 2.6. Overall, he is #24 in steals per game with 1.5, #2 among rookies.

[INFORMER]

Fitting that Shaq was a big part of the reason we lost last night because this franchise is dumb.

I would rather have kept Shaq than Canaan.

Canaan outplayed him in preseason. Shaq was given the chance, but didn't do anything with it. Shaq is a superior athlete and defender, but he can't shoot and doesn't have much skill at playing point. You can't make an argument that the Suns should have gone with upside, but Canaan played better on the court.

[Drewsprocket]

I hate that this is where Sarver led the team. The suns would have been bettter off having kept Dragic for his career without ever having brought in Isiah Thomas or replacing Bledsoe with Knight.

[Shabazz]

Fitting that Shaq was a big part of the reason we lost last night because this franchise is dumb.

I would rather have kept Shaq than Canaan.

Canaan outplayed him in preseason. Shaq was given the chance, but didn't do anything with it. Shaq is a superior athlete and defender, but he can't shoot and doesn't have much skill at playing point. You can't make an argument that the Suns should have gone with upside, but Canaan played better on the court.

I think Shaq would have looked a lot better next to Booker (and Bridges) and he didn’t get to show that in the preseason. He’s not someone that can share a backcourt with Josh Jackson.

He showed much better chemistry with Ayton than Canaan has as well and wouldn’t have greatly helped our point-of-attack defensive issues.

I’m comfortable saying we’d have more wins by now if we kept him over Canaan, who does not have a single plus skill.

[O_Gardino]

It's not even about him being a "go-to" guy, it's about his supposed impact as a vet. As you said, he's a complementary player so his impact is minimal without someone to get him easy/open shots. If we had drafted Fox as our PG (or had anyone competent at point), then I could see the value in Ariza as a veteran shooter and defender who's been battle tested and could hit big shots in winning time. But there's hardly any been any winning time this season.

And again, you draft two SFs the past two years and then say, "We need a veteran SF for 15mil"?

Just a useless signing for all those reasons and...

If Ariza could hit big shots come winning time, he would still be playing for the NBA champion Houston Rockets.

I actually think his individual defense has been good, but he's just not a personality who elevates other guys on the team. Crawford has had 10x the leadership impact that Ariza has.

[Cap]

It's not even about him being a "go-to" guy, it's about his supposed impact as a vet. As you said, he's a complementary player so his impact is minimal without someone to get him easy/open shots. If we had drafted Fox as our PG (or had anyone competent at point), then I could see the value in Ariza as a veteran shooter and defender who's been battle tested and could hit big shots in winning time. But there's hardly any been any winning time this season.

And again, you draft two SFs the past two years and then say, "We need a veteran SF for 15mil"?

Just a useless signing for all those reasons and...

If Ariza could hit big shots come winning time, he would still be playing for the NBA champion Houston Rockets.

I actually think his individual defense has been good, but he's just not a personality who elevates other guys on the team. Crawford has had 10x the leadership impact that Ariza has.

Yup. Note to Sarver and Jones: just because a player has been around a while doesn’t mean he provides “veteran leadership.”

[Superbone]

Ayton gets another double-double.
Big deal.
At this rate, he's more Walt Bellamy than David Robinson ...

Bellamy trivia:

As a rookie, averaged 31 & 19 and led the league in FG%.

In 1968-69, played in 88 regular season games, still an NBA record.

How does that happen? Two different teams?

[Nodack]

I think Ayton, Booker, Warren and now Bridges are starting material.

Center-Ayton
Power Forward- ?
Small Forward - Warren, Bridges
Shooting Guard- Booker
Point Guard - ?

Holmes is listed as a Power Forward but is our backup Center. I like his aggression and tenacity. Anderson is a PF but isn’t isn’t the guy. Bender should be our PF but he is not getting better and at this piint is definitely NOT the guy. Holmes moving to our starting PF position along side Ayton would improve our defense IMO. Then of course we wouldn’t have a BU Center.

We are still missing a PG. Expecting wins with this team is asking a lot but, I think we have some nice pieces. If I were to pick the best starting five with what we have it would be

PG - Booker
SG - Bridges
SF - Warren
PF - Holmes
C - Ayton

I would like to see this group start a game. Unfortunately we would have to go to our bench at some point.

[Cap]

Ayton gets another double-double.
Big deal.
At this rate, he's more Walt Bellamy than David Robinson ...

Bellamy trivia:

As a rookie, averaged 31 & 19 and led the league in FG%.

In 1968-69, played in 88 regular season games, still an NBA record.

How does that happen? Two different teams?

Yup. 35 with New York and 53 with Detroit.

[LazarusLong]

Ayton gets another double-double.
Big deal.
At this rate, he's more Walt Bellamy than David Robinson ...

Bellamy trivia:

As a rookie, averaged 31 & 19 and led the league in FG%.

In 1968-69, played in 88 regular season games, still an NBA record.

Some context: Bellamy had a terrific rookie year for a team (Chicago Packers) that went 18-62.
Packers later moved to Baltimore and became the Bullets.

Bellamy was a solid offensive player who took lots of time off on defense.
He was with the Knicks for several years, teaming with Willis Reed.
Knicks traded Bellamy, shifted Reed to center, and won an NBA championship.

While Bellamy compiled impressive statistics during his career, most of the teams he played for had losing records.

[Mori Chu]

I think Ayton, Booker, Warren and now Bridges are starting material.

Center-Ayton
Power Forward- ?
Small Forward - Warren, Bridges
Shooting Guard- Booker
Point Guard - ?

Holmes is listed as a Power Forward but is our backup Center. I like his aggression and tenacity. Anderson is a PF but isn’t isn’t the guy. Bender should be our PF but he is not getting better and at this piint is definitely NOT the guy. Holmes moving to our starting PF position along side Ayton would improve our defense IMO. Then of course we wouldn’t have a BU Center.

We are still missing a PG. Expecting wins with this team is asking a lot but, I think we have some nice pieces. If I were to pick the best starting five with what we have it would be

PG - Booker
SG - Bridges
SF - Warren
PF - Holmes
C - Ayton

I would like to see this group start a game. Unfortunately we would have to go to our bench at some point.

I don't think I like Holmes at PF. He's too plodding and he doesn't have an outside shot. I would rather play Ariza or Warren or even Bender or Anderson at that spot, I think.

[Cap]

I think Ayton, Booker, Warren and now Bridges are starting material.

Center-Ayton
Power Forward- ?
Small Forward - Warren, Bridges
Shooting Guard- Booker
Point Guard - ?

Holmes is listed as a Power Forward but is our backup Center. I like his aggression and tenacity. Anderson is a PF but isn’t isn’t the guy. Bender should be our PF but he is not getting better and at this piint is definitely NOT the guy. Holmes moving to our starting PF position along side Ayton would improve our defense IMO. Then of course we wouldn’t have a BU Center.

We are still missing a PG. Expecting wins with this team is asking a lot but, I think we have some nice pieces. If I were to pick the best starting five with what we have it would be

PG - Booker
SG - Bridges
SF - Warren
PF - Holmes
C - Ayton

I would like to see this group start a game. Unfortunately we would have to go to our bench at some point.

I don't think I like Holmes at PF. He's too plodding and he doesn't have an outside shot. I would rather play Ariza or Warren or even Bender or Anderson at that spot, I think.

How about Holmes at C and Ayton at PF?

[Indy]

Warren and Booker are both so one dimensional. :/

I love the improvements Warren has made, but on a winning team, he needs to be a super sixth man.

He can back up Zion next year.

[Indy]

I think Ayton, Booker, Warren and now Bridges are starting material.

Center-Ayton
Power Forward- ?
Small Forward - Warren, Bridges
Shooting Guard- Booker
Point Guard - ?

Holmes is listed as a Power Forward but is our backup Center. I like his aggression and tenacity. Anderson is a PF but isn’t isn’t the guy. Bender should be our PF but he is not getting better and at this piint is definitely NOT the guy. Holmes moving to our starting PF position along side Ayton would improve our defense IMO. Then of course we wouldn’t have a BU Center.

We are still missing a PG. Expecting wins with this team is asking a lot but, I think we have some nice pieces. If I were to pick the best starting five with what we have it would be

PG - Booker
SG - Bridges
SF - Warren
PF - Holmes
C - Ayton

I would like to see this group start a game. Unfortunately we would have to go to our bench at some point.

I don't think I like Holmes at PF. He's too plodding and he doesn't have an outside shot. I would rather play Ariza or Warren or even Bender or Anderson at that spot, I think.

I am not advocating for Holmes at PF, but to call him plodding and then suggest Anderson might be better is mind blowing.

[Mori Chu]

I just don't believe in "twin towers" lineups. I'd rather have a shooter at the PF, even one who's struggled as mightily as Anderson has.