Impeachment

[Mori Chu]

Okay, let's talk about it. Should the Democrats in the House move forward with an impeachment process for President Trump? One could argue that they should wait for Mueller's conclusion and report. One could also argue that Trump has already done enough bad stuff that is known to the public to merit immediate impeachment proceedings.

The Atlantic had a piece arguing for beginning the process immediately. I found it interesting:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... mp/580468/

What do you think? I generally think they should wait for Mueller, though I guess that depends on the assumption that he will wrap things up somewhat quickly.

[Nodack]

The House would vote and pass impeachment proceediing fairly easily I think. Republicans own the Senate and they will have to vote in favor of impeachment too. I can’t see that happening unless Muellers evidence proves without a shadow of doubt that Trump is a russian puppet.

Do I want him impeached? Yes.
Do I think he is guilty of conspiring with Russia? Yes.

The articles and documentaries I have seen show that Trump has been in business with the Russian mafia/Putin since the 80’s laundering money through Trump Towers. They loaned him money for his golf courses. He obviously deeply respects Putin or Putin owns him somehow judging by his actions in protecting Putin. Trump refused to enact sanctions on Russia that a unanimous Congress voted to do. He takes Putins word over his own intelligence community in front of the world in Helsinki. Now he is trying to lift sanctions on his Russian friend/Oligarch and the GOP is going along with it. Trump makes Russian propaganda statements out of the blue like his condemnation of Montenegro, who is at odds with Russia.
Trump clearly has most of the Senate in his back pocket.

[Mori Chu]

Wow. This is a bombshell:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ja ... estigation

Donald Trump told Michael Cohen specifically to lie to Congress under oath in sworn testimony about his Trump Tower Moscow project. This is subornation of perjury and is a felony. It is an impeachable offense in itself. Huge story.

[Flagrant Fowl]

What’s the impeachment endgame?

Pence is likely just as guilty if only because he’s known about all of this and did nothing to stop it, but that’s not enough to move him out as well.

I guess the biggest positive is that an impeachment would eliminate Trump from re-election, which is certainly still possible despite him being neck deep in shit.

[Indy]

There is no way half of the GOP senators would support impeaching him. Even if he did shoot a guy on 5th Avenue.

[Cap]

Their rationalizations are predictable enough. Clinton didn’t get removed from office for perjury, so it would be “unfair” to remove Trump after subornation of perjury.

Just like they say it’s “hypocrtical” for people with walls around their homes not to support a border wall. A wall is a wall is a wall, and perjury is perjury is perjury.

[Indy]

I think the rationalizations are "actually, I have more power if he is in office than if he isn't." But I agree their arguments will be what you said. And that only changes if Trump's approval rating dips below 50% with republican voters. Right now it is still at 85% (which is mind blowing).

[In2ition]

Wow. This is a bombshell:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ja ... estigation

Donald Trump told Michael Cohen specifically to lie to Congress under oath in sworn testimony about his Trump Tower Moscow project. This is subornation of perjury and is a felony. It is an impeachable offense in itself. Huge story.

I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

1. Is Buzzfeed an actual reputable news source?
2. No documentary evidence for supposed directive is provided
3. BuzzFeed sources are all 100% anonymous
4. Michael Cohen is a serial liar
5. It is not illegal to do business in Russia
6. Moscow Trump Tower project never got off the ground
7. Jason Leopold, who reported story, is a "serial fabulist". Columbia Journalism Review: "caught making stuff up in a 2002 Salon article, self-admittedly 'getting it completely wrong' ... & had his own memoir cancelled because of concerns over accuracy."

[ShelC]

Also consider that remaining President may be one of Trump's best moves. If Rs won't impeach and he won't resign, there'd be a legal battle to indict a sitting President.

[Mori Chu]

I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

1. Is Buzzfeed an actual reputable news source?
2. No documentary evidence for supposed directive is provided
3. BuzzFeed sources are all 100% anonymous
4. Michael Cohen is a serial liar
5. It is not illegal to do business in Russia
6. Moscow Trump Tower project never got off the ground
7. Jason Leopold, who reported story, is a "serial fabulist". Columbia Journalism Review: "caught making stuff up in a 2002 Salon article, self-admittedly 'getting it completely wrong' ... & had his own memoir cancelled because of concerns over accuracy."

It's fine to wait and see. But I do want to point out that Michael Cohen is not the source for this article; it comes from two anonymous intel community sources who claim it is based on evidence such as emails, texts, and other data, not based on Michael Cohen's word. And while yes, it is not illegal to do business in Russia, it is illegal to lie to Congress about your business in sworn testimony, and it is illegal to order others to do so when you are President of the United States.

[Mori Chu]

I should also note that Kellyanne Conway, as well as another White House spokesman, steadfastly refused to deny these allegations today during on-camera interviews. They were asked in no uncertain terms, did the President order Michael Cohen to lie to Congress? And they would not say, "no."

[Cap]

I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

1. Is Buzzfeed an actual reputable news source?
2. No documentary evidence for supposed directive is provided
3. BuzzFeed sources are all 100% anonymous
4. Michael Cohen is a serial liar
5. It is not illegal to do business in Russia
6. Moscow Trump Tower project never got off the ground
7. Jason Leopold, who reported story, is a "serial fabulist". Columbia Journalism Review: "caught making stuff up in a 2002 Salon article, self-admittedly 'getting it completely wrong' ... & had his own memoir cancelled because of concerns over accuracy."

It's fine to wait and see. But I do want to point out that Michael Cohen is not the source for this article; it comes from two anonymous intel community sources who claim it is based on evidence such as emails, texts, and other data, not based on Michael Cohen's word. And while yes, it is not illegal to do business in Russia, it is illegal to lie to Congress about your business in sworn testimony, and it is illegal to order others to do so when you are President of the United States.

If the allegation is true, this isn't just any perjury. This is undermining a Congressional investigation into a potential threat to national security.

[Indy]

I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

1. Is Buzzfeed an actual reputable news source?
2. No documentary evidence for supposed directive is provided
3. BuzzFeed sources are all 100% anonymous
4. Michael Cohen is a serial liar
5. It is not illegal to do business in Russia
6. Moscow Trump Tower project never got off the ground
7. Jason Leopold, who reported story, is a "serial fabulist". Columbia Journalism Review: "caught making stuff up in a 2002 Salon article, self-admittedly 'getting it completely wrong' ... & had his own memoir cancelled because of concerns over accuracy."

It's fine to wait and see. But I do want to point out that Michael Cohen is not the source for this article; it comes from two anonymous intel community sources who claim it is based on evidence such as emails, texts, and other data, not based on Michael Cohen's word. And while yes, it is not illegal to do business in Russia, it is illegal to lie to Congress about your business in sworn testimony, and it is illegal to order others to do so when you are President of the United States.

I don't think it matters if you are POTUS or not.

Also, In2, if you are going to just repost people's tweets on here, use the twitter function so we know who is saying it.

[Nodack]

What if Trump has been laundering money for the Russian mafia/Putin since the 80’s. Is that legal? What if the Russian mafia/Putin did finance Trumps golf courses etc and Trump owes them? Is it ok for a US President to be comprimised in that way? If Trump was resisting sanctions, promoting Russian propaganda, ignoring US intelligence and taking Putins word on Russia because they have him over a barrel is that OK?

[Indy]

What if Trump has been laundering money for the Russian mafia/Putin since the 80’s. Is that legal? What if the Russian mafia/Putin did finance Trumps golf courses etc and Trump owes them? Is it ok for a US President to be comprimised in that way? If Trump was resisting sanctions, promoting Russian propaganda, ignoring US intelligence and taking Putins word on Russia because they have him over a barrel is that OK?

First, money laundering is illegal.

Second, if the rest were true, he couldn't fulfill the duties in his oath of office.

[In2ition]

I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

1. Is Buzzfeed an actual reputable news source?
2. No documentary evidence for supposed directive is provided
3. BuzzFeed sources are all 100% anonymous
4. Michael Cohen is a serial liar
5. It is not illegal to do business in Russia
6. Moscow Trump Tower project never got off the ground
7. Jason Leopold, who reported story, is a "serial fabulist". Columbia Journalism Review: "caught making stuff up in a 2002 Salon article, self-admittedly 'getting it completely wrong' ... & had his own memoir cancelled because of concerns over accuracy."

It's fine to wait and see. But I do want to point out that Michael Cohen is not the source for this article; it comes from two anonymous intel community sources who claim it is based on evidence such as emails, texts, and other data, not based on Michael Cohen's word. And while yes, it is not illegal to do business in Russia, it is illegal to lie to Congress about your business in sworn testimony, and it is illegal to order others to do so when you are President of the United States.

I don't think it matters if you are POTUS or not.

Also, In2, if you are going to just repost people's tweets on here, use the twitter function so we know who is saying it.

Noted

[In2ition]

https://twitter.com/guypbenson/status/1086112271418445826

[Indy]

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/1086419880025284608

[Indy]

That is a really interesting way of wording a refute of the story. Lots of qualifiers. And when is the last time you heard anyone from that team publicly comment on anything?

[Mori Chu]

Link to NYT story expressing doubt about some details of the Buzzfeed story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/us/p ... e=Homepage