Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

[specialsauce]

Also, Simmons looks pretty good tonight

He does but it is all put backs and gimmes down low. That’s not a max player IMO. We’ll just agree to disagree.

[Split T]

Also, Simmons looks pretty good tonight

He does but it is all put backs and gimmes down low. That’s not a max player IMO. We’ll just agree to disagree.

I mean, he’s created a lot of those gimmies for himself, but I’m cool just agreeing to disagree.

[Flagrant Fowl]

The problem with Simmons is, what can you do with him when he doesn't have the ball in his hands? If Booker is doing his Harden thing and both Ayton and Simmons are on the floor, at least one of them needs to stretch to the corner. It's basically the same problem Philly is having with Embiid and Simmons right now. They both occupy the same space on offense without the ball.

Use him as the screener...don’t iso booker with Simmons on the floor. You’d have to get a little creative with both Ayton and Simmons, but I think Ayton will definitely be able to stretch to the corner soon. You can also stagger the minutes so Simmons and Ayton don’t spend a lot of time together on the floor. If they both play 36 minutes, stagger them so they play 24 together and 24 apart.

You’re talking about having to stagger your best players because they don’t fit together. That doesn’t make any sense.

It makes plenty sense. You never have a minute on the court without one of your best players.

That's very impractical and a bad strategy in the playoffs when you must play your best players.

The bottom line for me is that he's not worth the headache if he's not willing to take and make a jumpshot. I honestly can't believe how anyone would really disagree with that.

[Split T]

The problem with Simmons is, what can you do with him when he doesn't have the ball in his hands? If Booker is doing his Harden thing and both Ayton and Simmons are on the floor, at least one of them needs to stretch to the corner. It's basically the same problem Philly is having with Embiid and Simmons right now. They both occupy the same space on offense without the ball.

Use him as the screener...don’t iso booker with Simmons on the floor. You’d have to get a little creative with both Ayton and Simmons, but I think Ayton will definitely be able to stretch to the corner soon. You can also stagger the minutes so Simmons and Ayton don’t spend a lot of time together on the floor. If they both play 36 minutes, stagger them so they play 24 together and 24 apart.

You’re talking about having to stagger your best players because they don’t fit together. That doesn’t make any sense.

It makes plenty sense. You never have a minute on the court without one of your best players.

That's very impractical and a bad strategy in the playoffs when you must play your best players.

The bottom line for me is that he's not worth the headache if he's not willing to take and make a jumpshot. I honestly can't believe how anyone would really disagree with that.

You can still easily play both of them...

Bottom line for me is he’s a 22 year old 16/8/8 guy who plays elite defense at 6’10 240, why would you not want that?

Plenty of guys couldn’t shoot at the beginning of their career(Kidd, Rondo)

Just think of him as a 6’10 rondo...he was the pg for a championship team.

[Flagrant Fowl]

You can still easily play both of them...

Bottom line for me is he’s a 22 year old 16/8/8 guy who plays elite defense at 6’10 240, why would you not want that?

Plenty of guys couldn’t shoot at the beginning of their career(Kidd, Rondo)

Just think of him as a 6’10 rondo...he was the pg for a championship team.

I'm not saying you can't play them together, just that it's a misuse of cap space and not ideal roster construction.

I'm all for it if he can hit reliably hit a shot out to 20 feet, but it's been three years and he still doesn't even attempt them. I'd like to see some progression before giving him the contract he'll likely demand.

That Rondo comparison is way out of context. He was playing with three veterans who were locks for the Hall of Fame before they even won that title. It would be like if we swapped out Draymond Green for Simmons and pointed to him winning on the Warriors as evidence of his ability to succeed.

[Superbone]

As for the Lakers situation, who could have known that an agent, Pelinka, as GM wouldn’t work? Oh, right. We knew. (I’m looking at you, Lon Babby.)

[Split T]

You can still easily play both of them...

Bottom line for me is he’s a 22 year old 16/8/8 guy who plays elite defense at 6’10 240, why would you not want that?

Plenty of guys couldn’t shoot at the beginning of their career(Kidd, Rondo)

Just think of him as a 6’10 rondo...he was the pg for a championship team.

I'm not saying you can't play them together, just that it's a misuse of cap space and not ideal roster construction.

I'm all for it if he can hit reliably hit a shot out to 20 feet, but it's been three years and he still doesn't even attempt them. I'd like to see some progression before giving him the contract he'll likely demand.

That Rondo comparison is way out of context. He was playing with three veterans who were locks for the Hall of Fame before they even won that title. It would be like if we swapped out Draymond Green for Simmons and pointed to him winning on the Warriors as evidence of his ability to succeed.

My point wasn’t necessarily the championship that rondo won, but that he was a very effective pg without a jumpshot. Simmons has had some troubles in the playoffs, but he’s also been very effective without a jump shot.

He can offer so many things, I think it would be a mistake to just pass on him because he can’t shoot. Especially when you’ve already got a young alpha scoring option. Simmons fills a lot of holes, including our 2 biggest at pg and pf

[specialsauce]

You can still easily play both of them...

Bottom line for me is he’s a 22 year old 16/8/8 guy who plays elite defense at 6’10 240, why would you not want that?

Plenty of guys couldn’t shoot at the beginning of their career(Kidd, Rondo)

Just think of him as a 6’10 rondo...he was the pg for a championship team.

I'm not saying you can't play them together, just that it's a misuse of cap space and not ideal roster construction.

I'm all for it if he can hit reliably hit a shot out to 20 feet, but it's been three years and he still doesn't even attempt them. I'd like to see some progression before giving him the contract he'll likely demand.

That Rondo comparison is way out of context. He was playing with three veterans who were locks for the Hall of Fame before they even won that title. It would be like if we swapped out Draymond Green for Simmons and pointed to him winning on the Warriors as evidence of his ability to succeed.

This ain’t NBA2K. You have a salary cap. No way in hell Im using my limited max dollars and giving up assets to obtain a player that will be exposed every year in the playoffs. Absolutely no way. That’s a disaster waiting to happen. If he doesn’t develop any semblance of a shot, that max deal will haunt an organization just like John Wall. Good enough to keep you stuck in mediocrity for a decade.

And you’re wrong Split. He is not a perfect fit for our weaknesses at PG and PF. More than anything we need players that can space the floor around Ayton and Booker. He’s literally the opposite of what we need.

[Split T]

Wow..a 23 year old signing for 25-30 million a year isn’t anywhere close to aging, torn Achilles, John wall at 40+ million a year.

Look, I’m fine if you don’t think Simmons is a great fit. His shot is a problem, but he’s already a very good player, and you’re way overstating how much his lack of a jumpshot hurts him.

And for the record, he’s on a rookie deal still. He’d cost about the same as Ja Morant would next year, then we could go over the cap to retain him...so it literally wouldn’t impact our cap space at all.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Wow..a 23 year old signing for 25-30 million a year isn’t anywhere close to aging, torn Achilles, John wall at 40+ million a year.

Look, I’m fine if you don’t think Simmons is a great fit. His shot is a problem, but he’s already a very good player, and you’re way overstating how much his lack of a jumpshot hurts him.

And for the record, he’s on a rookie deal still. He’d cost about the same as Ja Morant would next year, then we could go over the cap to retain him...so it literally wouldn’t impact our cap space at all.

You know that's not true. It absolutely affects the cap flexibility of the entire roster.

[specialsauce]

Wow..a 23 year old signing for 25-30 million a year isn’t anywhere close to aging, torn Achilles, John wall at 40+ million a year.

Look, I’m fine if you don’t think Simmons is a great fit. His shot is a problem, but he’s already a very good player, and you’re way overstating how much his lack of a jumpshot hurts him.

And for the record, he’s on a rookie deal still. He’d cost about the same as Ja Morant would next year, then we could go over the cap to retain him...so it literally wouldn’t impact our cap space at all.

You know that's not true. It absolutely affects the cap flexibility of the entire roster.

You’re drinking the Kool Aid bro if you don’t see how maxing out Ben Simmons would change our cap implications.

I’d max Kemba or trade for Aaron Gordon at his salary before I went after Simmons.

[Split T]

Simmons will make 8.1 million next year. The #2 pick will make 7.2 million...add okobo or Melton to the trade and you actually end up with slightly more cap space. Add Jackson and you’ve got 6 extra million in space.

Will signing Simmons to a max in 2020 impact our cap situation going forward from there? Of course, but we wouldn’t be limited in what we could offer him. It’s not super likely we’d have cap space anyways in 2020 after signing oubre.

As for Kemba...gross, you’d rather pay a 30 year old 6’0 pg 35 million a year than pay a 23 year old 6’10 pg 25 million a year? That’s just not smart.

As for Gordon, he’s on a great contract, so I’m fine if you’d prefer him. He’s young, fits a need, and comes cheap...money wise, not sure what it’d take to trade for him.

[Indy]

If you can get Simmons for people not named Ayton, Booker, and Bridges, you do it. He can play point forward. He is already bigger and a better rebounder than Philly's PF, and would be a huge upgrade for us at that spot. You then sign a veteran 3-D guy at point. It would require Ayton to become an outside shooter, though. Or at least a threat in the 33-35% range.

[Indy]

Oh, and it would mean we don't re-sign Kelly (unless we find a way to use it as part of a sign/trade to get Simmons).

[O_Gardino]

As for the Lakers situation, who could have known that an agent, Pelinka, as GM wouldn’t work? Oh, right. We knew. (I’m looking at you, Lon Babby.)

Warriors GM, Bob Myers was an agent.

[Indy]

As for the Lakers situation, who could have known that an agent, Pelinka, as GM wouldn’t work? Oh, right. We knew. (I’m looking at you, Lon Babby.)

Warriors GM, Bob Myers was an agent.

Yeah, I actually think it could be a good training for a GM.

[Mori Chu]

If you can get Simmons for people not named Ayton, Booker, and Bridges, you do it. He can play point forward. He is already bigger and a better rebounder than Philly's PF, and would be a huge upgrade for us at that spot. You then sign a veteran 3-D guy at point. It would require Ayton to become an outside shooter, though. Or at least a threat in the 33-35% range.

I'd give up Bridges. The only guys or assets I wouldn't put in such a deal would be Booker, Ayton, or if we get the #1 pick this year (Zion).

[Split T]

Oh, and it would mean we don't re-sign Kelly (unless we find a way to use it as part of a sign/trade to get Simmons).

You can still sign him. Simmons is still in his rookie deal, so will actually be cheap until next summer.

[Mori Chu]

This does actually bring up an interesting discussion. It's always felt weird to me that a team can hire a coach who is still working for another team in the playoffs. It just seems like it has to distract their focus, and could even present a conflict of interest.

I agree. That's why you are not allowed to talk to a coach unless the team explicitly consents. If Philly had said no, we would not have spoken to him.

[Split T]

Would you guys move Warren for Reggie Jackson?

I’ve never been a huge Jackson fan, but his 3pt shot has improved, he was at 37% last year on a career high number of attempts. His turnovers are pretty low, though Detroit taking the ball out of his hands more, probably has something to do with that. So it’d be nice to have a point forward. *cough* Simmons *cough*

He’d expire after next season, so he’d be low risk if he doesn’t work out.

My new plan assuming we don’t land 1:

1. Trade our pick, Josh Jackson, and Okobo to Philly for Simmons.
2. Renounce everyone but Oubre.
3. Trade Warren for Reggie Jackson
4. Sign Dewayne Dedmon and Seth Curry

Curry/Booker/Bridges/Simmons/Ayton
Jackson/Johnson/Oubre/Dedmon

You’d have 1 elite shooter(Curry)
Another near elite shooter(Booker)
3 good shooters(Jackson, Bridges, Dedmon)
2 average shooters(Oubre, Johnson)
And 1 developing shooter(Ayton)

No bad shooters around Simmons.