Around the League: The Off-season

[Indy]

But they only took back 13 million in total salary. Crowder at 7.8 and Kyle is only partially guaranteed at 3.4. Allen is 2.5. If they really wanted relief, I don't know if paying an extra 8 million to have Tyler's contract would be worth it. And even if they declined Josh, they have to pay him and Tyler 27 million this year.

[In2ition]

Utah gave up a decent amount. They would have wanted warren, Tyler and two firsts. Too much for a veteran presence that would be gone when we’re ready to contend.

They gave up garbage. Salary ballast, the 21st pick in last years draft, the 23rd pick in this bad draft and a protected future first.

I wouldn't have had a problem giving up Warren/Jackson, Tyler, Okobo/Melton, the Milwaukee pick and the same protections on future picks. How is that not a better offer?

And there's no reason Conley couldn't play for us for 5 more seasons. He still playing at an incredibly high level. Once his mega-contract is done, you resign him to a more reasonable one.

The more I sit with this the more upset I am that we didn't find a way to get him. I would give up 2 picks for him if they were as protected as what Utah sent. But I also don't think we had anywhere near the savings they got. I keep looking at our contracts and if they wanted to clear every last bit of Conley's salary by the end of this coming season, and clear as much cap space as possible, what could we have offered?

The sixth pick.

We can’t offer salary relief as much, but we could certainly get close and have given a better pick.

The sixth pick is well worth Mike Conley for 3-4 years.

If we offered Tyler (expiring), Jackson (they decline his option) and Melton, they would have no salary beyond next season. Add the Milwaukee pick and next year's protected first and Memphis clears $34M for '20-21, gains 2 draft picks and gets a look at 2 young players that both fit the Grit-n-Grind model. Memphis could probably also re-route Jackson to a 3rd team for draft considerations if the space was more important to them.

Idk if space is all that important to them. They have never been a FA destination and are operating that way even going forward.

[Indy]

And of course the 6th pick is worth 2 year of Conley.

I wouldn’t trade for Conley with intentions of him only being around for 2 years. I agree with above his game translates well to playing into his mid 30s.

But he only has 2 years on his contract. You could certainly re-sign him, but it isn't like he would be an UFA at the end of those two years. He could go anywhere. And if he is signing a final contract in two years, he probably wants to be competing for a ring.

[O_Gardino]

As others have said, I think they were looking to move Conley to a good team.

[Shabazz]

As others have said, I think they were looking to move Conley to a good team.

Conley would make us a good team.

[Indy]

As others have said, I think they were looking to move Conley to a good team.

Conley would make us a good team.

?? Is Conley the difference between 19 wins and 55? (Serious question--as I am not sure how much better this team would be because we have been beat down so much the last 5 years)

[Shabazz]

As others have said, I think they were looking to move Conley to a good team.

Conley would make us a good team.

?? Is Conley the difference between 19 wins and 55? (Serious question--as I am not sure how much better this team would be because we have been beat down so much the last 5 years)

No - but I don't think we were as bad as our 19 wins indicated (let's say 25 wins with a fully healthy roster). I could see him taking us from 25 to 34. We'd also still have the 6th pick and other pieces to make moves.

[Split T]

Conley would have helped us win 38games and give up the 13th pick to Memphis next year. I like Conley, I think he’s fantastic for Utah or for any contender. We wouldn’t have made the playoffs with him and by the time we were ready for the playoffs he’d be 34 and who knows how good or healthy. He’d have been a big risk.

I get that we just want to be a competent team again, but we can accomplish that by signing Collison, a decent PF and letting the young guys grow. We’d keep #6 and maintain flexibility going forward. I like this route much better.

[specialsauce]

And of course the 6th pick is worth 2 year of Conley.

I wouldn’t trade for Conley with intentions of him only being around for 2 years. I agree with above his game translates well to playing into his mid 30s.

But he only has 2 years on his contract. You could certainly re-sign him, but it isn't like he would be an UFA at the end of those two years. He could go anywhere. And if he is signing a final contract in two years, he probably wants to be competing for a ring.

That’s a defeatist attitude which is par for this board who is only comfortable trading for a player that has 20 years of control for fear of them walking because we’ll still suck. If we can’t be a legitimate playoff team in 2 years with Ayton, Booker, Oubre, Bridges, Conley and a PF, we never will. And if we continue to walk around with a scared attitude, we’ll be so paralyzed by fear we’ll never improve.

[Split T]

We shouldn’t be worried about whether he’d resign, we should be worried about whether he’d be good enough that we’d want to resign him.

[Indy]

And of course the 6th pick is worth 2 year of Conley.

I wouldn’t trade for Conley with intentions of him only being around for 2 years. I agree with above his game translates well to playing into his mid 30s.

But he only has 2 years on his contract. You could certainly re-sign him, but it isn't like he would be an UFA at the end of those two years. He could go anywhere. And if he is signing a final contract in two years, he probably wants to be competing for a ring.

That’s a defeatist attitude which is par for this board who is only comfortable trading for a player that has 20 years of control for fear of them walking because we’ll still suck. If we can’t be a legitimate playoff team in 2 years with Ayton, Booker, Oubre, Bridges, Conley and a PF, we never will. And if we continue to walk around with a scared attitude, we’ll be so paralyzed by fear we’ll never improve.

1) You said the trade is worth 4-5 years of him--just pointing out his contract is 2 years.
2) I am all for getting him as long as it didn't cost us Book/Ayton/Bridges (even multiple picks)
3) It is silly to suggest we will be competing for a ring in 2 years... it isn't defeatist. You have to be good before you are great.

[Indy]

As others have said, I think they were looking to move Conley to a good team.

Conley would make us a good team.

?? Is Conley the difference between 19 wins and 55? (Serious question--as I am not sure how much better this team would be because we have been beat down so much the last 5 years)

No - but I don't think we were as bad as our 19 wins indicated (let's say 25 wins with a fully healthy roster). I could see him taking us from 25 to 34. We'd also still have the 6th pick and other pieces to make moves.

That is fair. I guess we would have been close to a 30 win team last year if we had Tyler to start the season and TJ didn't get injured. I think he could be a 7-10 game upgrade over Tyler, too.

[specialsauce]

We shouldn’t be worried about whether he’d resign, we should be worried about whether he’d be good enough that we’d want to resign him.

His game will age well. I think he could play into his mid-late 30s. He’ll be 33 when his contract is done, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he’ll play well to 35-36

[specialsauce]

And of course the 6th pick is worth 2 year of Conley.

I wouldn’t trade for Conley with intentions of him only being around for 2 years. I agree with above his game translates well to playing into his mid 30s.

But he only has 2 years on his contract. You could certainly re-sign him, but it isn't like he would be an UFA at the end of those two years. He could go anywhere. And if he is signing a final contract in two years, he probably wants to be competing for a ring.

That’s a defeatist attitude which is par for this board who is only comfortable trading for a player that has 20 years of control for fear of them walking because we’ll still suck. If we can’t be a legitimate playoff team in 2 years with Ayton, Booker, Oubre, Bridges, Conley and a PF, we never will. And if we continue to walk around with a scared attitude, we’ll be so paralyzed by fear we’ll never improve.

1) You said the trade is worth 4-5 years of him--just pointing out his contract is 2 years.
2) I am all for getting him as long as it didn't cost us Book/Ayton/Bridges (even multiple picks)
3) It is silly to suggest we will be competing for a ring in 2 years... it isn't defeatist. You have to be good before you are great.

Maybe not a ring yet but I can easily see that core as a 4-5 seed able to advance in the playoffs

[In2ition]

Conley would have been a huge upgrade for what the Suns have had. I think the Suns would push 40 wins.

What are the Suns going to do about the PF position? I don't think there is a single one on the roster right now. This also needs to be addressed. Someone needs to have Ayton's back when he's on the floor. Someone else needs to be able to rebound, no?

[Indy]

I wouldn’t trade for Conley with intentions of him only being around for 2 years. I agree with above his game translates well to playing into his mid 30s.

But he only has 2 years on his contract. You could certainly re-sign him, but it isn't like he would be an UFA at the end of those two years. He could go anywhere. And if he is signing a final contract in two years, he probably wants to be competing for a ring.

That’s a defeatist attitude which is par for this board who is only comfortable trading for a player that has 20 years of control for fear of them walking because we’ll still suck. If we can’t be a legitimate playoff team in 2 years with Ayton, Booker, Oubre, Bridges, Conley and a PF, we never will. And if we continue to walk around with a scared attitude, we’ll be so paralyzed by fear we’ll never improve.

1) You said the trade is worth 4-5 years of him--just pointing out his contract is 2 years.
2) I am all for getting him as long as it didn't cost us Book/Ayton/Bridges (even multiple picks)
3) It is silly to suggest we will be competing for a ring in 2 years... it isn't defeatist. You have to be good before you are great.

Maybe not a ring yet but I can easily see that core as a 4-5 seed able to advance in the playoffs

I agree we could get there in two years with the right moves/picks panning out. My point is that if I were him, and I knew I only had a couple years left, you start thinking about legacy and career after basketball. Look what Horford just did and they were expected to play for a ring this year.

[Indy]

Conley would have been a huge upgrade for what the Suns have had. I think the Suns would push 40 wins.

What are the Suns going to do about the PF position? I don't think there is a single one on the roster right now. This also needs to be addressed. Someone needs to have Ayton's back when he's on the floor. Someone else needs to be able to rebound, no?

Don't we still have Spalding?

[specialsauce]

But he only has 2 years on his contract. You could certainly re-sign him, but it isn't like he would be an UFA at the end of those two years. He could go anywhere. And if he is signing a final contract in two years, he probably wants to be competing for a ring.

That’s a defeatist attitude which is par for this board who is only comfortable trading for a player that has 20 years of control for fear of them walking because we’ll still suck. If we can’t be a legitimate playoff team in 2 years with Ayton, Booker, Oubre, Bridges, Conley and a PF, we never will. And if we continue to walk around with a scared attitude, we’ll be so paralyzed by fear we’ll never improve.

1) You said the trade is worth 4-5 years of him--just pointing out his contract is 2 years.
2) I am all for getting him as long as it didn't cost us Book/Ayton/Bridges (even multiple picks)
3) It is silly to suggest we will be competing for a ring in 2 years... it isn't defeatist. You have to be good before you are great.

Maybe not a ring yet but I can easily see that core as a 4-5 seed able to advance in the playoffs

I agree we could get there in two years with the right moves/picks panning out. My point is that if I were him, and I knew I only had a couple years left, you start thinking about legacy and career after basketball. Look what Horford just did and they were expected to play for a ring this year.

If we are a 5th seed his second year and advance to the second round in the playoffs, it's not out of the imagination to think with another year of development and offseason tinkering we could be competing for a championship.

[Split T]

We shouldn’t be worried about whether he’d resign, we should be worried about whether he’d be good enough that we’d want to resign him.

His game will age well. I think he could play into his mid-late 30s. He’ll be 33 when his contract is done, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he’ll play well to 35-36

You’re right, but he could also get hurt this season and fade away. He’s already had multiple foot/heel/Achilles injuries

[specialsauce]

We shouldn’t be worried about whether he’d resign, we should be worried about whether he’d be good enough that we’d want to resign him.

His game will age well. I think he could play into his mid-late 30s. He’ll be 33 when his contract is done, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he’ll play well to 35-36

You’re right, but he could also get hurt this season and fade away. He’s already had multiple foot/heel/Achilles injuries

Sure. So could any player. So we'd be smartest not signing anyone at all because they're rather young and bad, or old and injury prone.