Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

[LazarusLong]

It's fashionable to beat on the Suns like a piñata.
It's groupthink at its worst.
Who would say otherwise?

[O_Gardino]

Maybe they meant it was a bad move for Rubio.

[The Bobster]

The only offseason change that I can seriously question is letting Holmes go. It would have been nice if they had figured out a way to fit him in, but maybe they weren't too pleased with his arrest in the offseason.

CAREER VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) -

HOLDOVERS
Johnson 3.9
Booker 2.0
Ayton 1.2
Bridges 1.1
Oubre -0.4
Okobo -0.9

ADDITIONS
Rubio 12.3
Saric 2.3
Kaminsky 1.3
Baynes 1.2
Diallo -0.2
Carter -0.3

SUBTRACTIONS
Crawford 8.9
Holmes 3.0
Warren 1.3
Melton -0.1
Bender -1.0
Daniels -1.3
Jackson -2.5

All the subtractions other than Holmes were expendable - Crawford hasn't had any real value in five years, Jackson was pretty dreadful, Daniels isn't particularly good and Warren was unreliable and playing out of position. Bender and Melton might have some defensive value, but their lack of offense cancels that out.

[ShelC]

[O_Gardino]

Good luck, Dragan.

[O_Gardino]

Gross reality: Dragan Bender has a better chance at playoff minutes than Devin Booker.

[Wormwood]

Survey of 20 coaches, executives, and scouts, rates Suns acquisition as tied for the worst move of the summer.

"Phoenix, meanwhile, was both docked for the three-year, $51 million contract it handed to Rubio, but also for the price it paid -- De'Anthony Melton and two second-round picks -- to dump Josh Jackson's contract to clear the space to sign him in the first place.

"They paid him a lot of money, and he isn't very good," an Eastern Conference scout said. "Maybe it was the best they could do to finally get a point guard, but you're designed for less than mediocrity.""

I can't really argue. Rubio is below somewhat average for a starting PG. He may be a terrible fit if he can't start hitting threes. And our roster is set up to be mediocre at best.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/272 ... te-chatter

[Indy]

Survey of 20 coaches, executives, and scouts, rates Suns acquisition as tied for the worst move of the summer.

"Phoenix, meanwhile, was both docked for the three-year, $51 million contract it handed to Rubio, but also for the price it paid -- De'Anthony Melton and two second-round picks -- to dump Josh Jackson's contract to clear the space to sign him in the first place.

"They paid him a lot of money, and he isn't very good," an Eastern Conference scout said. "Maybe it was the best they could do to finally get a point guard, but you're designed for less than mediocrity.""

I can't really argue. Rubio is below somewhat average for a starting PG. He may be a terrible fit if he can't start hitting threes. And our roster is set up to be mediocre at best.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/272 ... te-chatter

There were 29 guards that played over 1500 minutes last year and got >=4.5 assists a game. Rubio was 25th in win shares (on a 50 win team). For comparison, Booker was only one place behind Rubio on a 19 win team.

[In2ition]

Survey of 20 coaches, executives, and scouts, rates Suns acquisition as tied for the worst move of the summer.

"Phoenix, meanwhile, was both docked for the three-year, $51 million contract it handed to Rubio, but also for the price it paid -- De'Anthony Melton and two second-round picks -- to dump Josh Jackson's contract to clear the space to sign him in the first place.

"They paid him a lot of money, and he isn't very good," an Eastern Conference scout said. "Maybe it was the best they could do to finally get a point guard, but you're designed for less than mediocrity.""

I can't really argue. Rubio is below somewhat average for a starting PG. He may be a terrible fit if he can't start hitting threes. And our roster is set up to be mediocre at best.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/272 ... te-chatter

I think the key word in there is "starting". The PGs the Suns had last year for most of the year weren't "starting" caliber on a GLeague team.

[specialsauce]

Survey of 20 coaches, executives, and scouts, rates Suns acquisition as tied for the worst move of the summer.

"Phoenix, meanwhile, was both docked for the three-year, $51 million contract it handed to Rubio, but also for the price it paid -- De'Anthony Melton and two second-round picks -- to dump Josh Jackson's contract to clear the space to sign him in the first place.

"They paid him a lot of money, and he isn't very good," an Eastern Conference scout said. "Maybe it was the best they could do to finally get a point guard, but you're designed for less than mediocrity.""

I can't really argue. Rubio is below somewhat average for a starting PG. He may be a terrible fit if he can't start hitting threes. And our roster is set up to be mediocre at best.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/272 ... te-chatter

I think the key word in there is "starting". The PGs the Suns had last year for most of the year weren't "starting" caliber on a GLeague team.

That’s our new standard? That satisfies you? How low we’ve fallen.

[specialsauce]

Second year is nonguaranteed

[specialsauce]

The only offseason change that I can seriously question is letting Holmes go. It would have been nice if they had figured out a way to fit him in, but maybe they weren't too pleased with his arrest in the offseason.

CAREER VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) -

HOLDOVERS
Johnson 3.9
Booker 2.0
Ayton 1.2
Bridges 1.1
Oubre -0.4
Okobo -0.9

ADDITIONS
Rubio 12.3
Saric 2.3
Kaminsky 1.3
Baynes 1.2
Diallo -0.2
Carter -0.3

SUBTRACTIONS
Crawford 8.9
Holmes 3.0
Warren 1.3
Melton -0.1
Bender -1.0
Daniels -1.3
Jackson -2.5

All the subtractions other than Holmes were expendable - Crawford hasn't had any real value in five years, Jackson was pretty dreadful, Daniels isn't particularly good and Warren was unreliable and playing out of position. Bender and Melton might have some defensive value, but their lack of offense cancels that out.

There’s no doubt that we improved in talent this offseason with the turnover. That’s not that impressive. Just about anybody we signed to replace those we let go would have been an improvement. I expected a more impactful signing. I don’t see any of the players we just acquired being on the next great Suns team. I do like the Saric signing.

[specialsauce]

I don't know how one could look at our roster and record last year, see us add Rubio and conclude that was the worst move of the summer.

It’s a slight overpay, but how anyone can think it’s worse than 3/58 for Rozier is crazy

Probably because Rubio is what he is. He has been a starter for a long time, and isn't likely to be better than what people saw last year. Rozier is several years younger, less mileage, and hasn't been a starter yet. There is room for upside (even if I don't think he will get there).

As much as we hate it, I am assuming if 6/20 coaches/GMs/scouts independently came to the conclusion that Rubio's contract/fit on this team was the worst move of the off-season, there is some fire under the smoke. Let's just hope it is the fire before the phoenix rises.

Well, it's not like the Suns are married to Rubio. He's signed for 3 years, he's not close to as bad of a contract that many other's were signed to. He is most likely a bridge PG and they have a good PG rotation this year. At least it's competent.

Yeah. I have not said it was a bad move. I have said it was meh. I am just surprised to see people that get paid to make these decision indicate it was one of the worst moves. Hindsight is always 20/20, so time will tell.

Yes agree. Rubio is very “meh.” Like really, that’s the secret plan after two years of sucking with no PG? That’s what we’ve waited all this time to get?

But hardly the worst deal

[ShelC]

If we would've made a splash with DLo, regardless of salary/fit/defense/style/etc, we would've been the offseason darlings and projected to go to the playoffs. But we had a vanilla offseason and it's like people are mad about it.

[In2ition]

Survey of 20 coaches, executives, and scouts, rates Suns acquisition as tied for the worst move of the summer.

"Phoenix, meanwhile, was both docked for the three-year, $51 million contract it handed to Rubio, but also for the price it paid -- De'Anthony Melton and two second-round picks -- to dump Josh Jackson's contract to clear the space to sign him in the first place.

"They paid him a lot of money, and he isn't very good," an Eastern Conference scout said. "Maybe it was the best they could do to finally get a point guard, but you're designed for less than mediocrity.""

I can't really argue. Rubio is below somewhat average for a starting PG. He may be a terrible fit if he can't start hitting threes. And our roster is set up to be mediocre at best.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/272 ... te-chatter

I think the key word in there is "starting". The PGs the Suns had last year for most of the year weren't "starting" caliber on a GLeague team.

That’s our new standard? That satisfies you? How low we’ve fallen.

I thought the standard of having the worst PG rotation in the history of the NBA was a standard that would have said how far they've fallen. I guess I was wrong.

[ShelC]

[The Bobster]

Two problems with expecting a big free agent signing this summer - 1. The Suns frittered away cap space by signing Booker to his extension a year early and 2. The Suns are not a destination team for any of the big name free agents. Once they start winning some games that will change, but until then they'll have to become respectable through the draft, trades and smaller free agent signings.

[ShelC]

I think ownership plays a part now as well. Guys are much more in tune as to who's a good owner and who isn't. Sarver's a clown and I doubt that's changing anytime soon.

[specialsauce]

I would’ve rather had Brogdon or DLo.

Or take them out and just go with someone who’s cap mark is inconsequential like Tyus Jones, Sato, etc.

Instead we did neither. We ate up significant space without making a significant signing

[The Bobster]

I think ownership plays a part now as well. Guys are much more in tune as to who's a good owner and who isn't. Sarver's a clown and I doubt that's changing anytime soon.

Players have always been aware of ownership - we were just on the good end of it with Colangelo while other teams like the Clippers and Kings hemorrhaging talent.

Winning more games is a start, and out best possibility of drawing more talent. Unfortunately, it's easier to change the roster or coach than it is the owner.