Predict 2019-20 Suns # of wins

[In2ition]

I'm curious why being pessimistic about the prospects of a team is being realistic? When did pessimism become synonymous with realism?
Maybe it always has been. It's weird that we can call the prognosticators realists if they say the '04-'05 Suns winning only 35 games tops and are outlandish dreamers smoking something if they come with an optimistic view of 50 wins.

At the end of the season, if we win about 30 games, are you going to say that "the season was a complete disaster because a lot of things went very wrong," and call yourself an optimist?

If they won 30 games last year, they still would have trailed the 14th team by 3 games. Winning only 30 games will be a complete disaster, imo. A lot a things would have to go very wrong if that happened.

I hate to be a dick about it, but I hate it even more when people start throwing around the optimist and pessimist labels to dismiss each other's point of view.

I'm not trying to be a dick about any of these things. I've seen a number of posts that call someone saying they will be better than 35 posts as being ridiculous and/or they mention that they are being realistic by predicting 30 wins.

I still don't think that winning only 30 games is going to be good for this particular team. They should win much more than that, unless something catastrophic happens to them. That's why I would say that it would be a complete disaster and a lot of things went very wrong. I'm an optimist in that I think things will be much better than what the national or even consensus says they will. BTW, I like how you changed my name in the quote. That was cute.

[In2ition]

I'm curious why being pessimistic about the prospects of a team is being realistic? When did pessimism become synonymous with realism?
Maybe it always has been. It's weird that we can call the prognosticators realists if they say the '04-'05 Suns winning only 35 games tops and are outlandish dreamers smoking something if they come with an optimistic view of 50 wins.

The Suns average # Wins from 1968-2010: 45.5 (Including the lockout year)--Win %=.56%
The Suns average # Wins from 2010-2019: 30.2--Win %=.38% (constitutes 738 games)

I understand that and those %s. I've been a Suns fan for a long time, but that has nothing to do with my post, which pertains to general feelings, not specifically.

I apologize for being flippant--there have been several offseasons where I have optimistically believed the team was better than the previous year, but then the season shows that my optimistic view of the team wasn't accurate. I think fans support their team as best they can, but also try to temper their own expectations, so November and December is not filled with disappointment.

No worries, I actually didn't think you were being flippant. I was just clarifying my post in general. I understand that there is a mountain of evidence and history that says it will be completely out of the norm that they will win more than or up to 30-35 games this year.

[Indy]

I'm curious why being pessimistic about the prospects of a team is being realistic? When did pessimism become synonymous with realism?
Maybe it always has been. It's weird that we can call the prognosticators realists if they say the '04-'05 Suns winning only 35 games tops and are outlandish dreamers smoking something if they come with an optimistic view of 50 wins.

The Suns average # Wins from 1968-2010: 45.5 (Including the lockout year)--Win %=.56%
The Suns average # Wins from 2010-2019: 30.2--Win %=.38% (constitutes 738 games)

I understand that and those %s. I've been a Suns fan for a long time, but that has nothing to do with my post, which pertains to general feelings, not specifically.

I apologize for being flippant--there have been several offseasons where I have optimistically believed the team was better than the previous year, but then the season shows that my optimistic view of the team wasn't accurate. I think fans support their team as best they can, but also try to temper their own expectations, so November and December is not filled with disappointment.

No worries, I actually didn't think you were being flippant. I was just clarifying my post in general. I understand that there is a mountain of evidence and history that says it will be completely out of the norm that they will win more than or up to 30-35 games this year.

Which is the definition of being a realist!

Optimist: Everything that can go right will go right and they will perform better than anyone expects and better than their recent history predicts

Pessimist: Everything that can go wrong will and team will lose a lot more than consensus expects.

Realist: Will be an average year of good and bad breaks, and team will perform about as expected based on the improvements in their roster.


I really didn't think it was that complicated, but it seems some people hear those terms and equate being anything less than an optimist as being less of a fan because you don't always expect them to be better than everyone else in the world expects them to be.

[In2ition]

I really want to give you the INF rolling eyes emoji, haha.

[Shabazz]

As soon as I’m about to have a moment of optimism I remember that the front office’s Plan A this summer was throwing a truckload of money and Terry Rozier. Oh, and that Robert Sarver is still the owner. Oh, and that despite our improvements the west is freaking loaded.

[Shabazz]

Oh, and we don’t really have any reason to be optimistic about our defense, which is, you know, like an important part of the game.

[Superbone]

Oh, and we don’t really have any reason to be optimistic about our defense, which is, you know, like an important part of the game.

True. There's something we can look at and not be surprised in hindsight.

[Nodack]

I am always optimistic. It makes me a happier person. Expecting the worst all the time is just depressing. If things go bad, I still get paid the same.

[Split T]

Oh, and we don’t really have any reason to be optimistic about our defense, which is, you know, like an important part of the game.

I don’t think we got worse defensively, but barring a huge leap from Ayton, we won’t be good.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I am always optimistic. It makes me a happier person. Expecting the worst all the time is just depressing. If things go bad, I still get paid the same.

About my fandom and hobbies, I’m totally an optimist too. Real life is hard enough, to also translate it to the things that are supposed to bring joy to it. As you said, it’s depressing to never have hope on something going right, not even before it unfolds.

[Split T]

Good article and a relevant quote from Oubre on the topic

[Superbone]

I am always optimistic. It makes me a happier person. Expecting the worst all the time is just depressing. If things go bad, I still get paid the same.

About my fandom and hobbies, I’m totally an optimist too. Real life is hard enough, to also translate it to the things that are supposed to bring joy to it. As you said, it’s depressing to never have hope on something going right, not even before it unfolds.

Preach it, brothers!

[Flagrant Fowl]

Good article and a relevant quote from Oubre on the topic

This is exactly why I'm expecting right around 30 wins.

Anyone can talk about being "slept on" until they're blue in the face, but I need to see it on the court before I believe it can happen.

That's also not including random instances of luck, such as injuries and officiating.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I am always optimistic. It makes me a happier person. Expecting the worst all the time is just depressing. If things go bad, I still get paid the same.

About my fandom and hobbies, I’m totally an optimist too. Real life is hard enough, to also translate it to the things that are supposed to bring joy to it. As you said, it’s depressing to never have hope on something going right, not even before it unfolds.

Preach it, brothers!

If I wanted to have hope, I wouldn't be a Suns fan.

[pickle]

I really think we are all optimists at heart, for suffering at the hands of Sarver for all these years, predicting the worst outcome at the start of the year only to have even worse things happen in season, and still come back year after year after year. I've seen multiple "if such and such happens that's it for me as a Suns fan" posts in this group, and I've said the same at least three or four times over the last few years, yet we are still here. So, yeah, we are all optimists.

Having said that, I still don't see this team winning more than 30-35 games. What I expect as tangible progress this year is that there's a real identity to the team. I want everyone to know their roles, I want the players to all respect the coach, I want the coach to feel respected (by the front office and owner) and have some sense of job security, I want tangible efforts made to the player development aspect of team management, and I want the team to end the year on a positive note, to target at least .500 in 2020-21, and for the front office to actually have a plan for the off season next year.

In terms of an identity, I have to say, I had three favorite players on the team last year: Holmes, Oubre, and Melton, for their tenacity on defense, their fiery attitude (not so much Melton), and for always giving their best out on the court. I'm disappointed that two of them are gone. I'd rather have kept Holmes than pick up Kaminsky, but it is what it is. I'd rather to have kept Melton and moved Josh some other way, but it's not like complaining will reverse that move. I'm happy to see Baynes' performance in the FIBA WC and hope he brings more toughness and grit to the team. I am less high on Rubio but think that his presence will be more positive on the Suns than elsewhere and am optimistic that most pundits are getting it wrong.

Most of all I just hope to see more life instilled into this team. I'm sick of watching guys go through the motions on the court.

[Cap]

I really think we are all optimists at heart

According to the poll, we unanimously expect the team to beat the over/under. Some of us expect to come close to doubling it.

[Indy]

I really think we are all optimists at heart

According to the poll, we unanimously expect the team to beat the over/under. Some of us expect to come close to doubling it.

exactly.

[Indy]

I really think we are all optimists at heart, for suffering at the hands of Sarver for all these years, predicting the worst outcome at the start of the year only to have even worse things happen in season, and still come back year after year after year. I've seen multiple "if such and such happens that's it for me as a Suns fan" posts in this group, and I've said the same at least three or four times over the last few years, yet we are still here. So, yeah, we are all optimists.

Having said that, I still don't see this team winning more than 30-35 games. What I expect as tangible progress this year is that there's a real identity to the team. I want everyone to know their roles, I want the players to all respect the coach, I want the coach to feel respected (by the front office and owner) and have some sense of job security, I want tangible efforts made to the player development aspect of team management, and I want the team to end the year on a positive note, to target at least .500 in 2020-21, and for the front office to actually have a plan for the off season next year.

In terms of an identity, I have to say, I had three favorite players on the team last year: Holmes, Oubre, and Melton, for their tenacity on defense, their fiery attitude (not so much Melton), and for always giving their best out on the court. I'm disappointed that two of them are gone. I'd rather have kept Holmes than pick up Kaminsky, but it is what it is. I'd rather to have kept Melton and moved Josh some other way, but it's not like complaining will reverse that move. I'm happy to see Baynes' performance in the FIBA WC and hope he brings more toughness and grit to the team. I am less high on Rubio but think that his presence will be more positive on the Suns than elsewhere and am optimistic that most pundits are getting it wrong.

Most of all I just hope to see more life instilled into this team. I'm sick of watching guys go through the motions on the court.

perfect post pickle

[Indy]

I am always optimistic. It makes me a happier person. Expecting the worst all the time is just depressing. If things go bad, I still get paid the same.

About my fandom and hobbies, I’m totally an optimist too. Real life is hard enough, to also translate it to the things that are supposed to bring joy to it. As you said, it’s depressing to never have hope on something going right, not even before it unfolds.

Preach it, brothers!

Being optimistic about the Suns is saying you are hoping/expecting something good to happen that likely won't. How does that make you a happier person? It seems it would be disappointing to have your high hopes get crushed every year. Is it the 1 out of 10 years where we over achieve that keeps you going the next 9 years like potato farmers? (this is a serious questions from me, not trying to be a dick (but it does come easy) )

[Superbone]

I am always optimistic. It makes me a happier person. Expecting the worst all the time is just depressing. If things go bad, I still get paid the same.

About my fandom and hobbies, I’m totally an optimist too. Real life is hard enough, to also translate it to the things that are supposed to bring joy to it. As you said, it’s depressing to never have hope on something going right, not even before it unfolds.

Preach it, brothers!

Being optimistic about the Suns is saying you are hoping/expecting something good to happen that likely won't. How does that make you a happier person? It seems it would be disappointing to have your high hopes get crushed every year. Is it the 1 out of 10 years where we over achieve that keeps you going the next 9 years like potato farmers? (this is a serious questions from me, not trying to be a dick (but it does come easy) )

There's your problem (bolded) right there. That is not a fact. That is an unknown. There will be some good and there will be some not so good (aka bad). Why decide ahead of time that it will be all bad. It's just like the people you like to hang out with. It's no fun hanging with a Debbie Downer. It's a lot more fun hanging with somebody that has a positive outlook on life.