NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

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Nodack
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NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Nodack » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:39 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-49995985
Last Sunday night, Daryl Morey, the General Manager of the Houston Rockets, sat in his hotel room in Tokyo, where the Rockets were playing two pre-season games against the current NBA champions, the Toronto Raptors. Mr Morey - in a move that would reverberate around the sporting world and beyond - then fired off a tweet expressing support for the protestors in Hong Kong who have been taking to the streets for the past four months.

While he hasn't explicitly admitted as much, it's safe to say he now regrets hitting that send button.
Close to a week later, the fallout from that single, quickly-deleted tweet - which included the words "Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong" - is still dominating the news cycle.

We've seen posts from Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta, an explanation of sorts from Mr Morey, and not one, but two statements on the matter by the National Basketball Association (NBA), none of which appears to have appeased Chinese fans and sponsors, who were furious that an outsider was stirring up an issue many there regard as non-negotiable.

Freedom of speech, they argued, doesn't apply in certain areas and it wasn't Mr Morey's place to comment in the first place.
To top it all off, the league's handling of the situation simultaneously managed to spark a backlash back at home, with US fans and politicians alike calling out the league for pandering too much to China.


What do you guys think? The NBA obviously wants China on board. Then again the US generally supports the protesters in Honk Kong. China’s stance is definitely stay the F out of our business NBA. Should the NBA pander to China and restrict anyone in the NBA from making any statements about Hong Kong like they have done now or should people speak be able to speak freely because this is the US and we aren’t owned by China? It’s an interesting conundrum.

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Nodack
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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Nodack » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:29 pm

An actual current political/basketball topic on a basketball site and nobody has an opinion?

Ok, I’ll start. It’s a really touchy subject. The only appropriate answer about Hong Kong for any basketball representative is to not have an opinion at all. If you are pro China, then you support them and not the protesters. If you support the protesters, you are anti China. The Rockets GM came out in support of the protestors and then the Star player Harden comes out in support of China. Now the NBA is trying to kiss China’s ass because they have a business relationship with them that they don’t want to screw up. Is that pandering? The NBA prides itself in all it’s programs that help the poor and suffering and then turn a blind eye to Hong Kong because business is business?

I am not sure what I do as an NBA executive. I guess putting out an interior memo telling everybody not not say a word about Hong Kong ever would be my direction.

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Superbone » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:42 pm

Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:11 am

If I'm being objective here, Daryl Morey is the a******. China has been doing this s*** for decades, and he knows what time it is.

Corporations and those alike have had innumerable chances to call out the PRC, but they've declined mostly in favor of profit. Now "everyone" gives a s*** because of democracy? Miss me with that bullshit.

It's a farce. I think Morey is playing a long game that results in him no longer being GM of the Houston Rockets on his terms while being portrayed as a martyr.
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Mori Chu
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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Mori Chu » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:48 pm

I don't know Morey's motivations. But it is troubling that so many American businesses enter into agreements with authoritarian China and then allow the Chinese government to stifle the free speech of people associated with those American businesses. China should not be able to reach out to silence an American on Twitter who tries to say that he supports the Hong Kong protests. It's chilling that our businesses would endorse such extreme levels of censorship just to protect their Chinese dollars.

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Cap » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:56 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:48 pm
I don't know Morey's motivations. But it is troubling that so many American businesses enter into agreements with authoritarian China and then allow the Chinese government to stifle the free speech of people associated with those American businesses. China should not be able to reach out to silence an American on Twitter who tries to say that he supports the Hong Kong protests. It's chilling that our businesses would endorse such extreme levels of censorship just to protect their Chinese dollars.
In fairness, it’s a lot of dollars.
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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Nodack » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:58 pm

“Money is the root of all evil”

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Cap » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:57 pm

JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Indy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:34 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:11 am
If I'm being objective here, Daryl Morey is the a******. China has been doing this s*** for decades, and he knows what time it is.

Corporations and those alike have had innumerable chances to call out the PRC, but they've declined mostly in favor of profit. Now "everyone" gives a s*** because of democracy? Miss me with that bullshit.

It's a farce. I think Morey is playing a long game that results in him no longer being GM of the Houston Rockets on his terms while being portrayed as a martyr.
Are you saying Morey is an a****** because he waited until now to speak out, instead of speaking out regularly over the last 12 years he has been the GM in Houston? There has a been a ton of US coverage lately on the people fighting for freedom from deportation to China. I am not sure why he is an a****** for saying something about it.

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Mori Chu » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:28 pm

The protests have been this summer. That's what Morey commented about. I guess he could have commented on Hong Kong before that, but these protests are huge and historic and are drawing attention to this issue. Getting people outside HK/CHN to comment on this is one goal of the protests in the first place.

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:54 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:34 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:11 am
If I'm being objective here, Daryl Morey is the a******. China has been doing this s*** for decades, and he knows what time it is.

Corporations and those alike have had innumerable chances to call out the PRC, but they've declined mostly in favor of profit. Now "everyone" gives a s*** because of democracy? Miss me with that bullshit.

It's a farce. I think Morey is playing a long game that results in him no longer being GM of the Houston Rockets on his terms while being portrayed as a martyr.
Are you saying Morey is an a****** because he waited until now to speak out, instead of speaking out regularly over the last 12 years he has been the GM in Houston? There has a been a ton of US coverage lately on the people fighting for freedom from deportation to China. I am not sure why he is an a****** for saying something about it.
He's the a****** because his tweet has absolutely zero benefit to anyone other than himself. Of course everyone outside of China is going to agree with him, so what's the point? It's just lazy pandering that inevitably hurts the organization he works for more than helps the people being oppressed.
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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Nodack » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:29 am

This whole China/Hong Kong thing is kind of whacky. I took the liberty of posting a Wikipedia description of the political landscape of Hong Kong and China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong ... a_conflict

Hong Kong was originally ruled by Imperial China up to the Qing dynasty in 1842 when the Treaty of Nanking ceded the island to the British Empire and later expanded to include the Kowloon Peninsula in 1860 after the Second Opium War and later by the Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory in 1898 to include the New Territories. From 1941 to 1945, it was occupied by the Japanese Empire.

In 1972, after the change of the Chinese seat in the United Nations, the People's Republic of China, established in 1949 after the lengthy civil war, requested that Hong Kong be removed from the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories, thus depriving Hong Kong's right for independence. This led to the transfer of sovereignty of Hong Kong from the United Kingdom to the PRC which began during the negotiations of the Sino-British Joint Declaration in December 1984 and concluded during a special handover ceremony on July 1, 1997.

The terms agreed between the governments for the transfer included a series of guarantees for the maintenance of Hong Kong's differing economic, political and legal systems after the transfer, and the further development of Hong Kong's political system with a goal of democratic government. These guarantees were set out in the Sino-British Joint Declaration and enshrined in the semi-constitutional Basic Law of Hong Kong. Initially, many Hong Kongers were enthusiastic about Hong Kong's return to China.

However, tension has arisen between Hong Kong residents and the mainland, and in particular the central government, since 1997, and especially in the late 2000s and early 2010s.[1] Controversial policies such as the Individual Visit Scheme and the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link[2] have been seized on as focal points of discontent. Some (2011) argue that since the Hong Kong government failed to force through the legislation to implement Article 23 of the Basic Law, Beijing's relatively hands-off approach to Hong Kong changed dramatically. This view holds that the PRC's strategy is aimed at trying to dissolve the boundary between Hong Kong and the rest of China.[3] Some representatives of the central government have adopted increasingly strong rhetoric perceived to be attacking Hong Kong's political and legal systems. More formally, the Central People's Government released a report in 2014 that asserts that Hong Kong's judiciary should be subordinate to, and not independent of, the government.[4] The Basic Law and the Sino-British Joint Declaration guarantee the development of Hong Kong's electoral system towards universal suffrage, but the more pro-democracy parts of the Legislative Council rejected incremental progress. By the time the central government stepped in with a view, the so-called Pan-Democrats had adopted an all-or-nothing strategy that derailed any hope of progress in time for elections in 2008-2018.[5]

Hong Kong has more international cultural values from its past as a British colony and international city, and at the same time has retained many traditional Chinese cultural values, putting it in stark contrast to the culture of many parts of mainland China, where many international cultural values have never taken root and where many traditional cultural values have evolved.[6] Hong Kong is also a multi-ethnic society with different cultural values in relation to race, languages and cultures to those held by the Chinese government and many mainland residents. As a highly developed economy with a high standard of living, Hong Kong culture has different values in relation to hygiene and social propriety compared to mainland China. Hong Kong-mainland conflict is mainly attributed to the cultural differences[7] between Hong Kong people and mainlanders, such as languages,[8] as well as the significant growth in number of mainland visitors. Since the implementation of Individual Visit Scheme[9] on 28 July 2003, the number of mainland visitors increased from 6.83 million in 2002 to 40.7 million in 2013, according to the statistics provided by the Hong Kong Tourism Board.[10][11] The conflict associates to issues regarding the allocation of resources between mainlanders and Hong Kong people in different sectors, such as healthcare and education.[12]

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Nodack » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:01 am

It sounds to me like China wants Hong Kong back as a regular part of China and not some successful Democratic city that’s not really part of China that everybody in China wants to visit. I can see why the people of Hong Kong want to remain independent. At some point it will come to a head and that seems to be sooner than later.

The NBA has a huge deal with China and certainly doesn’t want it screwed up. Why did Morey speak up now and now a decade or two sooner? That’s a question he would have to answer. The tensions in Hong Kong have certainly ratcheted up a lot more lately. Maybe the violence and protests going on was his red line. Maybe he just wasn’t thinking when he posted his support of Hong Kong. China is real sensitive to this subject. He pulled his post but not soon enough.

China wants to assimilate Hong Kong like the Borg. Trump pulled out of Syria like Putin and Turkey wanted. He has no problem deserting allies. Trump wants a trade deal with China. Trump has already asked for dirt on Biden from China. The Trump I imagine would sign a trade deal with China that includes the US looking the other way if China invades Hong Kong. I know, a little far fetched but, I wouldn’t put anything past that guy.

Then what does the NBA do? Surely there would be severe backlash. Does the NBA pretend everything is fine? Hong Kong isn’t our problem anymore? They didn’t help us during Normandy? I think the more severe it gets between China and Hong Kong the more you will hear people speaking out on it. Is that good or bad?

I can see China’s point. They are a Communist country. Having a thriving part of China that is an independent Democracy is a big middle finger and dangerous for the other Chinese to see. It’s a prize they want and not the Democracy part.

The US has traditionally taken Hong Kongs side and acted as their protector. Maybe that protection is gone now with a new US policy. Things could go south fast and the NBA might have to make a few decisions.

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Nodack » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:27 am

Hill editor-in-chief: NBA is 'bending down' to 'almighty dollar'
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/46538 ... hty-dollar
“This is a disaster for the NBA,” Cusack told Hill.TV on Friday, noting how the league is shutting down questions from journalists and not allowing players to respond to the controversy.

Following the incident with CNN, the NBA announced on Friday that it would conclude its preseason tour in China without holding any more press conferences, according to the Associated Press.


That doesn’t sound like a Democracy to me.

Both former Rep. Beto O’Rourke (D-Texas) and Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) ripped the NBA’s statement.

O’Rourke called it an “embarrassment,” while Cruz argued that the only thing the NBA should be apologizing for is “their blatant prioritization of profits over human rights.”

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:41 am

f*** Ted Cruz and everyone else in US politics who has prioritized profits over human rights for decades.
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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by AmareIsGod » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:05 pm

What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Nodack » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:30 pm

Morey seems informed on what China is doing. He might not be informed of NBA policy dictating 100% support of China’s policies. lebron is well informed on China ass kissing.

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Indy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:24 am

Nodack wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:30 pm
Morey seems informed on what China is doing. He might not be informed of NBA policy dictating 100% support of China’s policies. lebron is well informed on China ass kissing.
pretty sure nike controls lebron more than the NBA.

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Indy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:25 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:54 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:34 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:11 am
If I'm being objective here, Daryl Morey is the a******. China has been doing this s*** for decades, and he knows what time it is.

Corporations and those alike have had innumerable chances to call out the PRC, but they've declined mostly in favor of profit. Now "everyone" gives a s*** because of democracy? Miss me with that bullshit.

It's a farce. I think Morey is playing a long game that results in him no longer being GM of the Houston Rockets on his terms while being portrayed as a martyr.
Are you saying Morey is an a****** because he waited until now to speak out, instead of speaking out regularly over the last 12 years he has been the GM in Houston? There has a been a ton of US coverage lately on the people fighting for freedom from deportation to China. I am not sure why he is an a****** for saying something about it.
He's the a****** because his tweet has absolutely zero benefit to anyone other than himself. Of course everyone outside of China is going to agree with him, so what's the point? It's just lazy pandering that inevitably hurts the organization he works for more than helps the people being oppressed.
He is an a****** because his tweet only benefits him? How did it benefit him?

Also, he shouldn't say stuff about human rights if his boss doesn't want him to say it? So he is an a****** for saying it?

I don't get it.

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Re: NBA/China/Hong Kong Controversy

Post by Mori Chu » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:23 pm

Interesting article by Zeynep Tufekci (follow her on Twitter!) on this situation:

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... et/600001/

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