Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

[Pips]

Baynes, Ayton was also done that, but only Šarić keep doing that every game, if he cant do that on 3 point shot, he does 2+1.

[Drewsprocket]

You have to wonder after a game like last night, would you trade Oubre for an athletic PF, a solid backup PG or a dangerous 3 point shooter? I only ask because we were very balanced last night with our Big 3, Booker, Ayton and Rubio. I feel like when Oubre is out there, for all the great things he does, his ball dominance and inability to facilitate plays for his teammates may limit a player like Ayton.

CJ for Baynes and Oubre would get it done for PDX. Suns would have their sixth man and crunch time knock down threat. Probably worse on D though.

[O_Gardino]

Pretty fun game to watch.

I'm actually excited to see what Bridges and Cam can do. Lots of pressure on Saric tonight, since we can't go Oubre / Bridges. If Dario is off, we might see Booker / Bridges at forward with Tyler Johnson or Okobo at shooting guard to close the game.

Bridges / Cam / Saric were good enough that we didn't need to panic and play any crazy lineups. All 3 of those guys look better when the stars on the team are playing like stars. You guys know I'm biased, but Bridges is particularly fun to watch when we aren't asking him to create against pressure. He just does all the little things and those skinny arms go flying into the action when I don't expect it.

It's very encouraging to see the chemistry building and Ayton improving. Booker is still getting his, but not at the expense of ball movement or Ayton's touches.

As for trading Oubre or Baynes... it depends on who is available. We've got to eventually make a move with Oubre / Bridges / Cam. There's no sense in keeping all 3. Baynes is fine, IMO. He's still recovering and is just in a mini-slump. I'd like to keep him until he retires, honestly. But if we need to include him to make a deal happen, then so be it. I think Aaron and Kelly both bring important attitude to the team and I don't want to ditch them just to ditch them. Only if it's a clear upgrade.

[Shabazz]

Ayton was great and I think it’s important to remember that this was only like his 10th game and 2nd time starting without Baynes. He was also very impressive in game 1. He needs to start. Baynes needs to stay on the bench. Honestly I’d trade Baynes if anyone was offering anything of value.

We’ve had minor quibbles with Ayton..almost all of those were not apparent last night. He was attacking the rim, he was attacking the glass. I think he’s earned some credit here. Let’s keep him in the starting lineup, keep him playing with Rubio/Booker and maybe we can find some rhythm and go on a run after that 8 seed. It’s still sitting there for the taking.

One thing I’d like to point out. Ayton has two blocks last night that were very impressive. He seems to be understanding how big he is on defense. In both cases it looked like he was beat a little by the ball handler. He stayed tall against Barrett, blocked the shot, and more importantly, recovered his own block. Payton got past Ayton and Ayton just stayed tall, arms up and instead of attacking Payton, just covered up the rim. He knew Payton would have to throw the ball up towards the rim, Ayton stood tall, both arms blocking any pathway towards the rim. He’s figuring some stuff out defensively and it’s really nice to see.

He also pump faked at least once

I counted 2!

[Flagrant Fowl]

You have to wonder after a game like last night, would you trade Oubre for an athletic PF, a solid backup PG or a dangerous 3 point shooter? I only ask because we were very balanced last night with our Big 3, Booker, Ayton and Rubio. I feel like when Oubre is out there, for all the great things he does, his ball dominance and inability to facilitate plays for his teammates may limit a player like Ayton.

CJ for Baynes and Oubre would get it done for PDX. Suns would have their sixth man and crunch time knock down threat. Probably worse on D though.

Get it done for PDX? If I'm Portland, I hang up the phone immediately.

[Drewsprocket]

Lol. My Portland friends proposed that to me when the Suns were rolling out the gate. I said no. I see you’re Oregonian. Blazers are desperate for a 3 and D and bench guy.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Lol. My Portland friends proposed that to me when the Suns were rolling out the gate. I said no. I see you’re Oregonian. Blazers are desperate for a 3 and D and bench guy.

I assume the front office in Portland knows that Kelly Oubre is not a 3 and D guy.

[Indy]

Here's most of the Breen call on the 60 foot ally-oop:

Duane always gets the best interview tidbits.

[JeremyG]

I hope everyone can stop hatin' on Ayton (hayton?) now.

Yes. This one game should absolve him of any criticism for the rest of his career.

Exactly. He is capable of doing this (or close to it) every freakin game. That is the reason he was taken #1. If he were playing this way each night, nobody here would be complaining or expecting more. We also would be competing for home court advantage in the playoffs.

The point is that he will get there, people just need to be patient. In a year or two, he might be playing like that every game. But he's still young and learning.

[AmareIsGod]

I hope everyone can stop hatin' on Ayton (hayton?) now.

Yes. This one game should absolve him of any criticism for the rest of his career.

Exactly. He is capable of doing this (or close to it) every freakin game. That is the reason he was taken #1. If he were playing this way each night, nobody here would be complaining or expecting more. We also would be competing for home court advantage in the playoffs.

The point is that he will get there, people just need to be patient. In a year or two, he might be playing like that every game. But he's still young and learning.

People forget that most big men / centers take time to develop and that he's barely 21 years of age. He had 1 year of college experience under his belt where he really wasn't coached or utilized correctly. Add in the 25 game suspension and ankle injury and it's difficult to understand why everyone was so upset with sky high expectations. I'm glad that people are learning to be a little more patient but also worry that such a great game last night will raise the bar sky high on what he needs to do every single night out.

I've never heard a single player over analyzed as much as Ayton. On the local sports radio, they constantly talk about the 3 or 4 plays he took off or didn't seem as engaged as he should be. They never talk about Booker, Rubio, Oubre, ANYONE at the same level of scrutiny. I promise you, if you looked closely, you could criticize multiple possessions every single game where every star player takes plays off or has a mental lapse. Nobody goes 100% for 100% of the minutes they play. But nobody talks about it the way they do regarding Ayton.

[Drewsprocket]

Lol. My Portland friends proposed that to me when the Suns were rolling out the gate. I said no. I see you’re Oregonian. Blazers are desperate for a 3 and D and bench guy.

I assume the front office in Portland knows that Kelly Oubre is not a 3 and D guy.

I know what you mean... But Kelly is making pretty much 35% of his threes on five attempts, 1.5 steals, .8 blocks, and his Defense has literally won at least one game in the 4 th quarter with his team on his back. So let’s just give him a pass shall we. Geez man, go hug your kids tonight or take your nephew out and buy him an ice cream. Suns fans are too harsh. Oubre isn’t all that consistent but when he’s locked in he can stop anyone and hit from deep as good as any wing.

[Cap]

People forget that most big men / centers take time to develop and that he's barely 21 years of age.

That’s just something people say when a young center is disappointing.

[AmareIsGod]

People forget that most big men / centers take time to develop and that he's barely 21 years of age.

That’s just something people say when a young center is disappointing.

Okay. Because every single great center dominated the league from day 1. None of the greats took a season or two before they became truly great.

[SunsRIt]

People forget that most big men / centers take time to develop and that he's barely 21 years of age.

That’s just something people say when a young center is disappointing.

Okay. Because every single great center dominated the league from day 1. None of the greats took a season or two before they became truly great.

I’ve said this before: almost every great center was in college at least 3 years. Or took a couple of years to develop in the league.

[AmareIsGod]

People forget that most big men / centers take time to develop and that he's barely 21 years of age.

That’s just something people say when a young center is disappointing.

Okay. Because every single great center dominated the league from day 1. None of the greats took a season or two before they became truly great.

I’ve said this before: almost every great center was in college at least 3 years. Or took a couple of years to develop in the league.

Recent dominant bigs have very similar stats in their first year or two as Ayton. Embiid is a perfect example. And he missed his first 2 seasons with injuries. Ayton actually has been a better rebounder with similar or better block stats.

[Nodack]

Ayton is doing fine.

[Superbone]

People forget that most big men / centers take time to develop and that he's barely 21 years of age.

That’s just something people say when a young center is disappointing.

Okay. Because every single great center dominated the league from day 1. None of the greats took a season or two before they became truly great.

I’ve said this before: almost every great center was in college at least 3 years. Or took a couple of years to develop in the league.

Recent dominant bigs have very similar stats in their first year or two as Ayton. Embiid is a perfect example. And he missed his first 2 seasons with injuries. Ayton actually has been a better rebounder with similar or better block stats.

I would hope Ayton's stats are as good as Embiid's when he missed his first 2 seasons!

[AmareIsGod]

That’s just something people say when a young center is disappointing.

Okay. Because every single great center dominated the league from day 1. None of the greats took a season or two before they became truly great.

I’ve said this before: almost every great center was in college at least 3 years. Or took a couple of years to develop in the league.

Recent dominant bigs have very similar stats in their first year or two as Ayton. Embiid is a perfect example. And he missed his first 2 seasons with injuries. Ayton actually has been a better rebounder with similar or better block stats.

I would hope Ayton's stats are as good as Embiid's when he missed his first 2 seasons!

Lol. Sorry. Meant to say, Embiid's first 2 healthy seasons. Other than PPG.

[Cap]

Okay. Because every single great center dominated the league from day 1. None of the greats took a season or two before they became truly great.

I’ve said this before: almost every great center was in college at least 3 years. Or took a couple of years to develop in the league.

Recent dominant bigs have very similar stats in their first year or two as Ayton. Embiid is a perfect example. And he missed his first 2 seasons with injuries. Ayton actually has been a better rebounder with similar or better block stats.

I would hope Ayton's stats are as good as Embiid's when he missed his first 2 seasons!

Lol. Sorry. Meant to say, Embiid's first 2 healthy seasons. Other than PPG.

Code: Select all

                                                                                                                                   
Rk          Player From   To  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1    Deandre Ayton 2019 2020 82 76 2523 8.5 14.6 .581 0.0 0.1 .000 8.5 14.5 .584 2.2 2.9 .748 3.8 8.5 12.3 2.1 0.9 1.2 2.1 3.5 19.2
2      Joel Embiid 2017 2018 94 94 2698 9.5 19.8 .478 1.4 4.2 .327 8.1 15.7 .518 7.3 9.5 .774 2.7 9.7 12.4 3.5 0.9 2.5 4.7 4.3 27.6

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 1/17/2020.

OK, other than points, rebounds, assists, blocks, FT%, FTA (!!!), 3P%, 3P, PER, BPM, VORP, WS, WS/48, yada, yada, yada...

[AmareIsGod]

I’ve said this before: almost every great center was in college at least 3 years. Or took a couple of years to develop in the league.

Recent dominant bigs have very similar stats in their first year or two as Ayton. Embiid is a perfect example. And he missed his first 2 seasons with injuries. Ayton actually has been a better rebounder with similar or better block stats.

I would hope Ayton's stats are as good as Embiid's when he missed his first 2 seasons!

Lol. Sorry. Meant to say, Embiid's first 2 healthy seasons. Other than PPG.

Code: Select all

                                                                                                                                   
Rk          Player From   To  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1    Deandre Ayton 2019 2020 82 76 2523 8.5 14.6 .581 0.0 0.1 .000 8.5 14.5 .584 2.2 2.9 .748 3.8 8.5 12.3 2.1 0.9 1.2 2.1 3.5 19.2
2      Joel Embiid 2017 2018 94 94 2698 9.5 19.8 .478 1.4 4.2 .327 8.1 15.7 .518 7.3 9.5 .774 2.7 9.7 12.4 3.5 0.9 2.5 4.7 4.3 27.6

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 1/17/2020.

OK, other than points, rebounds, assists, blocks, FT%, FTA (!!!), 3P%, 3P, PER, BPM, VORP, WS, WS/48, yada, yada, yada...

What part of similar or better can't you understand? In many statistical categories, they are similar. Does Embiid somehow dominate statistically across the board? I'm lost with your comparison. Also, are you in the camp of highly disappointed in Ayton thus far and think he should be further along? Likely doesn't have what it takes to be dominant? Lack of years in the league and age not being relevant for a big? Where are you in the Ayton camp Cap?