Suns News: Weeks 16-18 2/10-3/1

[Superbone]

That's more than reasonable. I'm actually glad Orlando didn't take it, and Oubre has been better than Gordon this year.

The short-sightedness of this staff is amazing. They are enamored with the stats and the valley boyz ride the wave tsunami papi glam, and blinded so badly they can’t see what’s right in front of them - an awful fit next to Booker and Ayton. A me-first, tunnel vision, inconsistent defensive player with low IQ. Great for the box score, not a good complementary piece for Ayton and Booker.

Bridges and Cam are high IQ with the skills needed to play them aside the 2 franchise cornerstones, and yet it is the short term marketability of Kelly they are enamored with, not realizing the long term goal of making the playoffs is what will actually bring sustained revenue to the organization.


For those who reached out, appreciate the concern. I’ve been fine the last month, I was banned by the site owner. I could go on about how I feel about it, but he owns the site so not much I can do but accept it and move on. Happy to be back. I was fuming over the deadline. Very happy about Aytons play (and in disbelief by the continued lack of recognition by some people here) dude is going to be an elite defender in this league. This training staff needs to be fired and they need to hire an actual training staff next year. The minor injuries taking months to heal is getting ridiculous.

I'd be wary of undermining team chemistry with an Oubre for Gordon Oubre swap - Oubre's well liked and Gordon looks to be dogging it in Orlando; not exactly screaming high character after he got his huge contract. If we could find a way to have both in the offseason, however..

Team chemistry? This is the same company line as we didn’t want to ruin team “cohesion.” These are things people can say when you have a good team and the right parts. We suck. We have parts that don’t fit well together. They may have good off court chemistry but Kelly doesn’t play well in the system. It’s often times 4 guys playing in the flow, then Kelly gets it for a possession and goes iso ball. The on court chemistry is poor IMO.

Oubre has been the 2nd best player on this team this year, and it isn't even close.

Yep, he has tunnel vision when he gets in the open court.
Yep, he isn't a "High IQ" basketball player.
And yep, he's flashy even when we are down 10 points.

BUT

He is 1st in blocks
He is 1st in rebounds
He is 1st in 3s
He has the highest 3P% of our starters
He is 2nd in points scored
He is 2nd in minutes played
He is 2nd in FTA
He is 2nd in steals

Let's not let facts get in the way, Indy. He does push ups and wears fancy clothes! Oh, the horror!

[Nodack]

Oubre is doing fine.

[Split T]

Your commitment to hating Oubre is impressive, Saucy, but it’s getting more ridiculous. He’s playing very well.

[specialsauce]

Y’all are watching box scores not games!

[INFORMER]

The Suns are going to win the lottery and then flip the pick for Bradley Beal. Speaking it into existence.

Karma still owes is one.

Does it? Last time the Suns got it, they failed to get the best player. Why should they get a second chance?

[INFORMER]

I would be stoked if we spent the cap space on getting Toronto’s Ibaka and Vanvleet. We’d have a veteran presence who can space the floor and isn’t soft. Vanvleet would be 6th man of the year spelling either Booker or Rubio-probably replacing Rubio in the long run.

VanVleet is better than Rubio and should start over him. Plus, the Suns don't have enough cap space for VanVleet and Ibaka. They would likely require about $35-40 million annually combined.

We would have to see a deal like sending Rubio to NY for the non-guaranteed contracts of Wayne Ellington and Elfrid Payton, plus a second rounder. Then waive the two of them to create the necessary additional cap space.

[SunsRIt]

The Suns are going to win the lottery and then flip the pick for Bradley Beal. Speaking it into existence.

Karma still owes is one.

Does it? Last time the Suns got it, they failed to get the best player. Why should they get a second chance?

It still remains to be seen who is the best player from that draft. Ayton still may be. We can’t judge it by a season and a half.

[Gladiator]

The Suns are going to win the lottery and then flip the pick for Bradley Beal. Speaking it into existence.

Karma still owes is one.

Does it? Last time the Suns got it, they failed to get the best player. Why should they get a second chance?

It still remains to be seen who is the best player from that draft. Ayton still may be. We can’t judge it by a season and a half.

On career output, Ayton is coming from a long way back after that season and a half (even if I am encouraged by his recent play).

[Split T]

Y’all are watching box scores not games!

I watch a lot of games. You’re just seeing what you want to see. He’s not a perfect player, you’re not wrong about some of his flaws(tunnel vision, gambles defensively) I think you just aren’t factoring in all of his positive contributions. It’s the 80/20 rule...you’re focusing on the 20% he does bad and not counting the 80% he does right. He’s been a good/clutch 3 pt shooter for us this year. He’s the only player on the team that can score without needing Booker or Rubio to help them. He’s top 15 in the league in deflections.

Do you think we don’t need his offense? Do you think his steals/deflections don’t matter? He’s rebounding at a career high rate, is that worthless? He’s basically at his career low turnover rate and at his 2nd highest usage rate? Does taking care of the ball on offense mean nothing? You think he takes bad shots, he’s still above average in offensive efficiency. He’s also been better in all these categories in the last month.

You get on people for judging Ayton too harshly at times, no one judges one of our players more harshly than you do Oubre. I doubt this will change your opinion, but watch a game and count the positive things he does, they’ll outnumber the negative.

[Indy]

I think I have missed 4 games this year due to travel. I watch a lot of Suns basketball. And I am not known as an optimist around here, or sugar coating anything. I didn't expect Oubre to live up to his contract based on what we had seen through last season. But I was wrong, and he is living up to it so far this year.

[Indy]

The Suns are going to win the lottery and then flip the pick for Bradley Beal. Speaking it into existence.

Karma still owes is one.

Does it? Last time the Suns got it, they failed to get the best player. Why should they get a second chance?

Isn't it about 50% of #1s taken end up to NOT be the best player in their draft?

[Split T]

I don’t really want the #1 pick in this draft. I’d obviously take it, but I’d probably trade it if I got it. I started looking at some prospects this week and I’m not really any more excited about the 1-6 prospects as I am the 7-15 prospects. We’ll probably be around 10 and I’m perfectly fine with that. Haven’t done any in depth scouting, but there’s a few I’m intrigued with there(Tyrese Halliburton, Obi Toppin, Theo Maledon, Killian Hayes, Saddiq Bey)

[Flagrant Fowl]

What's with the Israeli kid, Deni Avdija? I like his YouTube clips and he seems like he could eventually be a stretch four.

[Split T]

What's with the Israeli kid, Deni Avdija? I like his YouTube clips and he seems like he could eventually be a stretch four.

He seems to be rising lately...looks like he’s probably going top 5. Worth a look if we jump into the top 4. I haven’t watched him at all though.

[specialsauce]

Y’all are watching box scores not games!

I watch a lot of games. You’re just seeing what you want to see. He’s not a perfect player, you’re not wrong about some of his flaws(tunnel vision, gambles defensively) I think you just aren’t factoring in all of his positive contributions. It’s the 80/20 rule...you’re focusing on the 20% he does bad and not counting the 80% he does right. He’s been a good/clutch 3 pt shooter for us this year. He’s the only player on the team that can score without needing Booker or Rubio to help them. He’s top 15 in the league in deflections.

Do you think we don’t need his offense? Do you think his steals/deflections don’t matter? He’s rebounding at a career high rate, is that worthless? He’s basically at his career low turnover rate and at his 2nd highest usage rate? Does taking care of the ball on offense mean nothing? You think he takes bad shots, he’s still above average in offensive efficiency. He’s also been better in all these categories in the last month.

You get on people for judging Ayton too harshly at times, no one judges one of our players more harshly than you do Oubre. I doubt this will change your opinion, but watch a game and count the positive things he does, they’ll outnumber the negative.

I’ve watched 95% of the games this year. To me Oubres offense comes at the expense of the rest of the team. The nights he’s off he brings the whole ship down with him, and he is not important enough to have such an effect (Booker should have that level of usage, Kelly does this on his own because of his tunnel vision).

His deflections come at the expense of positional defense: and the 3-4 deflections he gets are often out of 10-15 attempts, and when he doesn’t get them or the flashy block that means leaving his own man wide open for a 3 or layup.

He’s worth $15M/year, but only once the team and Kelly both realize he’s a black hole best suited for 20 mpg off the bench.

[3rdside]

So here's the Oubre/Magic trade discussion, assuming this info is accurate.

That's more than reasonable. I'm actually glad Orlando didn't take it, and Oubre has been better than Gordon this year.

The short-sightedness of this staff is amazing. They are enamored with the stats and the valley boyz ride the wave tsunami papi glam, and blinded so badly they can’t see what’s right in front of them - an awful fit next to Booker and Ayton. A me-first, tunnel vision, inconsistent defensive player with low IQ. Great for the box score, not a good complementary piece for Ayton and Booker.

Bridges and Cam are high IQ with the skills needed to play them aside the 2 franchise cornerstones, and yet it is the short term marketability of Kelly they are enamored with, not realizing the long term goal of making the playoffs is what will actually bring sustained revenue to the organization.


For those who reached out, appreciate the concern. I’ve been fine the last month, I was banned by the site owner. I could go on about how I feel about it, but he owns the site so not much I can do but accept it and move on. Happy to be back. I was fuming over the deadline. Very happy about Aytons play (and in disbelief by the continued lack of recognition by some people here) dude is going to be an elite defender in this league. This training staff needs to be fired and they need to hire an actual training staff next year. The minor injuries taking months to heal is getting ridiculous.

I'd be wary of undermining team chemistry with an Oubre for Gordon Oubre swap - Oubre's well liked and Gordon looks to be dogging it in Orlando; not exactly screaming high character after he got his huge contract. If we could find a way to have both in the offseason, however..

Team chemistry? This is the same company line as we didn’t want to ruin team “cohesion.” These are things people can say when you have a good team and the right parts. We suck. We have parts that don’t fit well together. They may have good off court chemistry but Kelly doesn’t play well in the system. It’s often times 4 guys playing in the flow, then Kelly gets it for a possession and goes iso ball. The on court chemistry is poor IMO.

It's hard to say we suck as we didn't have Ayton for 25 games, then another 5 games.

When he came back other players went down, and Rubio's only just beginning to play decent again just in time for Deandre's latest two game injury.

If Saric comes back we could see Oubre off the bench, which is fine as he is too much iso-hero sometimes and if we traded him in the off season I'd be fine with that also.

But chemistry and working with these players is the thing for now - if it wasn't; and if they really didn't think this team could work, then we might have done something this deadline past.

[specialsauce]

3rdside, what you’re saying is what Suns management is saying- and I ain’t buying that personally. This team is not a healthy season from competing for a legitimate playoff spot. And I don’t think another year under their belt accomplishes that either. Aside from DA Book Bridges and Cam, they need a roster turnover IMO

[3rdside]

I'm a tragic optimist (trying to learn otherwise, in my defence) so take what I say with a pinch of salt:

- The team could be competitive with more reps - the W-L stats with a full complement bear this out, and chemistry can't be overrated in its contribution to this. I've had a good feeling about the chemistry since we got Williams and Rubio - and yes, keeping Kelly - but it can't yet be proven any benefit exists yet as everyone's been suspended or injured.

- Whether that's bad luck or bad player management I don't know (i'm inclined to think the latter) but it's really unfortunate.

- If you're management you'd want to see the end product of your off season before doing anything - so it's surely bad business to discard something before you even got a good chance to look at it.

We've got the all star break, Booker is there, it's a week off - like the tragic GD Phoenix Suns optimist I am I can feel this time we're definitely going to turn it around.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Theo Maledon

I like this kid. Great footwork, handle, passing vision. Looks comfortable being the youngest player on the court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%A9o_Maledon

Born in Rouen, Maledon played youth basketball for French sports institute INSEP before joining the youth ranks of ASVEL, at age 16 in 2017. He played for the senior team in the same year as its second youngest debutant. One year later, he saw breakout success at the senior level, becoming the youngest LNB All-Star in history and winning the LNB Pro A Best Young Player award, while helping ASVEL capture Pro A and French Cup titles.

Sounds like everything I wish Elie Okobo was.

[Superbone]

Tearing up this team yet again is a terrible idea. I have no doubt that if we had Ayton the entire season and our bench had stayed healthy that we’d be in the playoff mix.