Suns News: Offseason

[iLLmatic]

I know I have been a big critic of Rubio, and that has been much more based on what I expect to see from him in year 2 and 3 of his contract. But there is no way that Paul is worth 25M more than Rubio each year. If we do a trade, it better include some great picks coming back to us.

You just know James Jones is about to get bent over a barrel by Presti. I absolutely want no part of Chris Paul on this team. He's on the wrong side of 30 and his contract is a monster. No thank you.

[Wally_West]

Look what Mikal liked.

[Split T]

I know I have been a big critic of Rubio, and that has been much more based on what I expect to see from him in year 2 and 3 of his contract. But there is no way that Paul is worth 25M more than Rubio each year. If we do a trade, it better include some great picks coming back to us.

You just know James Jones is about to get bent over a barrel by Presti. I absolutely want no part of Chris Paul on this team. He's on the wrong side of 30 and his contract is a monster. No thank you.

It’s just 2 years. He’s still an all-star level player. I don’t think there’s any reason to think his game will trail off much. Injury would be the only concern, but that’s a concern for everyone. He played 70 of 72 games last year.

I’m not necessary in favor of the trade. I’d like to keep Kelly, but I don’t see a lot of downside other than losing Kelly. And the small chance that we could do something better to improve the current team(sign FVV)

[Indy]

Look what Mikal liked.

is that real?

[Indy]

I just checked. it is.

[Drewsprocket]

I just checked. it is.

Oh sheeeyit. That’s cool. Part of me wonders if Chris would fight being traded here. You gotta imagine he wants to play with Lebron. Thoughts?

[Split T]

I don’t think there’s a way to get him to the Lakers that works salary wise and that OKC would agree to.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm not going to lose any sleep over trading the 10th pick if it nets the Suns CP3 and a legitimate playoff run.

Will he give us that?

I think that puts us in a position to make it to the second round, which I consider legitimate after the drought we've endured.

The hard part is weighing it against other hypothetical deals and FA signings.

[Flagrant Fowl]

The first thing I think all of us can agree on is that Chris Paul is a pain in the ass. The type of player you love to root against because he utilizes every trick in the book to win. He pulls shirts, he flops, he elbows, he works the refs better than anyone besides LeBron, and he might even be better at it.

Despite these drawbacks, make no mistake, he is far from the end of his career. He's exactly the type of guy this franchise has needed since Nash left. If you're too bent out of shape about the stuff I described above to cheer for him on the Suns, then I suggest you buy some lottery tickets because you'd probably get better odds at winning the Powerball than the Suns getting it right while also appeasing your basketball sensibilities.

[Split T]

I'm not going to lose any sleep over trading the 10th pick if it nets the Suns CP3 and a legitimate playoff run.

Will he give us that?

I think that puts us in a position to make it to the second round, which I consider legitimate after the drought we've endured.

The hard part is weighing it against other hypothetical deals and FA signings.

How I feel as well. Take CP3 out of OKC and we have the better team. He took them to game 7 round 1. I think a round 2 run would be very possible.

And I agree on the second point as well. CP3 makes us better, but FVV or Dinwiddie or maybe even Wood could be better routes for now and the future.

[Drewsprocket]

Oubre + Rubio is fine. But adding the 10th pick might be a steep (you know that’s what OKC is angling for) price to lose out on drafting our PG for the future.

[Split T]

Looked at other teams that might be interested in CP3 and what they could offer:

Lakers - Would need KCP to opt in and include him, Green, Bradley, and McGee to make salaries work. Do they have 1sts to trade? Kuzma I guess is an asset.

Clippers - Would need to move Beverley, Williams, Zubac, and McGruder. Zubac might be a nice piece. OKC could flip Lou and Beverley to other teams.

Philly - No way to do it without including awful contracts of either Horford or Harris.

Bucks - Could get there with Bledsoe, Ilyasova, Robin, Wilson(George Hill could replace 2 of last 3 as well)

Bulls? Would they want to make the move? They could do it for Porter/Satoransky.

Jazz? Conley for Paul straight up would work.

Knicks - Actually have a lot of avenues. If they want to include Randle, they have Payton, ntilikina, smith, bullock that give them options. They could also pick up team options on Portis or Gibson if they need salary and want to keep other players around.

Magic - Not sure they’d be interested, but they could easily make the salaries work. Gordon, Fournier, Fultz, Ross, Birch...they’ve got plenty of contracts.

Rubio/Oubre/Jerome one of the cleaner deals though with no bad contracts and only Rubio has gauranteed money past this year. Plus Oubre is young and valuable. I mostly do this to say I think there’s no way we should include #10 in any offer. None of these teams really have can’t miss offers we need to be competing against.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Great stuff Split. I also think OKC is trying to consider Paul's desire to play for at least a decent team. I don't think he'd be quick to OK a deal to Chicago or the Knicks despite the market size. I think if OKC went to him with a few more or less equal deals and let him pick the team, the Suns would likely be more attractive than any team except the Lakers or Bucks.

I don't think Paul and Doc Rivers are on great terms, so Philly seems very unlikely. I'm also not convinced Paul is eager to go back to the Clippers, but I wouldn't totally count that one out.

[Mori Chu]

I really hope we don't trade for Chris Paul. I like his game, but he's old and is about ready to have a big drop-off in his play. He's bound to be injured for 1/3 of the season. And you just know Presti will own us on the deal and make us give up Rubio, Oubre, and #10 or something like that. That's a huge haul for OKC for an old horse about ready to send to the glue factory.

This feels like the inverse of the Nash-to-Lakers trade, in which we dumped an aging big-name PG at just the right time for great assets and picks. You want to be the one giving away the old PG in that trade, not receiving him.

We also have a perfectly good point guard at less than half the price; his name is Ricky Rubae, and he'll do just fine, thank you.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I really don't see Paul as a guy who's on the edge of retirement like some of you guys are making it sound.

I don't pay attention to his injuries in Houston because that was under D'Antoni and I'd expect that no one needs a reminder about his coaching and player rotations. He was 49/35/90 shooting last season while still getting 1.5 steals per game. He's probably overpaid, but not not by much, and he's definitely going to get another contract in three seasons.

[Ring_Wanted]

Easiest way (not named Rubio+Oubre, which I would hate) to trade for Paul is to operate as an over the cap team, then send Rubio and Saric (sign and trade) plus fillers like Jerome, Okobo, Leque.

This allows PHX to keep #10 and use the MLE and BE. Also means we can keep Carter and Payne.

Paul-Booker-Carter-Payne
Bridges-Oubre-Cam
Ayton

Plus #10, MLE, BE to add a PF/C and depth.

[Shabazz]

If it’s Rubio and Oubre, it’s all about the other moves for me. If we can get Wood and Paul, or Grant and Paul (while retaining the pick), then it’s the right move. If Sarver feels content and doesn’t want to spend more and we’ve gutted our depth and lost opportunity to make other moves, then it’s not.

[Ring_Wanted]

If it’s Rubio and Oubre, it’s all about the other moves for me. If we can get Wood and Paul, or Grant and Paul (while retaining the pick), then it’s the right move. If Sarver feels content and doesn’t want to spend more and we’ve gutted our depth and lost opportunity to make other moves, then it’s not.

Agreed. Paul makes sense if the franchise actually tries to add other pieces, not just upgrade Rubio, let alone if it means losing Oubre.

This is why I absolutely favor a scenario where we trade Rubio and a signed-and-traded Saric (and/or Baynes, if OKC prefers) plus fillers, and would even add a future protected 1stR, instead of Oubre.

I know many would call me crazy for giving up the future 1stR, but if it is protected enough, I believe it is worth it: the Suns are primed for a two-year window of "controled all in" with Booker (I truly believe he won't take losing any longer). Under that premise, you do what you reasonably can to upgrade (Paul), without sacrifizing depth (Oubre, #10) while keeping enough flexibility to make further improvements (MLE+BE, future picks) for those two years.

[ShelC]

A few other things I've been thinking about...

Paul, as good as he's been on the court helping turn teams around and making guys better, doesn't seem to have a great rep as a teammate. So you're potentially messing with a feel-good team that has great chemistry to bring in an older player who can be a drag even when things are going well. And if there's one guy I'd be worried about Paul really giving a hard time to, it's Ayton. He'll either bring out the best in Ayton or totally crush him.

The other thing is Paul's contract situation. Is he eligible for some kind of an extension next summer or does he play out his PO and just hit FA? If an extension is possible next summer but we decline, does he become a headache the final year of that deal? If it's just a PO for 44mil, which he definitely won't opt out of, and we need to/want to trade him, will we be able to?

[Drewsprocket]

A few other things I've been thinking about...

Paul, as good as he's been on the court helping turn teams around and making guys better, doesn't seem to have a great rep as a teammate. So you're potentially messing with a feel-good team that has great chemistry to bring in an older player who can be a drag even when things are going well. And if there's one guy I'd be worried about Paul really giving a hard time to, it's Ayton. He'll either bring out the best in Ayton or totally crush him.

The other thing is Paul's contract situation. Is he eligible for some kind of an extension next summer or does he play out his PO and just hit FA? If an extension is possible next summer but we decline, does he become a headache the final year of that deal? If it's just a PO for 44mil, which he definitely won't opt out of, and we need to/want to trade him, will we be able to?

Very fair concerns. He becomes virtually untradable if he becomes cancerous. I kinda hate his game when he works the refs. But oh to have a scoring point god. I think he would do wonders if the suns could draft Hayes or Terry.