2020 Election Thread

[Superbone]

2nd worst?! Who was first?

[In2ition]

Carter was an idiot and the American people thought they were worse off then they were before while he was in office, and didn't have a lot of confidence going forward because of him and his policies.

[Mori Chu]

I don't think Carter was a great President, but Carter lost in '80 partly because Reagan illegally cut a deal so that Iran wouldn't release hostages before the election, which made Carter look bad.

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/01/ronald-r ... conspiracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_S ... ok%20place.

[Nodack]

2nd worst?! Who was first?

Worst US Presidents ranked

https://www.usnews.com/news/special-rep ... s?slide=10


1. James Buchanan
Born: April 23, 1791

Died: June 1, 1868

Presidential Term: March 4, 1857 - March 4, 1861

Vice President: John Breckinridge

He refused to challenge either the spread of slavery or the growing bloc of states that became the Confederacy.


2. Donald Trump
Born: June 14, 1946
Presidential Term: Jan. 20, 2017 - Jan 20, 2021
Vice President: Mike Pence
The only living president among the 10 worst presidents in history, Trump is also the only president to be impeached twice.

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2 ... ge=overall
C-Span says Trump was fourth worst.

https://www.businessinsider.com/histori ... pan-2021-6
Historians ranked Trump lower than any president in the past 150 years in a new C-SPAN survey.
Trump landed at No. 41 out of 44 presidents.
Barack Obama came in 10th, while Abraham Lincoln sat in the top spot.

[Superbone]

OK, thanks. Buchanan was a little bit before my time.

[Nodack]

Ya think?

[Indy]

On the second day of his presidency, Carter pardoned all Vietnam War draft evaders by issuing Proclamation 4483. During his term, two new cabinet-level departments—the Department of Energy and the Department of Education—were established. He created a national energy policy that included conservation, price control, and new technology. Carter pursued the Camp David Accords, the Panama Canal Treaties, the second round of Strategic Arms Limitation Talks (SALT II), and the return of the Panama Canal Zone to Panama. On the economic front, he confronted stagflation, a persistent combination of high inflation, high unemployment and slow growth. The end of his presidential tenure was marked by the 1979–1981 Iran hostage crisis, the 1979 energy crisis, the Three Mile Island nuclear accident, the Nicaraguan Revolution and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Polls of historians and political scientists generally rank Carter as a below-average president. His post-presidential activities have been viewed more favorably than his presidency

Carter was a below average President. Trump is ranked the second worst President in US history.

Absolutely to both of these points. And if you dig deeper, Carter was a below average US President, and a top 95% person. Trump is 2nd worse president, and bottom 5% person.

[Indy]

I don't think Carter was a great President, but Carter lost in '80 partly because Reagan illegally cut a deal so that Iran wouldn't release hostages before the election, which made Carter look bad.

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/01/ronald-r ... conspiracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_S ... ok%20place.

Exactly. Literally negotiating with terrorists. I thought that was unAmerican. Also, who built up Osama Bin Laden's terrorist organization? The Reagan admin. Who started the tax reductions for the 1% and corporations? Reagan.

[3rdside]

My response ..


Some comments in response (with the topic 'why is America in the state that it's in?' in mind):

1) Reganomics / trickle-down economics feels better in theory than in practice, but the state of the US government doesn't help, not least the sheer volume of money it misallocated to the largely pointless Middle East episode. US individualism giving rise to some of the less-kind human traits likewise (itself exacerbated by Fox News and Gingrich's brand of politics).

2) Generally agree but European governments appear to perform better vs USA (as measured by trust) and the quality of life in northern European countries much higher also (loosely measured by the world's most liveable cities indexes).
There's no 'correct' model of course, but the USA's lurch towards indecency (lack of decent healthcare, drug prices, decrepit infrastructure, no maternity leave etc) would, I suspect, mean that many Europeans probably prefer their position vs the USA's, even in view of their relative decadence.

3) Agree, however bi-partisanship could be labelled an idealist view of the state of the US govt with Trump running things; nothing about his time in power - and now out of power - appears bi-partisan, which again raises the question of whether it’s one rule for the R's and another for the D's.

That said however, and again, Manchin’s position sums up my views for the reasons you’ve given.

[3rdside]

I don't think Carter was a great President, but Carter lost in '80 partly because Reagan illegally cut a deal so that Iran wouldn't release hostages before the election, which made Carter look bad.

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/01/ronald-r ... conspiracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_S ... ok%20place.

Exactly. Literally negotiating with terrorists. I thought that was unAmerican. Also, who built up Osama Bin Laden's terrorist organization? The Reagan admin. Who started the tax reductions for the 1% and corporations? Reagan.

Is this a big deal? Don't politicians always play politics?

I do think it's a little uncomfortable and would prefer they hadn't done it, but if one has an election to win...

That said, if this uncomfortable incident lead to the Gingrich-ification of USA politics (and I feel like you can make that link) then it was definitely the wrong thing to do - that guy has a lot to answer for.

[virtual9mm]

I see our country in a funk with no direction, just fighting.

I see the infrastructure spending as an investment in America, not just spending money to spend money.

I see our debt as a major bad thing and no one in Washington is serious about doing anything about it.

Uncommon common sense.

3rdside, good instincts, but why bother with Heritage on domestic policy? Although Bruce Klinger and the like are good foreign policy guys.

[3rdside]

You mean Hulsman?

[Indy]

Trump is launching a social media platform named Truth. If this was a plot line on Veep it would have been thought too unbelievable.

[In2ition]

When I saw that, I thought you would have some thoughts on the name, haha.

Kind of like the recent ‘Veep-like’ Nasa video with paid child actors?

We live in a bizarro world.

[Indy]

??

[In2ition]

What's your question, Indy?

[Indy]

I have no idea what you are talking about

[In2ition]

[Indy]

A PSA about NASA? I don't get it.

[In2ition]

I think it was created to make her look more relatable and human, but it kind of did the opposite, because it was weird. Like she had no idea how to act or talk to kids.