Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[SunsRIt]

Fischer didn't just make up "any center"--that's what his sources are saying.

As others have said…his source is “league figures” making assumptions on the suns. You’re taking that and turning it into a fact that the suns wouldn’t pay Giannis, Embiid, or Jokic. I know you’re just trying to paint them as incompetent because they won’t pay your boy Ayton, but that’s a major stretch.

Those 3 you mentioned transcend position…they are just superstars, their position doesn’t matter. Ayton is not that, not close.

I’m pretty sure he is closer than you give him credit for. The guy is still only 23.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Randle can play really dumb and take bad shots and his defense isn't exactly his calling card. He's also ball dominant which is why things went sideways when the Knicks tried to work in Kemba and Fournier who also need the ball. In 20-21 when he was All-NBA, he was the only offensive threat and essentially played ISO ball all year.

I wouldn’t be thrilled about Randle though. I’d rather keep the 6th pick. I know it feels like we’d need someone to contribute right away, but I’m not sure that’s true. I think we can be patient. Turner helps offset the loss of Ayton and we’d still have a lot of contracts to move and add another piece. It would be kinda nice to add another young cheap rookie to the core.

I think Randle can be salvaged with the Suns and Monty and he fits a lot of what the Suns try to do offensively, but I'll save those takes for a time when they're applicable.

[Split T]

Fischer didn't just make up "any center"--that's what his sources are saying.

As others have said…his source is “league figures” making assumptions on the suns. You’re taking that and turning it into a fact that the suns wouldn’t pay Giannis, Embiid, or Jokic. I know you’re just trying to paint them as incompetent because they won’t pay your boy Ayton, but that’s a major stretch.

Those 3 you mentioned transcend position…they are just superstars, their position doesn’t matter. Ayton is not that, not close.

I’m pretty sure he is closer than you give him credit for. The guy is still only 23.

He’s certainly a good nba player…but to me there’s a huge gulf between a player that can create offense and one that can’t. Ayton is a dependent offensive player and I haven’t seen any reason to think that’s going to change.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Fischer didn't just make up "any center"--that's what his sources are saying.

As others have said…his source is “league figures” making assumptions on the suns. You’re taking that and turning it into a fact that the suns wouldn’t pay Giannis, Embiid, or Jokic. I know you’re just trying to paint them as incompetent because they won’t pay your boy Ayton, but that’s a major stretch.

Those 3 you mentioned transcend position…they are just superstars, their position doesn’t matter. Ayton is not that, not close.

I’m pretty sure he is closer than you give him credit for. The guy is still only 23.

He's really not. Those guys are superstars who're relentless workers with high level basketball IQ's. Ayton hasn't shown much of either trait after 4 seasons in the league.

He's closer to the middle of the pack than the top of the mountain at his position.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Randle can play really dumb and take bad shots and his defense isn't exactly his calling card. He's also ball dominant which is why things went sideways when the Knicks tried to work in Kemba and Fournier who also need the ball. In 20-21 when he was All-NBA, he was the only offensive threat and essentially played ISO ball all year.

Hard pass on them especially Randle. A loser with a bad attitude

I wouldn’t be thrilled about Randle though. I’d rather keep the 6th pick. I know it feels like we’d need someone to contribute right away, but I’m not sure that’s true. I think we can be patient. Turner helps offset the loss of Ayton and we’d still have a lot of contracts to move and add another piece. It would be kinda nice to add another young cheap rookie to the core.

I think Randle can be salvaged with the Suns and Monty and he fits a lot of what the Suns try to do offensively, but I'll save those takes for a time when they're applicable.

[JeremyG]

The main culprit here is Ayton’s maturity and consistency for a player who wants to be maxxed. History tells us he’s unlikely to change. Even people like Kyrie can reflect back and recognize how their personality cost championships. What he isn’t aware of that his current behavior continues to cost the teams he plays for.
Suns can only have so many max players, to win a championship Ayton may not be that guy. I’m ok with flipping him for a good Player + a lottery pick (Turner and sixth / Simons and 7th). I’m also ok with signing him to trade later.

If he would have stepped up to just kind of slow down Giannis last year, he would already be maxed. I am sure he doesn't see that.

Bridges let Middleton score at will and yet he got paid. In fact, that may have been the biggest difference in the series (40 points in the momentum-swinging Game 4). Without Middleton, the Bucks were eliminated in the second round.

[Split T]

The main culprit here is Ayton’s maturity and consistency for a player who wants to be maxxed. History tells us he’s unlikely to change. Even people like Kyrie can reflect back and recognize how their personality cost championships. What he isn’t aware of that his current behavior continues to cost the teams he plays for.
Suns can only have so many max players, to win a championship Ayton may not be that guy. I’m ok with flipping him for a good Player + a lottery pick (Turner and sixth / Simons and 7th). I’m also ok with signing him to trade later.

If he would have stepped up to just kind of slow down Giannis last year, he would already be maxed. I am sure he doesn't see that.

Bridges let Middleton score at will and yet he got paid. In fact, that may have been the biggest difference in the series (40 points in the momentum-swinging Game 4). Without Middleton, the Bucks were eliminated in the second round.

The suns would gladly have signed Ayton to a 4/90 deal like bridges got

[JeremyG]

The main culprit here is Ayton’s maturity and consistency for a player who wants to be maxxed. History tells us he’s unlikely to change. Even people like Kyrie can reflect back and recognize how their personality cost championships. What he isn’t aware of that his current behavior continues to cost the teams he plays for.
Suns can only have so many max players, to win a championship Ayton may not be that guy. I’m ok with flipping him for a good Player + a lottery pick (Turner and sixth / Simons and 7th). I’m also ok with signing him to trade later.

If he would have stepped up to just kind of slow down Giannis last year, he would already be maxed. I am sure he doesn't see that.

Bridges let Middleton score at will and yet he got paid. In fact, that may have been the biggest difference in the series (40 points in the momentum-swinging Game 4). Without Middleton, the Bucks were eliminated in the second round.

The suns would gladly have signed Ayton to a 4/90 deal like bridges got

That's not even close to fair market value for Ayton, so what's your point? But setting that aside, where's your proof? All I've seen is that they didn't offer him any contract extension at all, and that they did not want to sign him long-term (4 years). So I actually doubt they would have gladly signed him to that deal.

[Indy]

Fischer didn't just make up "any center"--that's what his sources are saying.

As others have said…his source is “league figures” making assumptions on the suns. You’re taking that and turning it into a fact that the suns wouldn’t pay Giannis, Embiid, or Jokic. I know you’re just trying to paint them as incompetent because they won’t pay your boy Ayton, but that’s a major stretch.

Those 3 you mentioned transcend position…they are just superstars, their position doesn’t matter. Ayton is not that, not close.

I’m pretty sure he is closer than you give him credit for. The guy is still only 23.

Jokic is 26 and was an MVP the last 2 years and has been an all-star since 23.
Embiid is 27 and been an all-star since 23 and has been the best player on playoff teams since 23.
Giannis is 27 and been an all-star since 22, DPOY, 2xMVP, Finals MVP.

[Indy]

The main culprit here is Ayton’s maturity and consistency for a player who wants to be maxxed. History tells us he’s unlikely to change. Even people like Kyrie can reflect back and recognize how their personality cost championships. What he isn’t aware of that his current behavior continues to cost the teams he plays for.
Suns can only have so many max players, to win a championship Ayton may not be that guy. I’m ok with flipping him for a good Player + a lottery pick (Turner and sixth / Simons and 7th). I’m also ok with signing him to trade later.

If he would have stepped up to just kind of slow down Giannis last year, he would already be maxed. I am sure he doesn't see that.

Bridges let Middleton score at will and yet he got paid. In fact, that may have been the biggest difference in the series (40 points in the momentum-swinging Game 4). Without Middleton, the Bucks were eliminated in the second round.

The suns would gladly have signed Ayton to a 4/90 deal like bridges got

That's not even close to fair market value for Ayton, so what's your point? But setting that aside, where's your proof? All I've seen is that they didn't offer him any contract extension at all, and that they did not want to sign him long-term (4 years). So I actually doubt they would have gladly signed him to that deal.

Didn't Jones say publicly they they didn't want to have 2 designated max rookie extensions on the team because it limits what they can do? He never said they weren't willing to do something less. It was Ayton's camp that said it was the full max or nothing.

[JeremyG]

If he would have stepped up to just kind of slow down Giannis last year, he would already be maxed. I am sure he doesn't see that.

Bridges let Middleton score at will and yet he got paid. In fact, that may have been the biggest difference in the series (40 points in the momentum-swinging Game 4). Without Middleton, the Bucks were eliminated in the second round.

The suns would gladly have signed Ayton to a 4/90 deal like bridges got

That's not even close to fair market value for Ayton, so what's your point? But setting that aside, where's your proof? All I've seen is that they didn't offer him any contract extension at all, and that they did not want to sign him long-term (4 years). So I actually doubt they would have gladly signed him to that deal.

Didn't Jones say publicly they they didn't want to have 2 designated max rookie extensions on the team because it limits what they can do? He never said they weren't willing to do something less. It was Ayton's camp that said it was the full max or nothing.

I don't remember him saying that. I looked it up and apparently 3 or 4 years was mentioned by the Suns but never actually offered: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/324 ... ources-say Just going off of my memory, I thought it was only 2 or 3 years that they discussed.

[Indy]

And again, it was Duffy that said full max or nothing.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... ones-says/

Jones explained the situation to Amick:

"We know it's important to us; it's important to him that we continue to progress and we continue to develop and we win [a title]. So when we talked about a focus this offseason, it was to continue to build this team. So for us, unfortunately, we are where we are [with Ayton]. No agreement. We didn't have real negotiations.

"You talk about conversations [with Ayton's representatives] — it was five year, max extension like the other peers, the other former No. 1 picks, and that's where the conversation started and ended. Anything less than a five-year max wasn't something to be considered — not something to talk about. It's evident. They talk about us having discussions on a three-year, four-year max [deals]. Those are real."

[Superbone]

Would you consider Russell as a 3rd guard?

What if Minny said we could have KAT if we also took Russell?

I believe Ayton, Saric, Payne, Shamet, Crowder, and Craig for KAT/Russell would work. Let’s say we add 2 1sts or something.

Paul/Booker/Bridges/CamJ/KAT

Russell would be our only bench guy left haha. Probably doesn’t make sense.

Would we have to add blue to our jersey and a K?

[Drewsprocket]

People defending Ayton here like he didn’t come out saying he stays up late playing video games on game nights or never refused to sub into a playoff game all in the space of weeks before his RFA.

[Split T]

The main culprit here is Ayton’s maturity and consistency for a player who wants to be maxxed. History tells us he’s unlikely to change. Even people like Kyrie can reflect back and recognize how their personality cost championships. What he isn’t aware of that his current behavior continues to cost the teams he plays for.
Suns can only have so many max players, to win a championship Ayton may not be that guy. I’m ok with flipping him for a good Player + a lottery pick (Turner and sixth / Simons and 7th). I’m also ok with signing him to trade later.

If he would have stepped up to just kind of slow down Giannis last year, he would already be maxed. I am sure he doesn't see that.

Bridges let Middleton score at will and yet he got paid. In fact, that may have been the biggest difference in the series (40 points in the momentum-swinging Game 4). Without Middleton, the Bucks were eliminated in the second round.

The suns would gladly have signed Ayton to a 4/90 deal like bridges got

That's not even close to fair market value for Ayton, so what's your point? But setting that aside, where's your proof? All I've seen is that they didn't offer him any contract extension at all, and that they did not want to sign him long-term (4 years). So I actually doubt they would have gladly signed him to that deal.

Yes I realize it’s not his market value…but do you realize then why your argument saying Bridges got paid doesn’t make sense? Simply Bridges was willing to accept what the suns were willing to offer. You can’t hold Ayton and Bridges to the same standard when one wants 170 million and the other accepted 90 million.

[Indy]

If he would have stepped up to just kind of slow down Giannis last year, he would already be maxed. I am sure he doesn't see that.

Bridges let Middleton score at will and yet he got paid. In fact, that may have been the biggest difference in the series (40 points in the momentum-swinging Game 4). Without Middleton, the Bucks were eliminated in the second round.

The suns would gladly have signed Ayton to a 4/90 deal like bridges got

That's not even close to fair market value for Ayton, so what's your point? But setting that aside, where's your proof? All I've seen is that they didn't offer him any contract extension at all, and that they did not want to sign him long-term (4 years). So I actually doubt they would have gladly signed him to that deal.

Yes I realize it’s not his market value…but do you realize then why your argument saying Bridges got paid doesn’t make sense? Simply Bridges was willing to accept what the suns were willing to offer. You can’t hold Ayton and Bridges to the same standard when one wants 170 million and the other accepted 90 million.

And both of their flaws in full display, I would take Mikal @90M over Ayton @170M every fucking day. No question. You can't convince me there is a world where Ayton is worth two Mikals.

[Shabazz]

[Shabazz]

[Indy]

[Indy]