Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[SunsRIt]

One more thing, shooting percentage. This year Ayton shot .642. Cam Johnson was our 3-point percentage leader and shot .425(4th in the league). On 100 shots Ayton scored 128.4 points. Cam Johnson scored 127.5. No other Suns player was close to .400 3-point shooting percentage. Booker was next at .383. What I’m saying is on 100 shots Ayton beats Johnson 128.4-127.5. Why isn’t Ayton shooting more when he is the most efficient shooter on the team? And just for comparison Amare’s best shooting year was 2007 with .590, while Malone’s was .562 in 1990, attacking the rim or not.

Just for fun take a look at Shaq’s shooting percentage. His final year in the league he shot .667. Prior to that his best was .609.

[LazarusLong]

Do you know the difference between a self created shot and an assisted one? And why the self created ones are much more valuable?


Of course the ideal would be to get Ayton more shots, it’s not as simple as just doing it though. The defense is trying to stop that specific thing.

Like Ayton said, he can’t even pass himself the ball. He isn’t being used enough. He gets most of his points in the first quarter when they feed him the ball. Does the opposing coach all of a sudden change tactics in the 2nd-4th quarters? Surely they study enough film to know what to expect in the first. Why wouldn’t you utilize the same defensive strategies early then? I think the Suns go to him early to “get him going” and then Monte(or Paul) goes away from him for whatever reason.

As far as the difference between self-created shots and assisted ones goes I don’t think it matters. Karl Malone and Amare Stoudemire prove that point. Malone was assisted by John Stockton, who happens to be the NBAs all-time assist leader, and it’s not even close. Why? Because he fed Malone incessantly. The same goes for Amare, he was fed by the NBA assist leader(for those years), Steve Nash, during their years together. Nash wasn’t the league MVP those years by himself. Amare had a whole lot to do with it.

I know this sounds crazy, but Ayton and Amare are becoming very similar. When they came into the league neither had a midrange game, but both developed them. If Ayton misses from 15 feet and in lately I am surprised. The same went for Amare. Sure, Ayton is more of finesse player and Amare was all power around the hoop, but both get the job done and got better as time went on. Rebounding is another story, Ayton is a much better rebounder.

Amare had the best hands in the NBA and was a top finisher.

"Rebounding is another story, Ayton is a much better rebounder."

Maybe yes, and maybe no ... remember Shawn Marion was a teammate of Amare's, and was fairly decent at working the boards.
There's nobody like Matrix on the current version of the Suns.

[Indy]

I just don't get player-stan culture. I just want our team to win a fucking ring. I don't care if that means we have to trade Booker to make it happen, who is clearly our best player (and might be the best ever Sun). I assumed that is what everyone here wanted.

But instead I keep reading how we need to change the entire identity of the team and find a way to get Ayton 20 shots a game. Guess what... he has that chance every fucking game. We run DHOs over and over and over, and each one has an option for him to go to the hoop. Remember "I've been waiting for 3 god damn years for that!"??? Yeah.

He also can go get an o-board and put up the shot. It feels like too often he passes out in that situation. Go make something happen! Instead he needs to be fed in a certain way, while in a certain mood, and against certain players, for him to dominate.

Be wary any time a person has to tattoo on himself how great he is.

[JeremyG]

I just don't get player-stan culture. I just want our team to win a fucking ring. I don't care if that means we have to trade Booker to make it happen, who is clearly our best player (and might be the best ever Sun). I assumed that is what everyone here wanted.

But instead I keep reading how we need to change the entire identity of the team and find a way to get Ayton 20 shots a game.

Because that would have been the best way to get out of the second round and have a chance at that ring...

Suns record when Ayton gets 17 or more FGA:

Regular season: 9-1
Playoffs: 2-0

[TOO]

Still, he relies on other people to get him those shots, he is not a shot creator, that is what this team is lacking.

[TOO]

I just don't get player-stan culture. I just want our team to win a fucking ring. I don't care if that means we have to trade Booker to make it happen, who is clearly our best player (and might be the best ever Sun). I assumed that is what everyone here wanted.

But instead I keep reading how we need to change the entire identity of the team and find a way to get Ayton 20 shots a game. Guess what... he has that chance every fucking game. We run DHOs over and over and over, and each one has an option for him to go to the hoop. Remember "I've been waiting for 3 god damn years for that!"??? Yeah.

He also can go get an o-board and put up the shot. It feels like too often he passes out in that situation. Go make something happen! Instead he needs to be fed in a certain way, while in a certain mood, and against certain players, for him to dominate.

Be wary any time a person has to tattoo on himself how great he is.

I loathe Lebron, but if acquiring him meant we'd win the title next year, i'd make that trade 10 outta 10 times. I have no loyalty to any of these players, I root for the team.

[SunsRIt]

Still, he relies on other people to get him those shots, he is not a shot creator, that is what this team is lacking.

That’s what point guards, shooting guards and small forwards are for. Not centers.

[LazarusLong]

I just don't get player-stan culture. I just want our team to win a fucking ring. I don't care if that means we have to trade Booker to make it happen, who is clearly our best player (and might be the best ever Sun). I assumed that is what everyone here wanted.

But instead I keep reading how we need to change the entire identity of the team and find a way to get Ayton 20 shots a game. Guess what... he has that chance every fucking game. We run DHOs over and over and over, and each one has an option for him to go to the hoop. Remember "I've been waiting for 3 god damn years for that!"??? Yeah.

He also can go get an o-board and put up the shot. It feels like too often he passes out in that situation. Go make something happen! Instead he needs to be fed in a certain way, while in a certain mood, and against certain players, for him to dominate.

Be wary any time a person has to tattoo on himself how great he is.

He also can go get an o-board and put up the shot. It feels like too often he passes out in that situation. Go make something happen! Instead he needs to be fed in a certain way, while in a certain mood, and against certain players, for him to dominate.

Gospel.

[JeremyG]

Suns record when Ayton gets 13 or more FGA:

Regular season: 21-3 (.875)
Playoffs: 5-2 (.714)

Suns record when Ayton gets 12 or fewer FGA:

Regular season: 25-9 (.735)
Playoffs: 2-4 (.333)

Maybe there's a reason why we think it's important to get him more shots...

[TOO]

Still, he relies on other people to get him those shots, he is not a shot creator, that is what this team is lacking.

That’s what point guards, shooting guards and small forwards are for. Not centers.

Good grief.

[Superbone]

Still, he relies on other people to get him those shots, he is not a shot creator, that is what this team is lacking.

That’s what point guards, shooting guards and small forwards are for. Not centers.

Tell that to Embiid, Jokic, and Giannis.

[Indy]

Still, he relies on other people to get him those shots, he is not a shot creator, that is what this team is lacking.

That’s what point guards, shooting guards and small forwards are for. Not centers.

Tell that to Embiid, Jokic, and Giannis.

Giannis is a PF.

[Indy]

I just don't get player-stan culture. I just want our team to win a fucking ring. I don't care if that means we have to trade Booker to make it happen, who is clearly our best player (and might be the best ever Sun). I assumed that is what everyone here wanted.

But instead I keep reading how we need to change the entire identity of the team and find a way to get Ayton 20 shots a game.

Because that would have been the best way to get out of the second round and have a chance at that ring...

Suns record when Ayton gets 17 or more FGA:

Regular season: 9-1
Playoffs: 2-0

Another way to read this is, there were only 12 games all season and playoffs in which Ayton could regularly seal his man in the flow of the offense.

[JeremyG]

Still, he relies on other people to get him those shots, he is not a shot creator, that is what this team is lacking.

That’s what point guards, shooting guards and small forwards are for. Not centers.

Tell that to Embiid, Jokic, and Giannis.

Suns players with a better unassisted percentage than Ayton in the playoffs (min. 8 minutes per game):

Paul
Booker
Payne

[JeremyG]

I just don't get player-stan culture. I just want our team to win a fucking ring. I don't care if that means we have to trade Booker to make it happen, who is clearly our best player (and might be the best ever Sun). I assumed that is what everyone here wanted.

But instead I keep reading how we need to change the entire identity of the team and find a way to get Ayton 20 shots a game.

Because that would have been the best way to get out of the second round and have a chance at that ring...

Suns record when Ayton gets 17 or more FGA:

Regular season: 9-1
Playoffs: 2-0

Another way to read this is, there were only 12 games all season and playoffs in which Ayton could regularly seal his man in the flow of the offense.

Yeah, if you didn't watch the games and see how many times he had great position, called for the ball, and got ignored.

[Drewsprocket]

Look had CP3 been healthy, Ayton would have had better looks and teams would not have been able to blitz Booker to great affect in the mavs series.
The offense couldn’t adjust on the floor. Ayton bitched about not being spoon fed, the rest of the team couldn’t get its shit together either. Cam Payne was a total no show too.
I don’t hold it against Ayton for not getting his number of pick and rolls, but I do think he laid a fucking egg being soft as shit half the time. He didn’t dominAyt on the boards or fight for better positioning. He bitched to his coach and sulked.
If any player had the rights to bitch over his team it’s Book having endured years of bullshit teammates.

[Indy]

I just don't get player-stan culture. I just want our team to win a fucking ring. I don't care if that means we have to trade Booker to make it happen, who is clearly our best player (and might be the best ever Sun). I assumed that is what everyone here wanted.

But instead I keep reading how we need to change the entire identity of the team and find a way to get Ayton 20 shots a game.

Because that would have been the best way to get out of the second round and have a chance at that ring...

Suns record when Ayton gets 17 or more FGA:

Regular season: 9-1
Playoffs: 2-0

Another way to read this is, there were only 12 games all season and playoffs in which Ayton could regularly seal his man in the flow of the offense.

Yeah, if you didn't watch the games and see how many times he had great position, called for the ball, and got ignored.

Interesting that you NEVER hear other players around the league (or even former recent players) say this about him. And the best analysts around don't talk about that either. I haven't heard a single analyst (not talking head like Steven A) say that Ayton was doing everything he could do but the Suns kept looking off him. He just isn't that guy.

[Indy]

Look had CP3 been healthy, Ayton would have had better looks and teams would not have been able to blitz Booker to great affect in the mavs series.
The offense couldn’t adjust on the floor. Ayton bitched about not being spoon fed, the rest of the team couldn’t get its shit together either. Cam Payne was a total no show too.
I don’t hold it against Ayton for not getting his number of pick and rolls, but I do think he laid a fucking egg being soft as shit half the time. He didn’t dominAyt on the boards or fight for better positioning. He bitched to his coach and sulked.
If any player had the rights to bitch over his team it’s Book having endured years of bullshit teammates.

Exactly. I do not blame our early exit on Ayton. Our entire team sucked, regardless if they were injured. But I only saw one person outwardly quit.

[The Bobster]

Look had CP3 been healthy, Ayton would have had better looks and teams would not have been able to blitz Booker to great affect in the mavs series.
The offense couldn’t adjust on the floor. Ayton bitched about not being spoon fed, the rest of the team couldn’t get its shit together either. Cam Payne was a total no show too.
I don’t hold it against Ayton for not getting his number of pick and rolls, but I do think he laid a fucking egg being soft as shit half the time. He didn’t dominAyt on the boards or fight for better positioning. He bitched to his coach and sulked.
If any player had the rights to bitch over his team it’s Book having endured years of bullshit teammates.

Exactly. I do not blame our early exit on Ayton. Our entire team sucked, regardless if they were injured. But I only saw one person outwardly quit.

Oh, I think they all pretty much quit that last game. Ayton's the one whose frustration boiled over, but the Revenge Tour Bus had its engine seize prior to game 7.

[JeremyG]

Man this is so good and right on point: