Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[JeremyG]

James Harden? That would be a lot of guards in our backcourt. I don't know how I feel about that.

No. Giannis Antetokounmpo.

You would turn down Luka? Tatum? Ja?

I can't stand Luka. I wouldn't trade anyone for him.

Ja Morant? His team is better when he doesn't play.

Trading Ayton for Tatum may not be a horrible trade, I just personally wouldn't do it. I would prefer a big man in return. I would take Embiid if I could know he would stay healthy.

I'm coming from a position of thinking that Ayton is totally worth the money he will make, and I see no reason to move him.

Embiid and Tatum are light years ahead of Ayton (even ahead of Booker). Like you probably couldn't get either for Booker and Ayton unless they told the Celts/76ers they were leaving and they had to trade them.

I never said you could. The question was who I personally would trade him for. But there are a bunch of Suns fans out there talking about trading for Embiid without even giving up Booker, lol.

[JeremyG]

James Harden? That would be a lot of guards in our backcourt. I don't know how I feel about that.

No. Giannis Antetokounmpo.

You would turn down Luka? Tatum? Ja?

I can't stand Luka. I wouldn't trade anyone for him.

Ja Morant? His team is better when he doesn't play.

Trading Ayton for Tatum may not be a horrible trade, I just personally wouldn't do it. I would prefer a big man in return. I would take Embiid if I could know he would stay healthy.

I'm coming from a position of thinking that Ayton is totally worth the money he will make, and I see no reason to move him.

You agree that Ayton has weaknesses, right? What do you see as his weaknesses? What do you envision from him three years from now? Do you think he will be worth the Super Max by his next contract after this next one?

I think Bobster did a good job summarizing. I would add that he doesn't always close out as tight as he could or contest as well as he could when he's guarding a three point shooter, even though he clearly has the length.

I think he will be worth the Super Max if he becomes eligible for it (DPOY, MVP, or All-NBA). Three years from now he should be a consistent All-Star (he'll make an All-Star team next season if the Suns get rid of him). His injury this season is the only thing that shut off the All-Star talk for him in January. If he's on a team that will utilize him offensively, he will average well over 20 ppg.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

[JeremyG]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

Lol, he's a very good passer and can certainly dribble fine. His problem is being able to hold onto the ball while dribbling in traffic or catching in traffic--that's one weakness that wasn't mentioned.

[The Bobster]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

I wouldn't say he can't pass, he's not a playmaker. He's certainly not a black hole when you pass him the ball though.

And he's shown at times that he can face and drive to the basket, but it's like his 3-point shooting - you see signs of it very rarely.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

Lol, he's a very good passer and can certainly dribble fine. His problem is being able to hold onto the ball while dribbling in traffic or catching in traffic--that's one weakness that wasn't mentioned.

That's kind of a problem since there are opposing defenses in the NBA. He can't take more than one dribble at the rim at this point.

He's a very good passer in the sense that he knows how to pass it to the guy when it's been schemed for him to do it. He cannot make a play with a pass or pass a guy open at this point.

[The Bobster]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

Lol, he's a very good passer and can certainly dribble fine. His problem is being able to hold onto the ball while dribbling in traffic or catching in traffic--that's one weakness that wasn't mentioned.

That's kind of a problem since there are opposing defenses in the NBA. He can't take more than one dribble at the rim at this point.

He's a very good passer in the sense that he knows how to pass it to the guy when it's been schemed for him to do it. He cannot make a play with a pass or pass a guy open at this point.

No, he's not Nikola Jokić, Bill Walton or Alvan Adams. You aren't going to run the offense using him as a passer.

So I guess he's not a perfect player. He's got flaws. I just think some people are overly-critical of the things he doesn't do particularly well. overlooking a lot of things really, really well.

[Superbone]

No. Giannis Antetokounmpo.

You would turn down Luka? Tatum? Ja?

I can't stand Luka. I wouldn't trade anyone for him.

Ja Morant? His team is better when he doesn't play.

Trading Ayton for Tatum may not be a horrible trade, I just personally wouldn't do it. I would prefer a big man in return. I would take Embiid if I could know he would stay healthy.

I'm coming from a position of thinking that Ayton is totally worth the money he will make, and I see no reason to move him.

You agree that Ayton has weaknesses, right? What do you see as his weaknesses? What do you envision from him three years from now? Do you think he will be worth the Super Max by his next contract after this next one?

I think Bobster did a good job summarizing. I would add that he doesn't always close out as tight as he could or contest as well as he could when he's guarding a three point shooter, even though he clearly has the length.

I think he will be worth the Super Max if he becomes eligible for it (DPOY, MVP, or All-NBA). Three years from now he should be a consistent All-Star (he'll make an All-Star team next season if the Suns get rid of him). His injury this season is the only thing that shut off the All-Star talk for him in January. If he's on a team that will utilize him offensively, he will average well over 20 ppg.

You really don't think he can make the all-star team if he remains on the Suns? As in the Suns are holding him back? You don't think he can make another step in the right direction under Williams? Hasn't he improved each season?

[Superbone]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

Lol, he's a very good passer and can certainly dribble fine. His problem is being able to hold onto the ball while dribbling in traffic or catching in traffic--that's one weakness that wasn't mentioned.

That's kind of a problem since there are opposing defenses in the NBA. He can't take more than one dribble at the rim at this point.

He's a very good passer in the sense that he knows how to pass it to the guy when it's been schemed for him to do it. He cannot make a play with a pass or pass a guy open at this point.

I don't think he should be taking a dribble at the rim. Keep it up high and throw it down through contact. That is a current weakness.

[Superbone]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

Lol, he's a very good passer and can certainly dribble fine. His problem is being able to hold onto the ball while dribbling in traffic or catching in traffic--that's one weakness that wasn't mentioned.

That's kind of a problem since there are opposing defenses in the NBA. He can't take more than one dribble at the rim at this point.

He's a very good passer in the sense that he knows how to pass it to the guy when it's been schemed for him to do it. He cannot make a play with a pass or pass a guy open at this point.

No, he's not Nikola Jokić, Bill Walton or Alvan Adams. You aren't going to run the offense using him as a passer.

So I guess he's not a perfect player. He's got flaws. I just think some people are overly-critical of the things he doesn't do particularly well. overlooking a lot of things really, really well.

You don't think people are being overly critical based on what salary he thinks he deserves? Would you pay him the max without reservation if you were the owner and had to balance salaries and performance?

[Indy]

Is this your guess, or something you confirmed? Because nobody thinks of Russell as a star.

That was my attempt at a joke directed towards Flex.

Ah. I am with you there.

[Indy]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

Lol, he's a very good passer and can certainly dribble fine. His problem is being able to hold onto the ball while dribbling in traffic or catching in traffic--that's one weakness that wasn't mentioned.

That's kind of a problem since there are opposing defenses in the NBA. He can't take more than one dribble at the rim at this point.

He's a very good passer in the sense that he knows how to pass it to the guy when it's been schemed for him to do it. He cannot make a play with a pass or pass a guy open at this point.

I don't think he should be taking a dribble at the rim. Keep it up high and throw it down through contact. That is a current weakness.

I think he means being able to take the ball on that DHO and dribble towards the basket without a guy taking it from him. I don't think anyone wishes he dribbled more in the restricted area.

[Indy]

You would turn down Luka? Tatum? Ja?

I can't stand Luka. I wouldn't trade anyone for him.

Ja Morant? His team is better when he doesn't play.

Trading Ayton for Tatum may not be a horrible trade, I just personally wouldn't do it. I would prefer a big man in return. I would take Embiid if I could know he would stay healthy.

I'm coming from a position of thinking that Ayton is totally worth the money he will make, and I see no reason to move him.

You agree that Ayton has weaknesses, right? What do you see as his weaknesses? What do you envision from him three years from now? Do you think he will be worth the Super Max by his next contract after this next one?

I think Bobster did a good job summarizing. I would add that he doesn't always close out as tight as he could or contest as well as he could when he's guarding a three point shooter, even though he clearly has the length.

I think he will be worth the Super Max if he becomes eligible for it (DPOY, MVP, or All-NBA). Three years from now he should be a consistent All-Star (he'll make an All-Star team next season if the Suns get rid of him). His injury this season is the only thing that shut off the All-Star talk for him in January. If he's on a team that will utilize him offensively, he will average well over 20 ppg.

You really don't think he can make the all-star team if he remains on the Suns? As in the Suns are holding him back? You don't think he can make another step in the right direction under Williams? Hasn't he improved each season?

I am pretty sure Jeremy said Williams hates Ayton.

[The Bobster]

Interesting who they retroactively pick for the 2021 Western Conference Finals MVP.....

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... ys-had-it/

[Indy]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

Lol, he's a very good passer and can certainly dribble fine. His problem is being able to hold onto the ball while dribbling in traffic or catching in traffic--that's one weakness that wasn't mentioned.

That's kind of a problem since there are opposing defenses in the NBA. He can't take more than one dribble at the rim at this point.

He's a very good passer in the sense that he knows how to pass it to the guy when it's been schemed for him to do it. He cannot make a play with a pass or pass a guy open at this point.

No, he's not Nikola Jokić, Bill Walton or Alvan Adams. You aren't going to run the offense using him as a passer.

So I guess he's not a perfect player. He's got flaws. I just think some people are overly-critical of the things he doesn't do particularly well. overlooking a lot of things really, really well.

Is he the best player on a championship team? Is he the 2nd best player on a championship team? If you don't feel one of those can be true, you can't max him and keep him on your team for more than 1 year or so.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Lofty expectations for a guy who can't really pass or dribble.

Lol, he's a very good passer and can certainly dribble fine. His problem is being able to hold onto the ball while dribbling in traffic or catching in traffic--that's one weakness that wasn't mentioned.

That's kind of a problem since there are opposing defenses in the NBA. He can't take more than one dribble at the rim at this point.

He's a very good passer in the sense that he knows how to pass it to the guy when it's been schemed for him to do it. He cannot make a play with a pass or pass a guy open at this point.

No, he's not Nikola Jokić, Bill Walton or Alvan Adams. You aren't going to run the offense using him as a passer.

So I guess he's not a perfect player. He's got flaws. I just think some people are overly-critical of the things he doesn't do particularly well. overlooking a lot of things really, really well.

You don't think people are being overly critical based on what salary he thinks he deserves? Would you pay him the max without reservation if you were the owner and had to balance salaries and performance?

We're a broken record at this point. Too much talk about what he can and can't do right now is overshadowing his inflated sense of value.

He's too incomplete of a player to warrant the contract he wants. It's disappointing because I want him on the Suns, but I also understand who he's proven to be as a player in his four seasons and I'm not going to get caught up in the dangling carrot of "what ifs".

[Indy]

Interesting who they retroactively pick for the 2021 Western Conference Finals MVP.....

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... ys-had-it/

He was our MVP in that series. The entire team said so. Book led us in scoring but broke his nose and his efficiency took a hit. Paul was out with Covid. Ayton played his game for the entire series and was pretty consistent. Nothing too high, nothing too low (except Game 5).

[Indy]

Lol, he's a very good passer and can certainly dribble fine. His problem is being able to hold onto the ball while dribbling in traffic or catching in traffic--that's one weakness that wasn't mentioned.

That's kind of a problem since there are opposing defenses in the NBA. He can't take more than one dribble at the rim at this point.

He's a very good passer in the sense that he knows how to pass it to the guy when it's been schemed for him to do it. He cannot make a play with a pass or pass a guy open at this point.

No, he's not Nikola Jokić, Bill Walton or Alvan Adams. You aren't going to run the offense using him as a passer.

So I guess he's not a perfect player. He's got flaws. I just think some people are overly-critical of the things he doesn't do particularly well. overlooking a lot of things really, really well.

You don't think people are being overly critical based on what salary he thinks he deserves? Would you pay him the max without reservation if you were the owner and had to balance salaries and performance?

We're a broken record at this point. Too much talk about what he can and can't do right now is overshadowing his inflated sense of value.

He's too incomplete of a player to warrant the contract he wants. It's disappointing because I want him on the Suns, but I also understand who he's proven to be as a player in his four seasons and I'm not going to get caught up in the dangling carrot of "what ifs".

If he wanted the same contract as Mikal, everyone would want him on this team. Even a 4/100 would mean everyone would want him here.

[The Bobster]

Yeah, 4/100 just ain't gonna get it done. That would put him at the 50th highest player in the league, and he's going to get offered more money than that. 5/176 would put him in the top 20 in the league. And you have to assume that other players like Towns, Booker, Beal and Jokić will all sign for much more than that. Booker will probably be asking for 4/211, so if they want to keep a Finals team together for another couple of years, the checkbook had better be open.

[Indy]

Do you think he is a top 20 player in the league? Top 40? Top 50?