Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[JeremyG]

2021-22 Stats:

Points Per Touch:
Joel Embiid (MVP runner-up): 0.402
Deandre Ayton: 0.404

Points Per Frontcourt Touch:
Embiid: 0.573
Ayton: 0.726

Points Per Elbow Touch
Embiid: 0.754
Ayton: 0.809

Points Per Post Touch:
Embiid: 0.667
Ayton: 0.870

Points Per Paint Touch:
Embiid: 1.092
Ayton: 1.107

[TOO]

2021-22 Stats:

Points Per Touch:
Joel Embiid (MVP runner-up): 0.402
Deandre Ayton: 0.404

Points Per Frontcourt Touch:
Embiid: 0.573
Ayton: 0.726

Points Per Elbow Touch
Embiid: 0.754
Ayton: 0.809

Points Per Post Touch:
Embiid: 0.667
Ayton: 0.870

Points Per Paint Touch:
Embiid: 1.092
Ayton: 1.107

K, now do win shares.

[Indy]

Could you have picked a more different type of player to compare? And if Ayton could do what Embiid does, he would initiating our offense. I mean, Ayton doesn't even dribble.

[Indy]

I don't know if I have said this yet, but the last 12 months of basketball from Deandre Ayton has (probably) been the best 12 months of basketball by any center in Suns history.

[TOO]

I don't know if I have said this yet, but the last 12 months of basketball from Deandre Ayton has (probably) been the best 12 months of basketball by any center in Suns history.

Somewhere all star Shaq scoffs.

[JeremyG]

2021-22 Stats:

Points Per Touch:
Joel Embiid (MVP runner-up): 0.402
Deandre Ayton: 0.404

Points Per Frontcourt Touch:
Embiid: 0.573
Ayton: 0.726

Points Per Elbow Touch
Embiid: 0.754
Ayton: 0.809

Points Per Post Touch:
Embiid: 0.667
Ayton: 0.870

Points Per Paint Touch:
Embiid: 1.092
Ayton: 1.107

K, now do win shares.

Win shares per touch:

Embiid: 0.00232
Ayton: 0.00295
Booker: 0.00202
Paul: 0.00196

WS/48:

Embiid: 0.252
Ayton: 0.203
Paul: 0.210
Booker: 0.156

[Flagrant Fowl]

Could you have picked a more different type of player to compare? And if Ayton could do what Embiid does, he would initiating our offense. I mean, Ayton doesn't even dribble.

Putting aside his soft tendencies, Ayton would've had his 5-year max last summer if he could dribble and pass like Embiid.

[specialsauce]

I have said numerous times I don't want him gone. I would love to have him here on a contract that pays him around 25M/year. But he has said he only wants a max deal and doesn't care who gives it to him.

He’s going to get the max. So you either want him gone or you are willing to give it to him. You’re dancing instead of answering the question

[JeremyG]

Win shares per 82 games, without even factoring in minutes per game:

Paul: 11.9
Ayton: 10.3
Booker: 9.2

[TOO]

Cool, but he was worth 7.3 this season, same as Valanciunas, and below greats like Jalen Brunson. Embiid was at 12, your tiny stats can make people look a lot more productive than they really were. Embiid was light-years better than Ayton.

[TOO]

I do admire your steadfast Ayton defense though, keeps something going on in here.

[JeremyG]

Cool, but he was worth 7.3 this season, same as Valanciunas, and below greats like Jalen Brunson. Embiid was at 12, your tiny stats can make people look a lot more productive than they really were. Embiid was light-years better than Ayton.

But Booker's 7.6 (in 10 more games played) is worth a supermax extension?

2020-21 Win Shares:
Ayton: 8.4
Booker: 4.9

But no max extension last summer?

[TOO]

Cool, but he was worth 7.3 this season, same as Valanciunas, and below greats like Jalen Brunson. Embiid was at 12, your tiny stats can make people look a lot more productive than they really were. Embiid was light-years better than Ayton.

But Booker's 7.6 (in 10 more games played) is worth a supermax extension?

2020-21 Win Shares:
Ayton: 8.4
Booker: 4.9

But no max extension last summer?

For the record, Booker is absolutely not worth a super max to me. Max contracts are too prevalent in the NBA, with guys like JJJ getting at or around that figure. Booker is great, but he's not a superstar.

[The Bobster]

The super max should be for the MVP types like Jokić, Embiid, Giannis, etc.

Booker isn't at that level.

But he'll probably get it anyway.

[SunsRIt]

The super max should be for the MVP types like Jokić, Embiid, Giannis, etc.

Booker isn't at that level.

But he'll probably get it anyway.

Booker was first team all NBA. And 4th in MVP voting? I don’t think he’s a super max guy either, but where is the line?

[Split T]

Win shares are a pretty flawed stat…in fact their biggest weaknesses seem to be overrating non creating bigs and tough shot making perimeter players.

It can’t tell the difference between a wide open dunk that was created by someone else and an end of the shot clock bail out the offense shot created solely by the shooter.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

On DA, the telling stat for me...for FT attempts per game for the NBA this season, our starting center ranked...100!

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player ... -attempted

...that's just f'd up...
VT

[Split T]

Suns’ record in the postseason this year:

When Ayton scored 19+ points: 6-2
When Ayton scored 16 or fewer points: 1-4

So yes I think it would have been smart to get him more involved in the offense.

Against Dallas we were 2-1 when he played less than 25 minutes and 1-3 when he played more than 30, so I guess it would’ve been smart to play him less.

Nope, just get him more involved in the offense.

Funny how you want to punish him for scoring 20 points in 22 minutes in a 30-point blowout victory.

I wasn’t being serious…I just didn’t think your stat told the whole story either. It’s on Ayton as much as anyone to create his scoring opportunities.

Same stats for Paul…

Suns went 6-0 when he scored 19 or more
1-6 when he scored 17 or less

Paul can score whenever he wants.

Ayton can't pass himself the ball.

(Sorry, you set that up too well. )

I don’t think your response is as gotcha as you think. Part of Ayton’s problem is he can’t create himself and that makes it harder to get him scoring touches. He is dependent on Chris Paul…but doesn’t my stat show that the suns played better when Paul looked for his shot instead of looking for Ayton?

In reality it’s a much bigger picture. You can’t just take how many points they scored and say we’d be better off if we forced it more to Ayton. It could simply be that we won when Ayton played better and made his shots or was more aggressive. It says nothing about how many touches he got or what defense was played against him.

When it comes down to it, Ayton just isn’t a good fit here. He doesn’t seem happy to just play a role as a rim running big who gets the ball in the post when he seals his man or gets a mismatch. CP3 has made less talented bigs look very good doing that.

Now I don’t blame Ayton for wanting to be more, but he’s got to do it within the offense. I’m not interested in changing the offense to try and accommodate Ayton’s wants. We did that when we brought Shaq in and that was the 1 year in the Nash/Amare run that we didn’t even make the playoffs. It makes zero sense with CP3 as our pg.

If Ayton would just start attacking the basket off the dribble from the high post every now and then, he’d get his scoring opportunities. The one area I think the suns could have tried to use him more was in the short roll. There was a few times where we gave it to him and he made things happen. He’s just often too slow to make the play. He’ll catch and freeze…but when he’s caught and just gone, he showed me some stuff.

Truth is he’s just not a .5 guy unless he’s catching in the paint or is set from midrange. If he catches on the move outside of the paint, he doesn’t keep the ball moving and doesn’t attack. There’s a reason we kept bringing back a guy like Frank, that’s a role Frank shines in and I think Monty would like his big to be able to do that. They even specifically said they thought that’s what they were getting in Jalen. Thought he was a Jerami Grant like player.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Houston...3, 17, Wood for Deandre + tbd?

[specialsauce]

Hell no dude

Wood is a cancer and don’t nobody care about no third pick