Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[Flagrant Fowl]

Unless they could replace him with another high level point guard or at least a dynamic offensive wing, the Suns without Chris Paul next season would be at the back end of the playoff seedings.

I get that he's old, but he's still going to be a huge factor in winning games. The offensive void without Paul is much bigger than what the Suns would miss without Ayton. It's much easier to replace a role-playing Center than a 3rd Team All-NBA guard.

[specialsauce]

Unless they could replace him with another high level point guard or at least a dynamic offensive wing, the Suns without Chris Paul next season would be at the back end of the playoff seedings.

I get that he's old, but he's still going to be a huge factor in winning games. The offensive void without Paul is much bigger than what the Suns would miss without Ayton. It's much easier to replace a role-playing Center than a 3rd Team All-NBA guard.

Your goals are misguided. If we keep Paul it is to win a title in the next two years. We have basically no chance of doing that with Paul as our second best player, and the chances of getting someone dynamic with him on the roster are low. Therefore, we should look to our future. DA at least has a chance of developing and we’re better off spending these next two years gambling on him improving and then adding pieces around him and Book.

With Paul we are not in win-now mode OR build for the future mode. We’re just stuck in mediocrity until he retires then we’re without DA, AND Paul and back at retooling.

We need a direction. With DA we can keep building and stay competitive, if we don’t like where we’re headed we can trade him and he’ll still hold tremendous value

[JeremyG]

Funny how you all don't want to keep Ayton because he's not worth paying and yet you won't take an All-Star center for him.

Maybe it’s because Centers are overrated. And Vucevic made 2 all-star games in 11 years and won’t make another one. He’s 32 and on the downslope. I think we’d all also gladly keep Ayton if he was willing to play at the 22 million Vucevic will make next year.

So it’s not okay to pay Ayton $30 million, but it is okay to pay him $22? He is worth the extra $8 million. To build this team around Chris Paul is a mistake at this point.

Ya, 8 million is a lot. By that logic we should have just paid Bridges the max.

And what other option do we have besides building around Paul? Are you suggesting we just focus on the future? Trade Paul? That’s probably not gonna fly with Booker at all. Sometimes I don’t think we consider all the mechanics at play when we as fans make suggestions.

We should keep Paul (that's still my preference for one more year at least) and focus on the future by keeping Ayton. Don't trade away your future just to build around an aging Paul.

[SunsRIt]

Unless they could replace him with another high level point guard or at least a dynamic offensive wing, the Suns without Chris Paul next season would be at the back end of the playoff seedings.

I get that he's old, but he's still going to be a huge factor in winning games. The offensive void without Paul is much bigger than what the Suns would miss without Ayton. It's much easier to replace a role-playing Center than a 3rd Team All-NBA guard.

The rise started again in the bubble. Chris Paul didn’t play in the bubble Ricky Rubio did.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Unless they could replace him with another high level point guard or at least a dynamic offensive wing, the Suns without Chris Paul next season would be at the back end of the playoff seedings.

I get that he's old, but he's still going to be a huge factor in winning games. The offensive void without Paul is much bigger than what the Suns would miss without Ayton. It's much easier to replace a role-playing Center than a 3rd Team All-NBA guard.

The rise started again in the bubble. Chris Paul didn’t play in the bubble Ricky Rubio did.

They also missed the playoffs in the bubble but went to the Finals and set a record for franchise wins in Chris Paul's two seasons.

[SunsRIt]

Funny how you all don't want to keep Ayton because he's not worth paying and yet you won't take an All-Star center for him.

Maybe it’s because Centers are overrated. And Vucevic made 2 all-star games in 11 years and won’t make another one. He’s 32 and on the downslope. I think we’d all also gladly keep Ayton if he was willing to play at the 22 million Vucevic will make next year.

So it’s not okay to pay Ayton $30 million, but it is okay to pay him $22? He is worth the extra $8 million. To build this team around Chris Paul is a mistake at this point.

Ya, 8 million is a lot. By that logic we should have just paid Bridges the max.

And what other option do we have besides building around Paul? Are you suggesting we just focus on the future? Trade Paul? That’s probably not gonna fly with Booker at all. Sometimes I don’t think we consider all the mechanics at play when we as fans make suggestions.

Yet we can trade for Landry Shamet and sign him to an extension of $10 million a year before he steps on the court for us. Sounds like a good idea to let Ayton go for an $8 million difference. This franchise has pined for a center like Ayton since it’s inception and now that we have one we just let him walk over $8 million??

And Bridges isn’t worth near the max.

[Flagrant Fowl]

It's a lot easier to get off of a mistake that's in the MLE range than one in the max-salary range.

[SunsRIt]

Unless they could replace him with another high level point guard or at least a dynamic offensive wing, the Suns without Chris Paul next season would be at the back end of the playoff seedings.

I get that he's old, but he's still going to be a huge factor in winning games. The offensive void without Paul is much bigger than what the Suns would miss without Ayton. It's much easier to replace a role-playing Center than a 3rd Team All-NBA guard.

The rise started again in the bubble. Chris Paul didn’t play in the bubble Ricky Rubio did.

They also missed the playoffs in the bubble but went to the Finals and set a record for franchise wins in Chris Paul's two seasons.

They missed the playoffs in the bubble? No shit, they were too far out to even make the playoffs after going 8-0. They went 8-0 with out Chris Paul though.

Chris Paul has set franchise records for wins in a season with 4 different franchises and has never won a title. He’s a great regular season point guard that withers when the chips are down. See last years Bucks series and this years Dallas series as examples. He’s also going to be 38 by next year’s playoffs. We aren’t winning a title with Chris Paul as the point guard. To think otherwise is delusional.

[SunsRIt]

It's a lot easier to get off of a mistake that's in the MLE range than one in the max-salary range.

At least it’s not a super max. It’s $30 million, not $50 million.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Unless they could replace him with another high level point guard or at least a dynamic offensive wing, the Suns without Chris Paul next season would be at the back end of the playoff seedings.

I get that he's old, but he's still going to be a huge factor in winning games. The offensive void without Paul is much bigger than what the Suns would miss without Ayton. It's much easier to replace a role-playing Center than a 3rd Team All-NBA guard.

The rise started again in the bubble. Chris Paul didn’t play in the bubble Ricky Rubio did.

They also missed the playoffs in the bubble but went to the Finals and set a record for franchise wins in Chris Paul's two seasons.

They missed the playoffs in the bubble? No shit, they were too far out to even make the playoffs after going 8-0. They went 8-0 with out Chris Paul though.

Chris Paul has set franchise records for wins in a season with 4 different franchises and has never won a title. He’s a great regular season point guard that withers when the chips are down. See last years Bucks series and this years Dallas series as examples. He’s also going to be 38 by next year’s playoffs. We aren’t winning a title with Chris Paul as the point guard. To think otherwise is delusional.

The Suns just had winning streaks of 18, 11, 9, and 8 games last season.

I don't get how it's delusional to think the Suns can win a title with Chris Paul but it's not delusional to replace him with a lesser point guard just to retain an overpaid Center.

Actually, this is a dumb debate. The Suns aren't looking at Paul/Ayton in an either/or scenario. They just don't believe Ayton is worth the money he wants. Chris Paul has nothing to do with it.

[Flagrant Fowl]

It's a lot easier to get off of a mistake that's in the MLE range than one in the max-salary range.

At least it’s not a super max. It’s $30 million, not $50 million.

What does that have to do with Landry Shamet's contract?

[Superbone]

Just max everyone. Duh.

Do any of these guys just saying to pay whatever the players want have any savings of their own? Or do they just spend all of their income?

Unfortunately, money is finite. Otherwise, yeah, just pay him and everybody else whatever their agents ask for.

[SunsRIt]

Just max everyone. Duh.

Do any of these guys just saying to pay whatever the players want have any savings of their own? Or do they just spend all of their income?

Unfortunately, money is finite. Otherwise, yeah, just pay him and everybody else whatever their agents ask for.

Ayton will get a max contract, whether from us or someone else. You know what that means? That means a max contract is his market value. It’s pretty basic economics really. It’s not just his agent asking for it.

[Superbone]

Just max everyone. Duh.

Do any of these guys just saying to pay whatever the players want have any savings of their own? Or do they just spend all of their income?

Unfortunately, money is finite. Otherwise, yeah, just pay him and everybody else whatever their agents ask for.

Ayton will get a max contract, whether from us or someone else. You know what that means? That means a max contract is his market value. It’s pretty basic economics really. It’s not just his agent asking for it.

That's true. Then it comes down to if that amount of salary is worth it to the team for his production and what will be left to sign other players to make the best team possible.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Just max everyone. Duh.

Do any of these guys just saying to pay whatever the players want have any savings of their own? Or do they just spend all of their income?

Unfortunately, money is finite. Otherwise, yeah, just pay him and everybody else whatever their agents ask for.

Ayton will get a max contract, whether from us or someone else. You know what that means? That means a max contract is his market value. It’s pretty basic economics really. It’s not just his agent asking for it.

That's true. Then it comes down to if that amount of salary is worth it to the team for his production and what will be left to sign other players to make the best team possible.

This is why the "market value" argument is so flawed, and it's more often than not how teams get themselves into cap trouble.

[SunsRIt]

Just max everyone. Duh.

Do any of these guys just saying to pay whatever the players want have any savings of their own? Or do they just spend all of their income?

Unfortunately, money is finite. Otherwise, yeah, just pay him and everybody else whatever their agents ask for.

Ayton will get a max contract, whether from us or someone else. You know what that means? That means a max contract is his market value. It’s pretty basic economics really. It’s not just his agent asking for it.

That's true. Then it comes down to if that amount of salary is worth it to the team for his production and what will be left to sign other players to make the best team possible.

This is why the "market value" argument is so flawed, and it's more often than not how teams get themselves into cap trouble.

It’s not just an argument, it’s a fact of the NBA. If you want to compete you have to pay for players.

Why is nobody complains about the fact we are paying a PG we can’t win a title with $40+ million dollars? Instead, let’s let a center that hasn’t hit his ceiling yet walk.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Ok, given the rumors...Ayton and Cam Johnson or Shamet (if you can get away with it...) for Turner, Rubio and Haliburton?

[TOO]

Indy gave up Sabonis to get Haliburton, can't see that happening.

[Drewsprocket]

Last year I was about maxing Ayton. But it’s very apparent that he’s a locker room problem. And Aystans are struggling with the concept that Monty is standing in for his players to politely take the hit for having troubles with him. Ayton isn’t winning this team a title. He’s soft, avoids contact, doesn’t have the handles to score outside being fed the defenses give him, and he needs lots of powdering on his butt to be the player he is.
I’m disappointed too. I am with the Aystans. But I won’t split from the rest of the team and Monty and JJ just because I really want him to succeed as a sun and show his true potential. If he gets his bag and turns into a 30 and 20 guy for a different team, it won’t be because he was held back on the suns. It’ll be because of Ayton.

[specialsauce]

Ok, given the rumors...Ayton and Cam Johnson or Shamet (if you can get away with it...) for Turner, Rubio and Haliburton?

You can’t package Ayton with anything. Illegal