Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[JeremyG]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

This team isn't a championship contender, sorry. Barely scraped outta the 1st round, absolutely smacked in the 2nd, needs a retooling. Duh.

Retooling by trading Ayton for lesser value and making the team worse? Why keep CP3 if that’s the case?

[TOO]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

This team isn't a championship contender, sorry. Barely scraped outta the 1st round, absolutely smacked in the 2nd, needs a retooling. Duh.

Retooling by trading Ayton for lesser value and making the team worse? Why keep CP3 if that’s the case?

In this scenario I do not believe trading Ayton isn't the end of the retooling. Always thought KD was their main objective, still believe that. If a star is not attainable, then sure, run it back, but there is no reason to max a guy who isnt max-worthy. Especially when they've got Booker supermax coming up and they'll no doubt pay that.

[Indy]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

A few days ago the argument was "if the market says he is worth the max, we should pay him the max."

Today the argument is "if the market says he *isn't* worth the max, we should still pay him the max."

[Superbone]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Bledsoe?! Really? He sucked! He should have never gotten that contract. He fell off the map after he left. We should have gone with Dragic instead. If we can keep Ayton for his commensurate value, awesome!

[Shabazz]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

That’s not how I remember the Bledsoe situation going down. We did give him a very generous extension after we traded for him. He then wanted another extension which we rightly did not give him. That wasn’t the only reason he “didn’t want to be here,” but it was a big part of it. Also, fuck that guy and good riddance. He proved to not be worth any future deals he got and was never good enough to hold that kind of power. Sorry, I’m not on team Bledsoe.

[specialsauce]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

A few days ago the argument was "if the market says he is worth the max, we should pay him the max."

Today the argument is "if the market says he *isn't* worth the max, we should still pay him the max."

Uh yeah. I wouldn’t pay him any more than another team in the league is willing. That’s dumb.

[Superbone]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

A few days ago the argument was "if the market says he is worth the max, we should pay him the max."

Today the argument is "if the market says he *isn't* worth the max, we should still pay him the max."

Uh yeah. I wouldn’t pay him any more than another team in the league is willing. That’s dumb.

...but you might make him angry!

[Superbone]

https://arizonasports.com/story/3187884 ... -strategy/

GM James Jones clarifies ESPN article on Phoenix Suns’ draft strategy

After the Phoenix Suns did not trade into a 2022 NBA Draft they had no selections in, general manager James Jones clarified an ESPN article that came out on Wednesday and painted a detailed picture of the team’s unorthodox draft practices.

A quote from Suns senior analyst of personnel and team evaluation Zach Amundson said by the time the Suns’ scouting process is finished, their “draft board” only has five to seven players listed and the board “would be a mockery to other teams.”

The article, which featured quotes from many members of the front office including Jones, spotlighted Phoenix’s disinterest in young players who are drafted primarily because of their upside.

Phoenix’s draft board, later described as “sparse” and “tedious” in the piece by ESPN’s Kevin Arnovitz and said to be a practice the Suns have “sworn off,” is in fact not just a list with not even 10 prospects on it. Sure, it ends up with a group of preferred names at the top, but Jones on Thursday made it sound like it is not a process where they are crossing a bunch of names off like the article suggested.

“Nah, man, we have every player that’s in the draft processed on our board,” Jones said with a smile and laugh when asked if the board winds up with somewhere around 20 players or less on it. “When you get down to it, if you look at the combination of fit, skill set, talent, need — you typically get down somewhere about 10 guys who you know are really high-level fits. After that, you’re talking about degrees of fit and how much time, how much energy, how many opportunities guys will need to assimilate and kind of get acclimated to how you play.

“So you just prioritize and you put them in tiers. But I think when you go into tonight, you have all of those players but you truly know there are about eight to ten guys that you can say are truly Suns players that from day one will come in and not have very many issues getting accustomed to or getting integrated to what you do.”

Read more from the link above...

[TOO]

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

A few days ago the argument was "if the market says he is worth the max, we should pay him the max."

Today the argument is "if the market says he *isn't* worth the max, we should still pay him the max."

Uh yeah. I wouldn’t pay him any more than another team in the league is willing. That’s dumb.

...but you might make him angry!

Awesome, maybe he will play with some aggression.

[specialsauce]

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

A few days ago the argument was "if the market says he is worth the max, we should pay him the max."

Today the argument is "if the market says he *isn't* worth the max, we should still pay him the max."

Uh yeah. I wouldn’t pay him any more than another team in the league is willing. That’s dumb.

...but you might make him angry!

Awesome, maybe he will play with some aggression.

Exactly what I was going to say lol

[JeremyG]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

A few days ago the argument was "if the market says he is worth the max, we should pay him the max."

Today the argument is "if the market says he *isn't* worth the max, we should still pay him the max."

Sarver's strategy is to manipulate the market. Again, see Bledsoe's 2014 RFA.

[JeremyG]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

That’s not how I remember the Bledsoe situation going down. We did give him a very generous extension after we traded for him. He then wanted another extension which we rightly did not give him. That wasn’t the only reason he “didn’t want to be here,” but it was a big part of it. Also, fuck that guy and good riddance. He proved to not be worth any future deals he got and was never good enough to hold that kind of power. Sorry, I’m not on team Bledsoe.

No, we never signed him to an extension. When we traded for him in 2013 he was on his rookie deal and he became an RFA in 2014, which was the long summer where the Suns lowballed him and then eventually came to a deal, with Bledsoe's hatred for the organization increasing from that point forward, up until he demanded a trade 3 years later (fall of 2017).

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Someone on here made a comparison of David Robinson to Deandre...whom I always loathed for a number of reasons, but one of those was the inspiration of my pet nickname for him of Softy the Sailorman. I was reflecting on that, going, hey...David won a ring...granted that took Tim Duncan with him, but hey, who am I to buck winning if it works...so I thought I'd look at...FTA comparison between the two.

David's averages for FTAs ran from say 5.6-6 to 10, with most years in the 8-10 range. The lower rate was more a consequence of health later on in his career.

Deandre? 2.7 to 2.4 FTA per game average.

Sooo...new nickname for Deandre...Deandre, the new...Stay-Puft Marshamallow Man...(I know, probably shouldn't of, but couldn't help myself...)

VT

[JeremyG]

What's the over/under on how many pages this thread gets to?

[TOO]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

A few days ago the argument was "if the market says he is worth the max, we should pay him the max."

Today the argument is "if the market says he *isn't* worth the max, we should still pay him the max."

Sarver's strategy is to manipulate the market. Again, see Bledsoe's 2014 RFA.

Sarver has no bearing on whether or not anyone wants to pay Ayton more than he's worth. He did the right thing by not maxing him last year, it's a position that just doesn't warrant it unless you're an perennial MVP candidate.

[Shabazz]

If that’s the way it goes, it’s heading in the direction of the Eric Bledsoe situation. We already did that once and it didn’t end well. Sarver never learns from his mistakes. It’s either gonna be JJ part 2 or Bledsoe part 2.

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

That’s not how I remember the Bledsoe situation going down. We did give him a very generous extension after we traded for him. He then wanted another extension which we rightly did not give him. That wasn’t the only reason he “didn’t want to be here,” but it was a big part of it. Also, fuck that guy and good riddance. He proved to not be worth any future deals he got and was never good enough to hold that kind of power. Sorry, I’m not on team Bledsoe.

No, we never signed him to an extension. When we traded for him in 2013 he was on his rookie deal and he became an RFA in 2014, which was the long summer where the Suns lowballed him and then eventually came to a deal, with Bledsoe's hatred for the organization increasing from that point forward, up until he demanded a trade 3 years later (fall of 2017).

Like I said, we gave him an extension after we traded for him. He got a significant deal with us. If the negotiations were contentious it's on Rich Paul to do a better job of shielding Bledsoe from that. It's not good business to just give players what they want because otherwise they'll get the sads.

The other part of what I said is true also. Rich Paul approached the Suns for another extension and the Suns balked because it was very early in the process. That was a big part of what triggered Bledsoe to ask out. Maybe there was some residual unhappiness from the first negotiation. That's Bledsoe's problem.

We had plenty of organizational problems at the time. Not catering to a mediocre talent like Bledsoe wasn't one of them.

[JeremyG]

Why pay more than he is worth? Honestly? If nobody in the league thinks Ayton is max-worthy, why should the Suns pay that?

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

That’s not how I remember the Bledsoe situation going down. We did give him a very generous extension after we traded for him. He then wanted another extension which we rightly did not give him. That wasn’t the only reason he “didn’t want to be here,” but it was a big part of it. Also, fuck that guy and good riddance. He proved to not be worth any future deals he got and was never good enough to hold that kind of power. Sorry, I’m not on team Bledsoe.

No, we never signed him to an extension. When we traded for him in 2013 he was on his rookie deal and he became an RFA in 2014, which was the long summer where the Suns lowballed him and then eventually came to a deal, with Bledsoe's hatred for the organization increasing from that point forward, up until he demanded a trade 3 years later (fall of 2017).

Like I said, we gave him an extension after we traded for him. He got a significant deal with us. If the negotiations were contentious it's on Rich Paul to do a better job of shielding Bledsoe from that. It's not good business to just give players what they want because otherwise they'll get the sads.

The other part of what I said is true also. Rich Paul approached the Suns for another extension and the Suns balked because it was very early in the process. That was a big part of what triggered Bledsoe to ask out. Maybe there was some residual unhappiness from the first negotiation. That's Bledsoe's problem.

We had plenty of organizational problems at the time. Not catering to a mediocre talent like Bledsoe wasn't one of them.

The final trigger for Bledsoe asking out was the Earl Watson/Rich Paul event where Sarver demanded that Watson fire Paul.

[Shabazz]

In order to keep a championship contender together without messing up the team chemistry and alienating your players. Duh.

All I ask is that the Suns learn from their mistakes. Bledsoe hated the Suns after what happened and eventually demanded out. It’s an awful, unethical, trash way of doing business. Using RFA against your player by telling teams you will match any offer in order to scare teams away from making an offer at all while you also refuse to make a decent offer so that you can eventually lowball your RFA and you can try to get him for a cheap price? It’s disgusting and it’s classic Sarver. They refused to even give DA an offer last summer. They better at least give him an offer at the beginning of free agency, if Jones is telling the truth when he says he wants to keep the team together.

That’s not how I remember the Bledsoe situation going down. We did give him a very generous extension after we traded for him. He then wanted another extension which we rightly did not give him. That wasn’t the only reason he “didn’t want to be here,” but it was a big part of it. Also, fuck that guy and good riddance. He proved to not be worth any future deals he got and was never good enough to hold that kind of power. Sorry, I’m not on team Bledsoe.

No, we never signed him to an extension. When we traded for him in 2013 he was on his rookie deal and he became an RFA in 2014, which was the long summer where the Suns lowballed him and then eventually came to a deal, with Bledsoe's hatred for the organization increasing from that point forward, up until he demanded a trade 3 years later (fall of 2017).

Like I said, we gave him an extension after we traded for him. He got a significant deal with us. If the negotiations were contentious it's on Rich Paul to do a better job of shielding Bledsoe from that. It's not good business to just give players what they want because otherwise they'll get the sads.

The other part of what I said is true also. Rich Paul approached the Suns for another extension and the Suns balked because it was very early in the process. That was a big part of what triggered Bledsoe to ask out. Maybe there was some residual unhappiness from the first negotiation. That's Bledsoe's problem.

We had plenty of organizational problems at the time. Not catering to a mediocre talent like Bledsoe wasn't one of them.

The final trigger for Bledsoe asking out was the Earl Watson/Rich Paul event where Sarver demanded that Watson fire Paul.

…because of the Bledsoe 2nd extension discussions.

[Shabazz]

Here you go: https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020 ... ul-in-2017

[JeremyG]

Wow, I finally heard the audio and Rankin had it right, Kellan Olson had it wrong. Jones actually said: "We're going to keep it together." Not "want to," not "try to." He didn't leave any wiggle room for getting out of that later. Hmmm.