Jae Crowder trade request

[Split T]

Ya if 85 was the number I think we should’ve done it. Probably could have got him for 80. Maybe even on a declining deal which would make it super valuable going forward when the cap spikes. I’d be interested to know what our reasoning was, but wouldn’t be surprised if we are trying to keep options open for a bigger deal…and I don’t just mean KD.

Don’t think it’ll be a big deal though. I don’t expect the CamJ value to change much even as a starter. He’s a role player, a good one, but still a role player.

[Superbone]

So far he has regressed since the Knicks game last season. I hope he gets it back together.

[INFORMER]

OTOH, I'm not entirely certain Cam Johnson is a legitimate staring PF on a good team. Of course I'd like to see him stay in Phoenix, but not if it means paying him a salary that dramatically exceeds his role on the team. The difference between a full time starter and a sixth man, for example.

It's the same situation we just went through with Ayton, albeit at one level higher.

I doubt he was asking for Tyler Herro money (4/130). And Herro was a sixth man last season. Salaries are only going to keep skyrocketing.

Come on. You the situation is more nuanced than that. Herro put up starter numbers. He was a sixth man in the mold of Manu Ginobili, who is probably going to be a HOFer. He was basically like James Harden was in OKC. And Harden similarly got a max extension once he was dealt.

[JeremyG]

OTOH, I'm not entirely certain Cam Johnson is a legitimate staring PF on a good team. Of course I'd like to see him stay in Phoenix, but not if it means paying him a salary that dramatically exceeds his role on the team. The difference between a full time starter and a sixth man, for example.

It's the same situation we just went through with Ayton, albeit at one level higher.

I doubt he was asking for Tyler Herro money (4/130). And Herro was a sixth man last season. Salaries are only going to keep skyrocketing.

Come on. You the situation is more nuanced than that. Herro put up starter numbers.

That’s why I said he wasn’t asking for 130M. Turns out he was only asking for 85M, even though he’s a starter now. And we still wouldn’t do it.

He was a sixth man in the mold of Manu Ginobili, who is probably going to be a HOFer. He was basically like James Harden was in OKC. And Harden similarly got a max extension once he was dealt.

Bold prediction.

[Mori Chu]

If Cam ends up sucking, not extending him will look like a savvy move. But I don't think he will suck. I think he will be good, and then he will play himself out of our price range.

[Drewsprocket]

Ya if 85 was the number I think we should’ve done it. Probably could have got him for 80. Maybe even on a declining deal which would make it super valuable going forward when the cap spikes. I’d be interested to know what our reasoning was, but wouldn’t be surprised if we are trying to keep options open for a bigger deal…and I don’t just mean KD.

Don’t think it’ll be a big deal though. I don’t expect the CamJ value to change much even as a starter. He’s a role player, a good one, but still a role player.

His ceiling seems to be Harrison Barnes. Guaranteed $85 million would have appeared the right number. Idk.

[Superbone]

If Cam ends up sucking, not extending him will look like a savvy move. But I don't think he will suck. I think he will be good, and then he will play himself out of our price range.

We don't know what the new owner's price range will be.

[Split T]

If Cam ends up sucking, not extending him will look like a savvy move. But I don't think he will suck. I think he will be good, and then he will play himself out of our price range.

I don’t know what some of you think CamJ is gonna do this year, but I find it very hard to believe he’s gonna increase his value that much beyond 85 million over 4 years.

[Split T]

Ya if 85 was the number I think we should’ve done it. Probably could have got him for 80. Maybe even on a declining deal which would make it super valuable going forward when the cap spikes. I’d be interested to know what our reasoning was, but wouldn’t be surprised if we are trying to keep options open for a bigger deal…and I don’t just mean KD.

Don’t think it’ll be a big deal though. I don’t expect the CamJ value to change much even as a starter. He’s a role player, a good one, but still a role player.

His ceiling seems to be Harrison Barnes. Guaranteed $85 million would have appeared the right number. Idk.

Which we can still pay him next year. He’s not at the Barnes level yet, I think it’s fine to make him earn it.

[Superbone]

If Cam ends up sucking, not extending him will look like a savvy move. But I don't think he will suck. I think he will be good, and then he will play himself out of our price range.

I don’t know what some of you think CamJ is gonna do this year, but I find it very hard to believe he’s gonna increase his value that much beyond 85 million over 4 years.

I'm with you but I hope he surprises us.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Ya if 85 was the number I think we should’ve done it. Probably could have got him for 80. Maybe even on a declining deal which would make it super valuable going forward when the cap spikes. I’d be interested to know what our reasoning was, but wouldn’t be surprised if we are trying to keep options open for a bigger deal…and I don’t just mean KD.

Don’t think it’ll be a big deal though. I don’t expect the CamJ value to change much even as a starter. He’s a role player, a good one, but still a role player.

His ceiling seems to be Harrison Barnes. Guaranteed $85 million would have appeared the right number. Idk.

Which we can still pay him next year. He’s not at the Barnes level yet, I think it’s fine to make him earn it.

This, and the flexibility to include him on trades is what determined his fate. And for those wanting to keep Mikal, it must be right to keep Cam J highly tradeable instead of split the difference. Maybe Jones put a premium on NOT be able to trade him.

Ayton is a much bigger piece of the puzzle and Jones was not afraid to take this same route of keeping flexibility and be surgical about what does "split the difference" means. He is a disciplined GM, sometimes to a fault level, but the it seems that the faulty side of an over disciplined GM is missed opportunities and lack of movement (disguised as stability), while the opposite is ended up strangled up because you lack flexibility, overpriced contracts across the cap sheet and real unstability because they keep trading anything for anyone. Hopefully, Jones is capable to avoid his darkside.

[JeremyG]

If Cam ends up sucking, not extending him will look like a savvy move. But I don't think he will suck. I think he will be good, and then he will play himself out of our price range.

We don't know what the new owner's price range will be.

That's why they should have locked him up now.

[JeremyG]

[Split T]

Man the complaining about not signing extensions is getting old…can we get back to fighting about how good Ayton is?

[Superbone]

If Cam ends up sucking, not extending him will look like a savvy move. But I don't think he will suck. I think he will be good, and then he will play himself out of our price range.

We don't know what the new owner's price range will be.

That's why they should have locked him up now.

I don't follow your reasoning. Cam will get paid what the market dictates. No more, no less. This may end up working out even better for Cam. It's up to him and his play this season.

[JeremyG]

If Cam ends up sucking, not extending him will look like a savvy move. But I don't think he will suck. I think he will be good, and then he will play himself out of our price range.

We don't know what the new owner's price range will be.

That's why they should have locked him up now.

I don't follow your reasoning. Cam will get paid what the market dictates. No more, no less. This may end up working out even better for Cam. It's up to him and his play this season.

Yes, and his market value may end up being out of the new owner's price range, like Mori said. Why take the risk? Why not lock him up now?

[Drewsprocket]

Espo says it’s Sarver’s final fuck you to fans for not being forgiven. Idk. Many theories make sense. I guess it seems reasonable that JJ has had his hands tide throughout Sarver’s games.

[Indy]

Espo blaming Sarver is just Espo blaming the easiest guy in the room. All we know is the organization and Book's dad couldn't agree on his worth. That's OK.

[Drewsprocket]

Espo blaming Sarver is just Espo blaming the easiest guy in the room. All we know is the organization and Book's dad couldn't agree on his worth. That's OK.

Yeah I’m just disappointed and uninformed. It’s definitely been a strange offseason and underwhelming lead up for a new season that feels mind boggling. I go between thinking JJ is keeping himself poised for a big swing on a star or is trying to mitigate Sarver trying to undermine the franchise.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

This is a business, and of course relationships are a big part of any negotiation. But you can't operate under the restrain of being unable to say, "No thanks, I can't give you that" on fear of slightly offend your counterpart. In such case, you are not negotiating, you are imploring for mercy.

I get that all the Lebrons, the Durants, etc HAVE TO agree to contracts well below their true market value because of the CBA, and therefore get the leverage to negotiate other aspects, but if the league (in the general sense of teams, not just ownership) have to start caving to every wimp from the Crowders, Cam J's and such, to avoid "hurting their feelings", then we are headed in the wrong direction. Don't like it at all if every single player in the league is going to act like this, then why not just wipe out the CBA and let go as well guaranteed contracts and players options, because those are huge concessions the players don't like to talk about. If those $85 mill weren't written in stone to go to Cam's pocket, no matter how bad he plays from now on, or even if he never gets to play again, it would be a lot easier to split differences and such. Actually, the CBA exists to protect the middle class and below of NBA players, those Crowders and Cam J's on his own would never be able to get guaranteed contracts, and in the other hand, RFA and Team's options, are what the NBPA had to give in exchange, but now they want it all. They want their cake and eat it too.

In this world, the absolute best get to dictate terms, the absolute worst get no chance on the table, and the rest have to earn every penny and every conccesion. Even with a CBA on place, the NBA works that way, even if that same CBA makes the average player a much more stronger negotiators. And Cam J is on that category, no matter how much the twiterverse tries to over state his value and his contract situation.

The media is creating an imposible situation on an inexistent problem.

Give the kid what he wants to avoid hurting his feelings is not a successful recipe for anything. And I say "kids" not just for the players, but also for the fandom when they act like there is no money involve on any of this, just because it's not their money.