Game Day: Celtics (20-5) @ Suns (16-8), Wed 12/7/22

[Split T]

I’ve been thinking that we should really adopt the 5-out strategy going forward. I think that’s the future of the nba. Boston really seems to have the ideal team. They’ve got multiple 2-way wings that can create offense, shoot 3s, and defend multiple positions. They play bigs that are skilled and shoot well(outside of I guess Robert Williams).

I think if I had my way, I’d pair Booker with another playmaking wing(Siakam was my dream last year, but he’s too good now to acquire). Keep Bridges and Johnson and add another big wing like Kuzma.

Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Kuzma/Siakam

All 6’5-6’9, all can shoot, all can at least attack a closeout, all can defend multiple positions, at least 3 can reliably create their own shot, and 2 can create for others.

I’d be fine running a more traditional C/PG off the bench, but I’d take the Clippers/Celtics/Raptors approach of loading up on 2-way wings.

A true C that can legitimately space the floor would also work, but I’d want them to be able to switch consistently and I’m not sure there are many of those guys in the league.

I would hate to see 5-out being the dominant style of play. I already think it is too much about guys jacking up 3's with a hand in the face. Maybe they need to start thinking about moving the 3-pt line back.

I wouldn’t be upset if they made some rule changes to incentivize a more diverse style of play…but it does feel like a shift is happening.

Maybe allow hand checking again, call carrying the ball and eliminate the “gather” step. Call the game the way it used to be called and it would eliminate a lot of the advantages the offense has right now.

Well it would hurt the offense, but wouldn’t exactly promote post play or anything. Get rid of offensive 3 seconds(or make it 5), find a way to get rid of charges(maybe move the no charge circle further out?) Moving the 3 point line out could help too. Widen the court and eliminate the short corner 3s.

[virtual9mm]

I’ve been thinking that we should really adopt the 5-out strategy going forward. I think that’s the future of the nba. Boston really seems to have the ideal team. They’ve got multiple 2-way wings that can create offense, shoot 3s, and defend multiple positions. They play bigs that are skilled and shoot well(outside of I guess Robert Williams).

I think if I had my way, I’d pair Booker with another playmaking wing(Siakam was my dream last year, but he’s too good now to acquire). Keep Bridges and Johnson and add another big wing like Kuzma.

Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Kuzma/Siakam

All 6’5-6’9, all can shoot, all can at least attack a closeout, all can defend multiple positions, at least 3 can reliably create their own shot, and 2 can create for others.

I’d be fine running a more traditional C/PG off the bench, but I’d take the Clippers/Celtics/Raptors approach of loading up on 2-way wings.

A true C that can legitimately space the floor would also work, but I’d want them to be able to switch consistently and I’m not sure there are many of those guys in the league.

I would hate to see 5-out being the dominant style of play. I already think it is too much about guys jacking up 3's with a hand in the face. Maybe they need to start thinking about moving the 3-pt line back.

I wouldn’t be upset if they made some rule changes to incentivize a more diverse style of play…but it does feel like a shift is happening.

Maybe allow hand checking again, call carrying the ball and eliminate the “gather” step. Call the game the way it used to be called and it would eliminate a lot of the advantages the offense has right now.

Well it would hurt the offense, but wouldn’t exactly promote post play or anything. Get rid of offensive 3 seconds(or make it 5), find a way to get rid of charges(maybe move the no charge circle further out?) Moving the 3 point line out could help too. Widen the court and eliminate the short corner 3s.

I think that's exactly the solution -- widen the court and eliminate the short corner 3's. An alternative would be to start awarding 3 points per dunk, incentivizing drives and post play by big men. I'd love to see players try to dunk everything; they'd also get 3 FTs on dunk attempts or something that looks like a dunk attempt. I wouldn't mind Steph Curry so much if the Shaqs of the world also got their due. Shotblocking would also become even more prized, making a Ruby Gobert really valuable again.

Edit: you know what -- a dunk SHOULD be valued more than a layup, just like a 3 SHOULD be valued more than a mid-range jumper. It's a more difficult and spectacular shot.

[Split T]

That might have the opposite effect though…teams would pack the paint to prevent dunks and 3s would be even more wide open.

[virtual9mm]

That might have the opposite effect though…teams would pack the paint to prevent dunks and 3s would be even more wide open.

Well -- I wouldn't mind that -- becomes a matter of game play and strategy. You'd still need a monster big man to force the defense to pack the paint. Increases the value of a dominant center or a true POWER forward -- and makes it so that teams like the Clippers or the Mavs that just have 6' 8' big wings jacking up contested 3's can't ever win anything.

[specialsauce]

I would hate to see 5-out being the dominant style of play. I already think it is too much about guys jacking up 3's with a hand in the face. Maybe they need to start thinking about moving the 3-pt line back.

I wouldn’t be upset if they made some rule changes to incentivize a more diverse style of play…but it does feel like a shift is happening.

Maybe allow hand checking again, call carrying the ball and eliminate the “gather” step. Call the game the way it used to be called and it would eliminate a lot of the advantages the offense has right now.

Well it would hurt the offense, but wouldn’t exactly promote post play or anything. Get rid of offensive 3 seconds(or make it 5), find a way to get rid of charges(maybe move the no charge circle further out?) Moving the 3 point line out could help too. Widen the court and eliminate the short corner 3s.

I think that's exactly the solution -- widen the court and eliminate the short corner 3's. An alternative would be to start awarding 3 points per dunk, incentivizing drives and post play by big men. I'd love to see players try to dunk everything; they'd also get 3 FTs on dunk attempts or something that looks like a dunk attempt. I wouldn't mind Steph Curry so much if the Shaqs of the world also got their due. Shotblocking would also become even more prized, making a Ruby Gobert really valuable again.

Edit: you know what -- a dunk SHOULD be valued more than a layup, just like a 3 SHOULD be valued more than a mid-range jumper. It's a more difficult and spectacular shot.

They just need to allow some degree of hand checking again and ban the stupid ass step back 3s that Harden brought to the league that should be a travel.

Ja Morants bullshit should be called. Trae Young’s bullshit should be called.

Otherwise give the bigs the same advantages down low- allow elbows, hooking, moving screens

[JeremyG]

Mikal isn’t a consistently reliable scorer, but he’s is shooting 50/42/89 on the season. Hard to say he’s not a reliable shooter.

Mikal is fine at his salary for his role on the team. Have him focus on being a stopper for 1's, 2's, and normal sized 3's. We need a bigger, more physical 3/4 as well. But we knew this.

I agree, I’m perfectly happy with what Mikal is. Of course I’d love for him to develop into something more, but he doesn’t need to to justify his salary. Ayton on the other hand…

...is averaging 19.2/11.6 with .686 FG% in just 29.5 mpg his last 10 games.

[Split T]

Great, a max player would average that without having to add a qualifier. He also averaged 14/8 the first 10+ games…and we’ve had years of evidence that shows he won’t consistently keep up those numbers.

[INFORMER]

Everything is cherry-picking, spin, and blaming others...so weak.

Meanwhile, Booker is in the MVP conversation, and the APN is trying to manufacture a "he isn't a super-max player!" campaign.

[JeremyG]

Great, a max player would average that without having to add a qualifier. He also averaged 14/8 the first 10+ games…and we’ve had years of evidence that shows he won’t consistently keep up those numbers.

Lol, he would be averaging way more than that if Monty would play him 36 minutes a game.

[JeremyG]

Devin Booker has played like a Supermax player in only 3 of the last 10 games.

Interesting that you don't have a running tally of "Supermax Book" vs. "Less-than-Supermax Book." Inconsistency doesn't seem to matter around here unless it's DA. It would seem that consistency would be even more imperative for a Supermax franchise player.

[Split T]

Great, a max player would average that without having to add a qualifier. He also averaged 14/8 the first 10+ games…and we’ve had years of evidence that shows he won’t consistently keep up those numbers.

Lol, he would be averaging way more than that if Monty would play him 36 minutes a game.

His per-36 numbers are essentially the same as always. We’ve seen this for 5 years now. He’ll look like a max player for a few games and then he disappears. I won’t be disappointed if he’s moved

[JeremyG]

Great, a max player would average that without having to add a qualifier. He also averaged 14/8 the first 10+ games…and we’ve had years of evidence that shows he won’t consistently keep up those numbers.

Lol, he would be averaging way more than that if Monty would play him 36 minutes a game.

His per-36 numbers are essentially the same as always. We’ve seen this for 5 years now. He’ll look like a max player for a few games and then he disappears. I won’t be disappointed if he’s moved

And those per-36 numbers are max center numbers. For example, take a look at Bam. He actually plays 35.1 mpg and averages 21/9.

[INFORMER]

Devin Booker has played like a Supermax player in only 3 of the last 10 games.

Interesting that you don't have a running tally of "Supermax Book" vs. "Less-than-Supermax Book." Inconsistency doesn't seem to matter around here unless it's DA. It would seem that consistency would be even more imperative for a Supermax franchise player.

Sorry, Book has earned it. He is and has been a franchise player. He isn't perfect, and there are still things he needs to accomplish, but it is a very short list of players that are better than him in the league.

[Split T]

Great, a max player would average that without having to add a qualifier. He also averaged 14/8 the first 10+ games…and we’ve had years of evidence that shows he won’t consistently keep up those numbers.

Lol, he would be averaging way more than that if Monty would play him 36 minutes a game.

His per-36 numbers are essentially the same as always. We’ve seen this for 5 years now. He’ll look like a max player for a few games and then he disappears. I won’t be disappointed if he’s moved

And those per-36 numbers are max center numbers. For example, take a look at Bam. He actually plays 35.1 mpg and averages 21/9.

Bam can dribble and create for others. He’s also a better defensive player. They aren’t the same…if you’re just comparing pts/Reb, McGee averaged 20/15 per-36 last year. He was better than Ayton, we should’ve given him the max

[Superbone]

Everything is cherry-picking, spin, and blaming others...so weak.

Meanwhile, Booker is in the MVP conversation, and the APN is trying to manufacture a "he isn't a super-max player!" campaign.

Ayton Prime Network?

[INFORMER]

Everything is cherry-picking, spin, and blaming others...so weak.

Meanwhile, Booker is in the MVP conversation, and the APN is trying to manufacture a "he isn't a super-max player!" campaign.

Ayton Prime Network?

Ayton Propaganda Network

[Superbone]

Everything is cherry-picking, spin, and blaming others...so weak.

Meanwhile, Booker is in the MVP conversation, and the APN is trying to manufacture a "he isn't a super-max player!" campaign.

Ayton Prime Network?

Ayton Propaganda Network

Ah. I was close.

[JeremyG]

Great, a max player would average that without having to add a qualifier. He also averaged 14/8 the first 10+ games…and we’ve had years of evidence that shows he won’t consistently keep up those numbers.

Lol, he would be averaging way more than that if Monty would play him 36 minutes a game.

His per-36 numbers are essentially the same as always. We’ve seen this for 5 years now. He’ll look like a max player for a few games and then he disappears. I won’t be disappointed if he’s moved

And those per-36 numbers are max center numbers. For example, take a look at Bam. He actually plays 35.1 mpg and averages 21/9.

Bam can dribble and create for others. He’s also a better defensive player. They aren’t the same…if you’re just comparing pts/Reb, McGee averaged 20/15 per-36 last year. He was better than Ayton, we should’ve given him the max

Except that McGee can't actually do it for 36 minutes. Ayton has proven he can. He actually scored 22.2 ppg and got 14.0 rpg when playing 35 or more minutes last season.

[JeremyG]

Devin Booker has played like a Supermax player in only 3 of the last 10 games.

Interesting that you don't have a running tally of "Supermax Book" vs. "Less-than-Supermax Book." Inconsistency doesn't seem to matter around here unless it's DA. It would seem that consistency would be even more imperative for a Supermax franchise player.

Sorry, Book has earned it. He is and has been a franchise player. He isn't perfect, and there are still things he needs to accomplish, but it is a very short list of players that are better than him in the league.

Earned what? Not holding him to the same standard of playing up to his salary level?

[Split T]

Lol, he would be averaging way more than that if Monty would play him 36 minutes a game.

His per-36 numbers are essentially the same as always. We’ve seen this for 5 years now. He’ll look like a max player for a few games and then he disappears. I won’t be disappointed if he’s moved

And those per-36 numbers are max center numbers. For example, take a look at Bam. He actually plays 35.1 mpg and averages 21/9.

Bam can dribble and create for others. He’s also a better defensive player. They aren’t the same…if you’re just comparing pts/Reb, McGee averaged 20/15 per-36 last year. He was better than Ayton, we should’ve given him the max

Except that McGee can't actually do it for 36 minutes. Ayton has proven he can. He actually scored 22.2 ppg and got 14.0 rpg when playing 35 or more minutes last season.

You skipped over the Bam stuff. You think it’s fine that Ayton can’t dribble or playmake? Bam is also maybe the best defensive player in the game. Certainly on the short list of players at the top.