Suns News: Week 16 (1/30 - 2/5)

[Wally_West]

Listening to Chris Haynes and Marc Stein podcast #thisleague Uncut discussing the trade deadline, they talked about the crowder situation a little bit. Basically, Chris Haynes said it’s a staring contest for both of them. Something happened between the Suns and Jae that basically made the relationship unrepairable and that he heard rumor that Jae has been taking shots at the team during this process( I’m assuming he means at management or coaching, possibly both), and that 3 team deal that fell apart recently with us, the wiz and the bucks, had some people in one of those organizations wondering if he’ll end up being bought out( probably someone from the bucks lol).

Basically not a lot of teams want Jae but the the few teams that do, really want him and think he could be a difference maker in them doing something really special this year so because of that the Suns are trying to get the best deal possible out of those teams, something like getting a 1st round pick or two. He thinks it’s going to be the Bucks that get something done. They want him the most and crowder already talked to them as well. They both agreed that he will be traded and a buy out won’t happen.


I’m still listening, so I’ll update if they talk about the Suns again.

[Split T]

From a Toronto beat reporter:

Toronto was close to acquiring Deandre Ayton from Phoenix in a sign and trade last summer, according to a source. Perhaps there’s a deal to be made with the Suns, who are said to be one of Anunoby’s many suitors.

Just give me Ayton for OG and we’ll figure out the next step

[Split T]

And LOL at people assuming the Suns picks will be late 1st rounders.

Might as well just trade Booker then

Nah, he's still only 26, you trade Ayton, CamJ, unload as much dead weight as possible, draft and work FA.

So you want to build using mid to late 1sts and cap exceptions?

I just don’t understand why you guys want to hang onto 1sts so much. The team isn’t going to get a tear down with Booker here, those picks will not be great..we are going to be severely limited in FA for the foreseeable future. I get waiting for the right guy to spend your 1sts on and maybe OG/FVV aren’t that, but I also think we’re probably gonna get outbid when that time comes. Memphis, New Orleans, Utah, OKC, NY…these teams all have more picks and assets than us.

Ya, FVV and OG will need to be paid soon, but that’s why they are a little cheaper. No it doesn’t give us a true #2 for Book, but you’d have a top 10 guy and then 3 more top 50 guys. Ideally you’d have another top 20 guy(Siakam), but I think the skillsets match up well enough to make it work. FVV is another shot creator, Mikal has made pretty big strides and looks like a legit 3rd option and OG as a 4th option is about as good as it gets. No one would have a better defensive wing duo in the league. Ya size might be an issue, but cheap size feels like the easiest thing to come by right now.

I’m also just terrified of getting stuck with Ayton and the trajectory he’s on. I think he’s done here and his play shows it…his value is only going down and I think we need to strike while he still has value.

[Wally_West]

Hahaha

[Split T]

That’s awesome

[Superbone]

That is hilarious and quite clever!

[Drewsprocket]

a. Trading Ayton for anyone other than Sikam is a tear down and start over move, as the team has yet more holes.
b. Trading for another SF / Wing? (OG) Why? We don't suck there.
c. A breakout backup PG and an upgrade at PF are our known issues. None of the drivel getting spouted addresses EITHER of those. WTF?

VT

If you can get OG without losing Ayton, Bridges, and Book you do it. OG is a top defender with ceiling to get better offensively. Missing out would be a mistake. He is a bigger and better defender than Crowder and could play the 4.

Did you miss 'a'...trading Ayton for...which was the point. You seem to agree w/that...so...

Honestly I can’t recall whether I disagreed or agreed with you when I wrote this. Clearly there is so much calculus with all this now. Sorry if I misread you.
I feel like the true tear down is whether Ayton has shown who he is now that he has his bag. Giving us good offensive efficiency isn’t enough if he doesn’t go back to how great he was defensively and offensively grabbing clutch rebounds in the postseason. I want to hold onto the idea that if we can keep Ayton and get OG then we can try to get back where we were in the title race.
My guess now is that Raptors want him. So at least today agree that we should try to get Siakam back for him if that’s the deal on the table.

[Split T]

These just seem to be media made, but if interested:

Crowder finds a new home, Part 1

Brooklyn Nets get: Jae Crowder
Phoenix Suns get: Seth Curry, Kessler Edwards, two second-round picks

The Jae Crowder situation has dragged on all season long, with Phoenix effectively having to play down a man despite dealing with all sorts of injuries along the way. It's untenable for that to last through the deadline.

At the same time, if the price Phoenix was looking for was one teams were willing to pay, this saga would've ended months ago. Thus, we find ourselves at an impasse.

Brooklyn can at least give Phoenix a good player in Seth Curry, who can space the floor around Devin Booker and play off the ball. Curry's contract is up after this season and Edwards has a team option for 2023-24, which, along with the extra second-round picks, would leave Phoenix with more options in the future as Mat Ishbia gets set to take over as owner.

The Nets, meanwhile, need another rugged forward to be able to throw out there in playoff games. Brooklyn can't win a size battle with, say, Joel Embiid. Instead, the Nets need to lean into what they are and put more length, quickness and switchable defenders alongside Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Crowder, in theory, can provide that. And if the Nets add Crowder, Curry becomes even less likely to be part of a closing lineup in a playoff game in Brooklyn.

-- Tim Bontemps

Pascal to Phoenix

Toronto Raptors get: Deandre Ayton, Dario Saric, 2023 Phoenix first-round pick, 2026 swap rights, 2027 Phoenix first-round pick (top-10 protected in 2027, top-4 protected in 2028, unprotected in 2029)
Phoenix Suns get: Pascal Siakam

With Ishbia expected to have his purchase of the Suns finalized within the next week, as reported by ESPN's Baxter Holmes and Adrian Wojnarowski, let's get bold in Phoenix to take advantage of the team's remaining window with Chris Paul at point guard.

Siakam would give Phoenix another shot creator on offense to complement Devin Booker as well as a Swiss army knife on defense. The Suns could start traditional lineups with Siakam at power forward next to either Bismack Biyombo or Jock Landale, their remaining centers, but would surely finish games with Siakam in the middle flanked by Cam Johnson -- a unit that could switch any pick and would provide ample floor spacing for its stars to create one-on-one.

By including Saric, Phoenix would actually cut this year's luxury tax bill by at least $10 million, though Ishbia would have to be prepared for a larger payroll in 2023-24, when Saric's contract is up. Siakam will make about $5 million more than Ayton next season.

For the Raptors to make this trade while getting a weaker package of draft picks than what the San Antonio Spurs got for Dejounte Murray would require them to value Ayton as a key part of the return. Although Ayton's development in Phoenix seems to have been stalled, an athletic 7-footer would fill a need in Toronto's slumping defense.

The Raptors also get younger by swapping Siakam, who will turn 29 in April, for the 24-year-old Ayton. And they forestall the possibility of Siakam making an All-NBA team this season and becoming eligible for a supermax extension.

-- Kevin Pelton

Crowder finds a new home, Part 2

Phoenix Suns get: Patrick Beverley, Wenyen Gabriel and Juan Toscano-Anderson
Los Angeles Lakers get: Jae Crowder and Cameron Payne

The Suns are currently getting nothing from Crowder, whom they sent home before the season began. They reportedly would like to trade him, but have no interest in long contracts even when attached to reasonable young talent. Beverley, Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are all on expiring contracts, like Crowder, while Payne still has three years remaining on his deal.

Beverley would replace Payne as the primary backup lead guard behind Chris Paul. Payne has struggled with injuries for the past couple months, as has Paul. Beverley has shown he can coexist with Russell Westbrook, so he should be able to make it work with Paul as well, despite their history. Beverley brings an attitude, and injects grittiness and defense on a teamwide level. Beverley has the second-highest Defensive Real Plus-Minus score among point guards -- the fifth best among guards overall -- and would help give the Suns a defensive edge that they've lacked all season with Crowder out.

Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are long, athletic wing/forward types who have shown they can contribute as rotation role players. With the way that injuries have rocked the Suns this season, healthy role players in the frontcourt provide tangible value as well for a team that still has postseason aspirations.

Beverley is redundant on the Lakers, with both Westbrook and Dennis Schroder playing well and LeBron James as the de facto point guard. Their well-documented need is shooting, and Crowder would immediately fill the glue guy/3-and-D forward role that he has perfected in recent seasons. Crowder has knocked down two 3-pointers per game on average in his past five seasons. When healthy, Payne would also give them 3-point shooting as a backup perimeter guard, and with the Lakers' salary-cap situation, having him signed for an additional two seasons after this one would be a plus for them.

-- Snellings

[Superbone]

Phoenix Suns get: Patrick Beverley, Wenyen Gabriel and Juan Toscano-Anderson

Where can I find this Snellings so I can punch him in the face? Or at least shove him in the back.

[Split T]

Haha, that was definitely the worst one…But I assume he’s just there for salary. We’d cut him for sure

[wpmiller42]

I'm not opposed to the trade with Brooklyn. I think Seth Curry would be helpful here.

I don't like the other two trades. The one with the Lakers is completely non-sensical. The other one completely undervalues Ayton. I know the general consensus here is that he's not playing to his salary-level and is not motivated, but he's not trash or a bust. If you're a team that thinks you know how to unlock 2021-playoff Ayton consistently, that is an NBA All-Star. That's a guy who is a legit #2 on a championship team and could even be a #1 some nights.

Siakam is great and I love the guy, but adding in all those picks is crazy town.

[Split T]

It was only Ayton plus two picks(with one being protected) and 1 swap. I think that’s incredible value…even in your best case scenario you described someone that sounds awfully similar to Pascal…#2 on a contender? I mean he did win a title as arguably a #2. He’s even better now.

[In2ition]

Ayton + 2 1st + a swap seems like an awful lot. F the TWolves for creating such a ridiculous trade value situation. I blame them for screwing everything up all the way back to the KG trade where McHale traded him to Boston and his buddy Ainge.

[In2ition]

I'm cooling on OG too. You would think he would be available more and give you more in terms of rebounds if he is going to be treated like he has Rodman like defense. No wonder they only expect him to camp out in the corner waiting for a kickout pass.

[Superbone]

Haha, that was definitely the worst one…But I assume he’s just there for salary. We’d cut him for sure

I hope we do more than cut him!

[Split T]

Ayton + 2 1st + a swap seems like an awful lot. F the TWolves for creating such a ridiculous trade value situation. I blame them for screwing everything up all the way back to the KG trade where McHale traded him to Boston and his buddy Ainge.

Am I the crazy one? It seems light to me. I’d jump at that offer.

[TOO]

Yes sir, you are the crazy one.

[Split T]

I don’t know how you say no to a Booker/Mikal/CamJ/Siakam core going forward…that’s so much better than what we have right now. 2 1sts isn’t that much to upgrade from Ayton to Siakam. Didn’t know we had so many who still saw Ayton as that valuable.

[Wally_West]

I’m with Split, y’all are wildin. Attaching 3 picks with Ayton is too much but so is 2 picks??? So what’s the limit here? 1 pick? Only 2nd rounders? No picks?

[Wally_West]

Lol