Western Conference Round 1, Game Day: Clippers (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Sun 4/16/23

[Split T]

Ya we can hardly blame the lineup change for this one. Craig was one of our best players. He didn’t really slow Kawhi, but no one did. I’m fine sticking with him though. He’s honestly probably our best catch and shoot guy.

I’d play Okogie more though and I think I’d drop Biz and Ish from the lineup. Shamet kinda has to play with no Payne, but less minutes please.

My big takes:

1. Don’t let Kawhi get to his spots without seeing another defender.
2. Know who to help off of(Westbrook, not Gordon)
3. More Book and KD on ball(especially down the stretch)
4. Need to play with some energy(Okogie maybe?)

[specialsauce]

It destroys what little continuity we have.

Seems a bit dramatic.

Nope.

It was dramatic.

Craig had a good game and I hope he starts again if he plays like that. The real issue was playing Landry Shamet 24 minutes.

The real issue was allowing Head Coach Paul be the #1 option in the fourth. Assistant coach Monty needs to grow a fucking pair and tell Paul to go stand for a corner 3 and let the winners work.

[specialsauce]

This was ALL Monty.

Change The starting lineup on a whim????

KD gets 1 shot the final 6 minutes while CP3 insists on running the show??

Monty needs to stop sucking CP3s dick and start being his own man or get the fuck out.
He played ELEVEN GUYS. THREE CENTERS.

LANDRY SHAMET played 24 minutes. TJ WARREN ZERO!!!!! Okogie played SIX!!!!!!


Wtf you asshole shit coach.

Can't argue with any of this. I didn't understand the lineup change, I certainly didn't get playing so many guys, with Okogie not being one of them. Just baffling decisions by Monty.

Just an unbelievably bad coaching display.

I do not want to see Ish, Jock or Biz on the court unless DA is in foul trouble. Go small ball, squeeze the rotation and roll with TJ//Ross/Craig.

Monty treating game 1 of the playoffs like it’s game 1 of the preseason

[TOO]

This one’s on Monty more than anyone. #FireMonty

I haven’t read any of this thread yet but I bet everyone’s blaming Ayton Ayton Ayton. Lol.

EDIT: Scrolling through I’m glad people are starting to wake up to Monty’s coaching.

Your boy got destroyed on the boards and had more shot attempts than KD. 18 on 16s shot is trash. Don't act like he played well.

[Split T]

Ya I’m fine sticking with Craig in the starting lineup, but I didn’t like any of the Biz or Ish minutes. Biz is just too much of a liability on offense and with the Clippers being a jump shooting team I’m not sure his rim protection is as valuable.

Ish was only out there to guard Kawhi and he didn’t really slow him. His offense isn’t really playable. Jock didn’t impress me either. His offense is better than Biz but not good enough. I didn’t love Ayton tonight, but it’s pretty telling we were way negative when he was on the bench. Told me more about Biz/Jock though.

I’d roll with KD at the 5. I wouldn’t hate Ish getting minutes alongside him to add some size, but I’d probably just go with Craig.

Payne/Okogie/Warren/Craig/KD is a unit I think could do well to start the 2nd Q. I get that LAC plays a big the whole time, but Biz and Jock just aren’t the answer. I also think you’d space Plumlee out. He’d probably be on Okogie or Craig and help on Payne driving to the rim. Easy kick out for a corner 3. If Okogie isn’t hitting, you could run that lineup with Ross or Shamet.

[Split T]

This one’s on Monty more than anyone. #FireMonty

I haven’t read any of this thread yet but I bet everyone’s blaming Ayton Ayton Ayton. Lol.

EDIT: Scrolling through I’m glad people are starting to wake up to Monty’s coaching.

Your boy got destroyed on the boards and had more shot attempts than KD. 18 on 16s shot is trash. Don't act like he played well.

That last minute possession where LAC got like 4 tries was tough. Ayton needs to control the boards.

I think LAC smartly played a let CP3 and Ayton take mid range shots strategy. We can’t just so willingly take those shots. Need to work for something better. That’s just not the shot it was for them last year.

[O_Gardino]

A couple of things:

CP/DA pick and roll at the end of games is what we are going to get until we trade CP or hire a more ballsy coach.
Bench production is going to be a big conversation in this series, but when you build a team around a "big 4", you aren't going to get a ton of bench scoring. We need 90 points from our stars.

Big props to Torrey Craig. He was locked in and just played great on both ends. IMO this was a career game for him.
Big props to Booker. His passion and defense were outstanding.
I thought Jock played well in his short stint. That's a bad matchup for us, but he did what he could.

[Split T]

I’d almost just close with Okogie/Book/Craig/KD/Ayton if CP3 is gonna shoot 2/8. He had wide open looks too. If this is 2021 or 2022, he goes 11/15 and buries them with mid range looks. He’s just not able to do that anymore. Monty absolutely needs to get the ball out of his hands more. Of course I hope this comes back on me and CP3 does in fact go 11/15 tomorrow including like 6/7 on his patented elbow pull-up.

[specialsauce]

I’d almost just close with Okogie/Book/Craig/KD/Ayton if CP3 is gonna shoot 2/8. He had wide open looks too. If this is 2021 or 2022, he goes 11/15 and buries them with mid range looks. He’s just not able to do that anymore. Monty absolutely needs to get the ball out of his hands more. Of course I hope this comes back on me and CP3 does in fact go 11/15 tomorrow including like 6/7 on his patented elbow pull-up.

The thing is, he shouldn’t be in that position. Take the ball out of his hands Monty!! I do not want to rely on CP3 in the playoffs. We’ve seen that tune, and that was before grandpa Paul showed up this season.

Why did we mortgage our entire franchise to then continue using Paul as our #1 option??

This is entirely on Monty Williams. It’s time he stop deferring to coach Paul. Nobody wants to see a Paul/DA show.

[wpmiller42]

I love Monty, but I think it was a complete reach to start Craig over Okogie. Tell me Okogie doesn't get some of those rebounds at the end of the game.

And I think it's just something I've come to accept (but not happy about), but c'mon Ayton take one dribble and initiate some contact at least a couple times...

[Split T]

Okogie’s energy certainly would’ve helped…but Craig was good. Okogie might’ve gotten an extra rebound or 2, but does he shoot 9/12 for 22 points? Doubtful…but I don’t get 24 minutes from Shamet and 6 or 7 from Okogie. That needs to flip. In a game CP3 played 39 minutes, there’s no reason to play Shamet more than 9.

[ShelC]

I don't think it was so much of a reach given TC started like 2/3s of the year. It wasn't a hugely drastic change for us but I would probably go back to Okogie with the starters. He and Craig are pretty interchangeable but I like Okogie's energy with the starters more, especially if his defense can cause some TOs and maybe get Book and KD those easier looks. Craig played well tho and offers a little more offense (which may be more helpful off the bench) but Okogie seems to just make more things happen generally. And Craig's size/defense didn't do a thing to Kawhi.

One thing's for sure tho, less Shamet.

[Split T]

I just worry we’d get bad Craig…he’s much better when he has low responsibility. If Monty is going to play 11 guys we can’t have Craig out there with a mostly bench lineup.

[ShelC]

Was thinking about this last night and it's what I meant when I said it was pretty much KD and Book out there. If they're bringing the ball up instead of CP and initiating offense than CP needs kickouts for 3s. He's gotta be more aggressive too, but he can't be a decoy or just someone standing in the corner.

And closing the game, like others have said, we've got to find the right mix of Book, KD and CP doing their thing. Can't just be CP/DA pick and roll like it was 2 years ago. That's the kind of thing that comes with game experience, so they better improve quickly.

[Wally_West]

By no means was the line up change why we lost. I Just think Monty did Okogie little dirty is all. Dude done everything to be the 5th starter but you gonna send him to the bench? Okay, but why only play him 7mins??? Why set him up to fail by playing him with Ish and Biz and Shamet? Could’ve easily cut Ish minutes and given them to Okogie. You could’ve played Paul and Shamet less and spread out those minutes between Ross and Okogie and wouldn’t have been any worst. I just think Okogie has earned his rotation spot and to cut him to 7mins is pretty shitty.


Not to pile on Shamet but I just don’t even know what he does for us at this point, he definitely can’t fucking shoot. Yeah, sure, he can play decent defense but you can get fantastic defense from Okogie. Maybe a hot take but I’m completely fine with cutting him from the playoff rotation and just give all his minutes to Okogie and Ross. Even with Payne out.

[Wally_West]

There’s a lot different things that contributed to the loss but for me, it comes down to the fact we played like dog shit for most of the first half and went down 16!!!

You didn’t like 34 year old dude KD playing 45mins? Well that fucker had to because WE WERE DOWN 16!!!

Chris Paul, who’s 51, played 39 minutes. Maybe if weren’t down 16 early, Paul could’ve got some rest and maybe he could’ve went 5-9 instead 2-9.


Landry Shamet played 24 minutes! Has nothing to do with my point at all, other than he fucking sucks and can’t shoot.

[Shabazz]

Ya I’m fine sticking with Craig in the starting lineup, but I didn’t like any of the Biz or Ish minutes. Biz is just too much of a liability on offense and with the Clippers being a jump shooting team I’m not sure his rim protection is as valuable.

Ish was only out there to guard Kawhi and he didn’t really slow him. His offense isn’t really playable. Jock didn’t impress me either. His offense is better than Biz but not good enough. I didn’t love Ayton tonight, but it’s pretty telling we were way negative when he was on the bench. Told me more about Biz/Jock though.

I’d roll with KD at the 5. I wouldn’t hate Ish getting minutes alongside him to add some size, but I’d probably just go with Craig.

Payne/Okogie/Warren/Craig/KD is a unit I think could do well to start the 2nd Q. I get that LAC plays a big the whole time, but Biz and Jock just aren’t the answer. I also think you’d space Plumlee out. He’d probably be on Okogie or Craig and help on Payne driving to the rim. Easy kick out for a corner 3. If Okogie isn’t hitting, you could run that lineup with Ross or Shamet.

We played a few minutes with Durant at the 5 and the team played in a way that totally negated the advantages that a 5-out lineup like that provides. It was mostly Durant post ups, which shrinks the floor, rather than spreading the floor and attacking the basket.

I know a lot has been made about the rotations, and it's mostly justifiable, but our offensive scheme and shot distribution were gross. We hit 6 3s! As a team! In the year 2023! Even shooting only 19 is a joke. Down the stretch we were trading Clippers 3s for DA and CP long middies. Booker and Durant are world-class shooters. We should be running sets to get them 8-10 3s each.

[Split T]

Even CP3 is shooting over 50% on catch and shoot 3s. We need to generate more.

I like Monty, I’m not calling for his removal, but he does need to adjust. We stuck with our game plan for 7 games against Dallas and that was a mistake. Can’t do that again

[Superbone]

Ayton not blocking out anybody.

[Superbone]

Great game from Craig but I feel like he would’ve been great regardless if starting or coming off the bench. He is in the role he’s supposed to be in. We were 8-0 with Okogie starting, switching the lineup last second, just seemed insecure on Monty’s part, regardless of the thought behind.

Okogie is a great offensive rebounder and brings intensity, something the “big 4” seem to miss sometimes. Okogie was playing good as a 5th starter, pushing him into a bench role, a role he hasn’t been playing in months, just wasn’t a sound decision to me.

Craig has also really been thriving off the bench lately.

Ultimately, it’s not why we lost though. Or at least it’s not a top 10 reason. Paul’s middy bricks in the 4th were rough. DA was sooo soft on offense. Our offensive scheme was straight out of 2002 - iso heavy and not early enough 3 point attempts. Booker and Durant played too many minutes and, possibly related, were too passive in the 4th. Monty’s rotations were weak and the bench gave us zippo.

The tale of two centers. Zubac seeking contact and moving toward the hoop on offense. Ayton avoiding contact and moving away from the hoop on offense.