Western Conference Round 1, Game Day: Clippers (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Sun 4/16/23

[Flagrant Fowl]

I promise, I'm not picking on you In2...

I think that blame can go all around, including James Jones for what he didn't do in the off-season and before the trade deadline. He needed to upgrade the backup PG position and he crapped the bed. Not trading Jae before Brooklyn insisted on him being in the trade was another bungle, as they could have gotten something useful.

Waiting on the Nets/Kyrie/Durant disrupted pretty much everything related to shaping the roster via trade. It's entirely possible the incoming money on an earlier Crowder trade would've complicated the KD deal.

We knew Monty wasn't going to make adjustments from the last 2 season playoffs, so don't count me in on one that thinks he's going to figure out any possible counters that Lue makes.

Monty tried to go 4D chess and adjust the scheme before the game even started, and I'm not talking about starting Craig over Okogie. I went back and watched most of the game. They didn't run a lot of their base actions early in the game. I'm sure they prepared for this as a team in the week prior but, for whatever reason, couldn't execute it early. The defensive focus was also shitty early on. Just a terrible start all around from everyone.

For most of the end of the game, the Clippers just wanted it more and were coming from all angles to get rebounds and find the open shooter. Kawhi played great, Zubac was eating Ayton alive on the boards, and no one could keep Westbrook off the boards.

Suns took the momentum in the third only to let it slip away before the end of the quarter, but the Clippers had another gear in the 4th quarter. This is when Monty screwed up by not having Okogie in the game. Craig is a good enough rebounder, but Okogie is quicker to loose balls and that was as much of the issue as not getting the ball off of the rim. That's when his energy was needed.

I still don't understand the experimenting in a game 1 playoff series. I don't understand why Monty went with a 11 man rotation, and I don't understand why KD only took 1 shot in the last 6 minutes.

It wasn't really an 11 man rotation. Ross played 4 minutes and was yanked after repeatedly getting lost on defense. We've seen Monty do that with him every game. He switched from Biz to Jock in the second half probably because he was afraid of the Clippers putting Biz on the foul line. I think that was a good adjustment. So now we're down to 9 guys, which is probably ideal for a playoff game. I really hope Cam Panye comes back because he's badly needed with the bench and Booker line up.

KD off of the ball was annoying, but they were covering him with Kawhi late. Of course we want to see the action run through KD, but I can see why they took the path of least resistance now. Unfortunately, the Paul/Ayton PnR hasn't hit right for a while now, it's much more of a mixed bag than previous seasons.

[Shabazz]

Unfortunately, the Paul/Ayton PnR hasn't hit right for a while now, it's much more of a mixed bag than previous seasons.

Yep. Because both players are worse than they were last season.

[Split T]

The easiest change is to drop the Ish minutes. I don’t hate Ish, but he’s not a playoff rotation guy. He was on a 2-way for a reason. He’s a 12-13th man.

The other big change is never go with a 4 bench lineup. And if you do go to a 3 bench lineup, the 3 guys better not be some combination of Biz, Jock, Ish, Craig, Okogie, or Shamet. Ross, Warren, or Payne need to be out there. They will just blitz whoever we left out there(Book or KD) and none of those guys I mentioned can do anything to stop it.

[Superbone]

The easiest change is to drop the Ish minutes. I don’t hate Ish, but he’s not a playoff rotation guy. He was on a 2-way for a reason. He’s a 12-13th man.

The other big change is never go with a 4 bench lineup. And if you do go to a 3 bench lineup, the 3 guys better not be some combination of Biz, Jock, Ish, Craig, Okogie, or Shamet. Ross, Warren, or Payne need to be out there. They will just blitz whoever we left out there(Book or KD) and none of those guys I mentioned can do anything to stop it.

If he had hit just one three, it would have made a big difference. But he didn't.

[In2ition]

I promise, I'm not picking on you In2...

I think that blame can go all around, including James Jones for what he didn't do in the off-season and before the trade deadline. He needed to upgrade the backup PG position and he crapped the bed. Not trading Jae before Brooklyn insisted on him being in the trade was another bungle, as they could have gotten something useful.

Waiting on the Nets/Kyrie/Durant disrupted pretty much everything related to shaping the roster via trade. It's entirely possible the incoming money on an earlier Crowder trade would've complicated the KD deal.

We knew Monty wasn't going to make adjustments from the last 2 season playoffs, so don't count me in on one that thinks he's going to figure out any possible counters that Lue makes.

Monty tried to go 4D chess and adjust the scheme before the game even started, and I'm not talking about starting Craig over Okogie. I went back and watched most of the game. They didn't run a lot of their base actions early in the game. I'm sure they prepared for this as a team in the week prior but, for whatever reason, couldn't execute it early. The defensive focus was also shitty early on. Just a terrible start all around from everyone.

For most of the end of the game, the Clippers just wanted it more and were coming from all angles to get rebounds and find the open shooter. Kawhi played great, Zubac was eating Ayton alive on the boards, and no one could keep Westbrook off the boards.

Suns took the momentum in the third only to let it slip away before the end of the quarter, but the Clippers had another gear in the 4th quarter. This is when Monty screwed up by not having Okogie in the game. Craig is a good enough rebounder, but Okogie is quicker to loose balls and that was as much of the issue as not getting the ball off of the rim. That's when his energy was needed.

I still don't understand the experimenting in a game 1 playoff series. I don't understand why Monty went with a 11 man rotation, and I don't understand why KD only took 1 shot in the last 6 minutes.

It wasn't really an 11 man rotation. Ross played 4 minutes and was yanked after repeatedly getting lost on defense. We've seen Monty do that with him every game. He switched from Biz to Jock in the second half probably because he was afraid of the Clippers putting Biz on the foul line. I think that was a good adjustment. So now we're down to 9 guys, which is probably ideal for a playoff game. I really hope Cam Panye comes back because he's badly needed with the bench and Booker line up.

KD off of the ball was annoying, but they were covering him with Kawhi late. Of course we want to see the action run through KD, but I can see why they took the path of least resistance now. Unfortunately, the Paul/Ayton PnR hasn't hit right for a while now, it's much more of a mixed bag than previous seasons.

It's all good. I concede that you make some good points. As far as the Crowder trade, I admit that I'm not sure how a prior Crowder trade would complicate the money in the KD trade. How would that be the case?

I saw a tweet that they didn't run any Spain or double drag in game 1. I'm do not know for certain this is true. Can anyone confirm? Aren't these staples of the Suns offense?

After the Suns clawed back into the game and took the lead and built it to 7-9 points, Monty immediately forfeited it to another deficit with his rotations and decisions of who should be on the floor. Ross hasn't been good in his rotations the entire time he's been with the Suns, so it's probably more surprising that Monty thought that would change magically in the playoffs. I'd do the same thing as Lue would, if the Suns played Biz. His ft shooting is beyond bad, and I'm not bragging, but I think I could shoot better from the line while blindfolded.

I also hope that Payne comes back, but what is going on with this guy? Why can't he ever stay healthy? Not picking Haliburton will go down as one of the mortal sins that Jones made.

Perhaps we aren't as annoyed with what happened if Ayton and Paul PnR was automatic and didn't miss 5 straight shots(that I remember) down the stretch. What happened to Paul, where those middies at the end of the game were absolute money?

I'm a little more confident that things get worked out for the better tonight, but we also aren't going to see a Book 4 steal, 4 block game again either.

[Split T]

Lowe said we ran 1 Spain pick and roll(Booker missed an open 3). I don’t recall seeing any double drag

[Superbone]

I also hope that Payne comes back, but what is going on with this guy? Why can't he ever stay healthy? Not picking Haliburton will go down as one of the mortal sins that Jones made.

Watching these games, I see all these guys we could have and should have drafted. Fox, Sabonis, Brunson, JJJ... Who am I missing (other than Haliburton mentioned above)?

[In2ition]

I also hope that Payne comes back, but what is going on with this guy? Why can't he ever stay healthy? Not picking Haliburton will go down as one of the mortal sins that Jones made.

Watching these games, I see all these guys we could have and should have drafted. Fox, Sabonis, Brunson, JJJ... Who am I missing (other than Haliburton mentioned above)?

Bane, Herb Jones, Siakam, Giannis, Jokic, Gobert...

[Superbone]

I also hope that Payne comes back, but what is going on with this guy? Why can't he ever stay healthy? Not picking Haliburton will go down as one of the mortal sins that Jones made.

Watching these games, I see all these guys we could have and should have drafted. Fox, Sabonis, Brunson, JJJ... Who am I missing (other than Haliburton mentioned above)?

Bane, Herb Jones, Siakam, Giannis, Jokic, Gobert...

Maybe. A lot of those are reaches. All the guys I mentioned were talked up here and the community wanted to pick. Well, maybe except for JJJ over Ayton. We were all only debating DA versus Doncic. And Fox was more evenly debated along with Tatum (already gone), Jackson and Issac. And we really needed a PG at the time too. smh. (Damn you to hell, McD!!!)

[Mori Chu]

I also hope that Payne comes back, but what is going on with this guy? Why can't he ever stay healthy? Not picking Haliburton will go down as one of the mortal sins that Jones made.

Watching these games, I see all these guys we could have and should have drafted. Fox, Sabonis, Brunson, JJJ... Who am I missing (other than Haliburton mentioned above)?

I totally feel this, too. Watching all these guys who easily could have been Suns thrive on other teams. And some guys we could have had in Ayton trades we chose not to make. It's tough. It kind of feels like the late 2000s where we had a really good team, but you could feel that the cumulative asset mismanagement had depleted our depth and our future to the point that we might not be able to get over the hump.

[In2ition]

I also hope that Payne comes back, but what is going on with this guy? Why can't he ever stay healthy? Not picking Haliburton will go down as one of the mortal sins that Jones made.

Watching these games, I see all these guys we could have and should have drafted. Fox, Sabonis, Brunson, JJJ... Who am I missing (other than Haliburton mentioned above)?

I totally feel this, too. Watching all these guys who easily could have been Suns thrive on other teams. And some guys we could have had in Ayton trades we chose not to make. It's tough. It kind of feels like the late 2000s where we had a really good team, but you could feel that the cumulative asset mismanagement had depleted our depth and our future to the point that we might not be able to get over the hump.

It absolutely feels like that. Before it was Sarver that didn't like draft picks, allegedly. Now, it's JJ that doesn't like them. We are doomed to repeat the sins of the past, it seems.

[JeremyG]

It destroys what little continuity we have.

Seems a bit dramatic.

Nope.

It was dramatic.

Craig had a good game and I hope he starts again if he plays like that. The real issue was playing Landry Shamet 24 minutes.

Yes by all means let's keep doing what didn't work. Craig had the best game he's going to have and we still lost.

[JeremyG]

This one’s on Monty more than anyone. #FireMonty

I haven’t read any of this thread yet but I bet everyone’s blaming Ayton Ayton Ayton. Lol.

EDIT: Scrolling through I’m glad people are starting to wake up to Monty’s coaching.

Your boy got destroyed on the boards and had more shot attempts than KD. 18 on 16s shot is trash. Don't act like he played well.

First of all, DA should never have more shot attempts than KD. Period. Utterly insane coaching.

I didn't "act like" anything. I said it's on Monty more than anyone. Yes DA needs to be better on the boards, although those 3 offensive rebounds at the end were mostly not his fault.

But 50% shooting is not "trash," especially with all of the long jumpers he was shooting. Most of his shots should be closer to the rim, though. But again that could be the coaching staff telling him to take those jumpers/middies when he's left open--we don't know.

People are complaining about the Paul/Ayton two-man game in the 4th (yes, the ball should be in KD's hands a lot more), but it was Paul who was 0-4 in the 4th, Ayton was 3-6 and made his last two attempts in clutch time. As fas as assigning blame, Ayton is nowhere near the top of the list.

[JeremyG]

This one’s on Monty more than anyone. #FireMonty

I haven’t read any of this thread yet but I bet everyone’s blaming Ayton Ayton Ayton. Lol.

EDIT: Scrolling through I’m glad people are starting to wake up to Monty’s coaching.

Your boy got destroyed on the boards and had more shot attempts than KD. 18 on 16s shot is trash. Don't act like he played well.

That last minute possession where LAC got like 4 tries was tough. Ayton needs to control the boards.

I think LAC smartly played a let CP3 and Ayton take mid range shots strategy. We can’t just so willingly take those shots. Need to work for something better. That’s just not the shot it was for them last year.

Let's take a look and see what happened on those 3 offensive rebounds:

First one: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=& ... 20Def%3A5)

Ayton blocks out Zubac and keeps him from getting the board, but Booker lost track of Westbrook and let him go in for the rebound.

Secone one: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=& ... %20Rebound

Again, Ayton blocks out Zubac and the ball goes off the other side of the rim, with Paul and Westbrook reaching for it. Ayton may have thought it was going off Paul, but he should have let it go out of bounds. Instead, Ayton reached out for it, which was a mistake, since Westbrook had tipped it.

Third one: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=& ... %20Rebound

Here Ayton pushes Zubac under the hoop, then jumps for the board while Zubac holds down his left arm. He eventually gets his left arm free and it looks like he does try to go up with both hands but either he or a Clipper tips it off the glass. Still, Ayton would have gotten to it if Craig had just continued to block out Leonard, instead of wanting to go get the ball himself. Same problem we had at the end of a game earlier in the season--Craig getting in Ayton's way like always. Another reason to play Okogie instead of Craig.

[TOO]

It's always someone else.

[Shabazz]

I also hope that Payne comes back, but what is going on with this guy? Why can't he ever stay healthy? Not picking Haliburton will go down as one of the mortal sins that Jones made.

Watching these games, I see all these guys we could have and should have drafted. Fox, Sabonis, Brunson, JJJ... Who am I missing (other than Haliburton mentioned above)?

Bane, Herb Jones, Siakam, Giannis, Jokic, Gobert...

Maxey's been great.

[Split T]

This one’s on Monty more than anyone. #FireMonty

I haven’t read any of this thread yet but I bet everyone’s blaming Ayton Ayton Ayton. Lol.

EDIT: Scrolling through I’m glad people are starting to wake up to Monty’s coaching.

Your boy got destroyed on the boards and had more shot attempts than KD. 18 on 16s shot is trash. Don't act like he played well.

That last minute possession where LAC got like 4 tries was tough. Ayton needs to control the boards.

I think LAC smartly played a let CP3 and Ayton take mid range shots strategy. We can’t just so willingly take those shots. Need to work for something better. That’s just not the shot it was for them last year.

Let's take a look and see what happened on those 3 offensive rebounds:

First one: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=& ... 20Def%3A5)

Ayton blocks out Zubac and keeps him from getting the board, but Booker lost track of Westbrook and let him go in for the rebound.

Secone one: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=& ... %20Rebound

Again, Ayton blocks out Zubac and the ball goes off the other side of the rim, with Paul and Westbrook reaching for it. Ayton may have thought it was going off Paul, but he should have let it go out of bounds. Instead, Ayton reached out for it, which was a mistake, since Westbrook had tipped it.

Third one: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=& ... %20Rebound

Here Ayton pushes Zubac under the hoop, then jumps for the board while Zubac holds down his left arm. He eventually gets his left arm free and it looks like he does try to go up with both hands but either he or a Clipper tips it off the glass. Still, Ayton would have gotten to it if Craig had just continued to block out Leonard, instead of wanting to go get the ball himself. Same problem we had at the end of a game earlier in the season--Craig getting in Ayton's way like always. Another reason to play Okogie instead of Craig.

I’m not interested in excuses. Zubac had 15 rebounds to Ayton’s 8. Paul had more than Ayton. Westbrook missed 16 shots himself. There were rebounds to be had. You can always go through and find some sort of excuse, what I’m looking for is Ayton to make a play. The clippers were making plays. Ayton didn’t. He’s a max player, the expectation can’t just be for him not to mess up. He needs to make things happen.

He’s not my biggest complaint from this game. He’s probably 3rd or 4th, but he was on the negative side of the equation for me.

Negatives:
1. Monty(I’ll give you this one, I did not think Monty was good. Rotations and strategy sucked.
2. CP3 - he’s gotta be able to hit those shots or get the team into a different set to feature KD/Book
3. Ayton - I need more energy and needs to make things happen. Too many mid range and long 2s. He needs to be getting closer to the rim and getting 15ish boards.
4. Bench - Think Monty set them up for failure, but none of them did anything either.

Positives:
1. Craig - played over his head and did everything asked of him.
2. KD - rough start, but was great final 3/4
3. Book - defensively he had a great game. Solid on O

That’s it for me.

[Shabazz]

This one’s on Monty more than anyone. #FireMonty

I haven’t read any of this thread yet but I bet everyone’s blaming Ayton Ayton Ayton. Lol.

EDIT: Scrolling through I’m glad people are starting to wake up to Monty’s coaching.

Your boy got destroyed on the boards and had more shot attempts than KD. 18 on 16s shot is trash. Don't act like he played well.

That last minute possession where LAC got like 4 tries was tough. Ayton needs to control the boards.

I think LAC smartly played a let CP3 and Ayton take mid range shots strategy. We can’t just so willingly take those shots. Need to work for something better. That’s just not the shot it was for them last year.

Let's take a look and see what happened on those 3 offensive rebounds:

First one: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=& ... 20Def%3A5)

Ayton blocks out Zubac and keeps him from getting the board, but Booker lost track of Westbrook and let him go in for the rebound.

Secone one: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=& ... %20Rebound

Again, Ayton blocks out Zubac and the ball goes off the other side of the rim, with Paul and Westbrook reaching for it. Ayton may have thought it was going off Paul, but he should have let it go out of bounds. Instead, Ayton reached out for it, which was a mistake, since Westbrook had tipped it.

Third one: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=& ... %20Rebound

Here Ayton pushes Zubac under the hoop, then jumps for the board while Zubac holds down his left arm. He eventually gets his left arm free and it looks like he does try to go up with both hands but either he or a Clipper tips it off the glass. Still, Ayton would have gotten to it if Craig had just continued to block out Leonard, instead of wanting to go get the ball himself. Same problem we had at the end of a game earlier in the season--Craig getting in Ayton's way like always. Another reason to play Okogie instead of Craig.

[TOO]

It's on Monty, Zubac rebounds with too much effort, Ayton is saving himself for the postseason.

[Flagrant Fowl]

It destroys what little continuity we have.

Seems a bit dramatic.

Nope.

It was dramatic.

Craig had a good game and I hope he starts again if he plays like that. The real issue was playing Landry Shamet 24 minutes.

Yes by all means let's keep doing what didn't work. Craig had the best game he's going to have and we still lost.

They basically lost the game by one possession. A few made FT's (Booker...) or Paul/Ayton hits a mid range shot and the Suns likely would've won.

Starting Craig worked as well as it ever could've. You seem to be too dug in on the Monty stuff to give him even the slightest bit of credit.