Western Conference Round 2, Game 6: Suns (2-3) @ Nuggets (3-2), Thu 5/11/23

[JeremyG]

I could see Ayton for Kyrie if that’s the direction they want to go.

But if the new regime does want to keep Ayton, they better actually involve him in the offense, unlike Monty. You can’t pay a player the max and not utilize and develop his offensive abilities. I don’t think Ayton minds being a third option behind Book and KD, I just think he wants to actually be the third option, not just an afterthought or a “bailout” option. No reason we can’t have three 20+ ppg scorers, especially in today’s NBA.

How about Ayton develops/improves himself? Stop blaming coaching for all of his short comings? Coaching can't make him play harder, you either hustle or you don't.

Maybe not but coaching can certainly un-motivate him to play harder. He was playing for a coach who literally did not want him on the roster.

So fuck your teammates then? Even worse.

I’m not saying he was consciously not playing hard, but it’s certainly natural to not be your best when your coach doesn’t believe in you. Should he have always given his best effort anyway? Yes. Was the rocky relationship with the coach at least partially a factor? I believe so.

[specialsauce]

I could see Ayton for Kyrie if that’s the direction they want to go.

But if the new regime does want to keep Ayton, they better actually involve him in the offense, unlike Monty. You can’t pay a player the max and not utilize and develop his offensive abilities. I don’t think Ayton minds being a third option behind Book and KD, I just think he wants to actually be the third option, not just an afterthought or a “bailout” option. No reason we can’t have three 20+ ppg scorers, especially in today’s NBA.

How about Ayton develops/improves himself? Stop blaming coaching for all of his short comings? Coaching can't make him play harder, you either hustle or you don't.

Maybe not but coaching can certainly un-motivate him to play harder. He was playing for a coach who literally did not want him on the roster.

Listen to how pathetic that sounds about a grown ass man

[specialsauce]

How about Ayton develops/improves himself? Stop blaming coaching for all of his short comings? Coaching can't make him play harder, you either hustle or you don't.

Maybe not but coaching can certainly un-motivate him to play harder. He was playing for a coach who literally did not want him on the roster.

So fuck your teammates then? Even worse.

Name a skill Ayton has developed or improved upon in his tenure. He loved some of easier mannered teammates. Everything else was energy put into him to stay locked in by the whole team.

Cleaning his bong?

Won a championship in nba2k23 and was season/finals mvp?

1 too many hits.

[rhylek]

Ok, I waited till now to give my take on Ayton because there is sooooo much talk about him.

For me, he's a gifted guy who started basketball late because he was tall and his momma saw the opportunity to make money.
So, he's less expermiented than your average guy, he lacks some basketball instincts too. Could he get it? Maybe. Some guys just need a "declic", once they get it, they beast (I'm like that, I can relate). Until then, he needs to be micromanaged. That's why getting KD at this time of the year was just a disaster for him. Book, KD, CP are ballers, they can adapt on the fly. Not Ayton. He starts overthinking and then he's late on plays, etc.

Starting ball late, playing against far less gifted competition, being too genuine, he doesn't know how to improve by himself (and maybe thinks he doesn't need to). Not being utilized the way he thinks he should, while watching some players on the floor that shouldn't get time might be demotivating for him. But you can't deny he plays his role (even if it's setting screen, and never get the ball) without pouting ala Marion. He sure has his flaws, and we overanalyze them. But that's the case of every player, and every fanbase.

The thing is, the Suns paid the price to keep him, and when you spend a lot of money on something/someone, you take care of it, you do what's best to bear fruit. And with Ayton, I think you have to be in his ear, telling him to do things you don't have to tell to guys like Book for example. Oblige him to take a personal coach for the summer, give him a precise agenda. He's a good boy, he'll do it. I really wonder if the staff thought about that or if they think he will do it all by himself.

That's why I'm willing to give him another chance. There's too much untaped potential, even if he's never a natural baller. He's a willing learner.
And I'd be really disapointed if the declic happens once he leaves us. A change of scenery is not necessary, I don't think there's turmoil with his teammates. But he's a max player, if he needs a babysitter to be worth his contract, so be it, maximize your investment.

That was my two pence.

[Nodack]

There is no excuse for consistent lack of effort. Booker-Max player who deserves the max. Ayton-Max player who doesn’t deserve the max. He is taking up space and money we could use on players who give a rats ass and show up.

[rhylek]

There is no excuse for consistent lack of effort. Booker-Max player who deserves the max. Ayton-Max player who doesn’t deserve the max. He is taking up space and money we could use on players who give a rats ass and show up.

Not trying to excuse him, but wondering what's the explanation (in the end, we're not in the confidence and are all guessing).
And, most of all, how to get the best of him as a sun.

[Superbone]

There is no excuse for consistent lack of effort. Booker-Max player who deserves the max. Ayton-Max player who doesn’t deserve the max. He is taking up space and money we could use on players who give a rats ass and show up.

Not trying to excuse him, but wondering what's the explanation (in the end, we're not in the confidence and are all guessing).
And, most of all, how to get the best of him as a sun.

I'd like to think that he could change but it reminds of an alcoholic, thinking they'll eventually change. (Hint: They don't. I was married to one.)

Not sure what your mean by "declic". Maybe click? As when things might suddenly come together and possibly click for him?

[rhylek]

There is no excuse for consistent lack of effort. Booker-Max player who deserves the max. Ayton-Max player who doesn’t deserve the max. He is taking up space and money we could use on players who give a rats ass and show up.

Not trying to excuse him, but wondering what's the explanation (in the end, we're not in the confidence and are all guessing).
And, most of all, how to get the best of him as a sun.

I'd like to think that he could change but it reminds of an alcoholic, thinking they'll eventually change. (Hint: They don't. I was married to one.)

Not sure what your mean by "declic". Maybe click? As when things might suddenly come together and possibly click for him?

Yes, sorry I thought the word was used in english too