Monty Williams
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Re: Monty Williams
I guess that takes Detroit off the table as a potential landing spot for Ayton!
Re: Monty Williams
It's Detroit. They don't have a choice if that want to attract a decent coach.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
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- Posts: 506
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:39 am
Re: Monty Williams
Spot on. I think we began to see cracks in that culture following Monty's bust up with Ayton in game 7 of the Mavs series and the issue with Crowder over the summer that seemed to come out of nowhere. What had looked like a really tight group that would run through walls for each other had started to fray and I don't think Monty was ever able to galvanise them in the same way he had previously. Moving the twins was the final nail in the coffinINFORMER wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 10:47 amThe Suns had a culture on and off the court that was unique and an advantage over their opponent. A lot of that left with trading of the twins. It's just about gone with the firing of Monty, but even if he had been retained, it still wouldn't have been enough.
There were basketball factors that kept that culture from being enough, but Jones never really addressed any of them.
The current team is very different. It's about the brilliance of Book and Durant, and trying to surround with a enough talent to win it all while having very few resources. I'm not sure how valuable Monty is in that type of team building.
Moreover, I don't know if James Jones is an asset in that type of building. Jones isn't going to run things like Miami or Toronto, looking for undrafted free agents, using the g league, maximizing untapped potential, developing players, etc. You're not going to draft a Fred VanVleet and develop him; you're not going to find a Gabe Vincent or Max Strus. Jones doesn't have the patience or foresight to pull that stuff off.
Re: Monty Williams
Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 10:06 pmAnd the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.
- virtual9mm
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Re: Monty Williams
It frayed earlier, definitely earlier in the Dallas collapse. Something happened towards the end of the regular season.SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:05 pmSpot on. I think we began to see cracks in that culture following Monty's bust up with Ayton in game 7 of the Mavs series and the issue with Crowder over the summer that seemed to come out of nowhere. What had looked like a really tight group that would run through walls for each other had started to fray and I don't think Monty was ever able to galvanise them in the same way he had previously. Moving the twins was the final nail in the coffinINFORMER wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 10:47 amThe Suns had a culture on and off the court that was unique and an advantage over their opponent. A lot of that left with trading of the twins. It's just about gone with the firing of Monty, but even if he had been retained, it still wouldn't have been enough.
There were basketball factors that kept that culture from being enough, but Jones never really addressed any of them.
The current team is very different. It's about the brilliance of Book and Durant, and trying to surround with a enough talent to win it all while having very few resources. I'm not sure how valuable Monty is in that type of team building.
Moreover, I don't know if James Jones is an asset in that type of building. Jones isn't going to run things like Miami or Toronto, looking for undrafted free agents, using the g league, maximizing untapped potential, developing players, etc. You're not going to draft a Fred VanVleet and develop him; you're not going to find a Gabe Vincent or Max Strus. Jones doesn't have the patience or foresight to pull that stuff off.
- virtual9mm
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Re: Monty Williams
Proven ability to turn around a team. He'll earn a paycheck. Maybe not THAT one. Wish him luck!
Re: Monty Williams
He'll be great for Detroit and is better for them now than the Suns. Whether whoever we get will be better for us now than Monty would have been is the very key question.
Re: Monty Williams
Landry, on the other hand. Welcome to East Lansing!SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 10:49 pmI guess that takes Detroit off the table as a potential landing spot for Ayton!
Re: Monty Williams
Has it been confirmed yet whether Monty's daughter is moving to Detroit?Shabazz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:10 amLandry, on the other hand. Welcome to East Lansing!SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 10:49 pmI guess that takes Detroit off the table as a potential landing spot for Ayton!
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Re: Monty Williams
I’d only count 1 flameoutTOO wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:22 pmDon't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 10:06 pmAnd the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.
- specialsauce
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Re: Monty Williams
Are you too drunk to remember the other two?
Re: Monty Williams
You're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.
Re: Monty Williams
And now we know the answer, it turns out that yes Monty did have the offsetting clause in his contract:JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:51 pmI don't think there's a scenario where the Suns would be paying a portion of his new salary (b). I don't know if this is the norm in the NBA, but sometimes a contract will have a clause that if a coach has remaining years but gets a new job, then they would only have to pay that coach the difference in salaries (meaning, if the new contract is for less money it would offset what the old team owes). So, in that case, the $8M would come from the Pistons and the Suns would not have to pay anything. If the Pistons were offering $4M, then the Suns would owe $1M in salary.Mori Chu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:38 pmIf a fired coach like Monty who had years left on his contract takes a new job, does he get both paychecks? Or does the old contract offset the new one?
Example: Suppose Monty was under contract for 2023-24 by the Suns for $5m. Then he signs a new contract with the Pistons for $8m. Which of the following is true? (a) Monty gets both paychecks, for a total of $13m for 2023-24. (b) Monty gets $8m total, $5m of which is paid by the Suns and $3m of which is paid by the Pistons?
(By the way, it's actually $7M for the next three years that the Suns owe Williams.)
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
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The Dallas one was the real embarrassing one. We lost to a lesser team and didn’t bother to even show up to a few games.
Denver is somewhere in between. I just think we ran out of players. I didn’t like game 6 obviously, but looking back I’ve softened on that loss. Denver was just a better team. Booker went insane and won us 2 games by himself basically(KD did help a bit) and then Booker came back to earth and we had no chance.
The way we lost in game 6 matters too, but almost our entire deficit can be explained by a bad 5 minute stretch where we got outscored 25-2. Took a 24-21 lead and turned it into a 46-26 deficit. I’d blame Monty for that more if he had better options. It’s not completely his fault he had to play Biyombo, Ross, etc.
Combine that with the fact that Denver clearly looks like the best team and I can forgive it a little. Don’t like the way we lost, but again, it’s not as bad as it seems when you look closely and we were outmatched anyways.
Re: Monty Williams
I’m not really sure how you can consider the Milwaukee loss a flameout. It sucked to lose 4 straight, but we were in every game. They fought hard.specialsauce wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:23 amAre you too drunk to remember the other two?
The Dallas one was the real embarrassing one. We lost to a lesser team and didn’t bother to even show up to a few games.
Denver is somewhere in between. I just think we ran out of players. I didn’t like game 6 obviously, but looking back I’ve softened on that loss. Denver was just a better team. Booker went insane and won us 2 games by himself basically(KD did help a bit) and then Booker came back to earth and we had no chance.
The way we lost in game 6 matters too, but almost our entire deficit can be explained by a bad 5 minute stretch where we got outscored 25-2. Took a 24-21 lead and turned it into a 46-26 deficit. I’d blame Monty for that more if he had better options. It’s not completely his fault he had to play Biyombo, Ross, etc.
Combine that with the fact that Denver clearly looks like the best team and I can forgive it a little. Don’t like the way we lost, but again, it’s not as bad as it seems when you look closely and we were outmatched anyways.
Re: Monty Williams
For the record, we didn't go out with a whimper the first year. All games were close.TOO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:29 amYou're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
Re: Monty Williams
Lost 4 straight games, close or not, that's a whimper to me.Superbone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:47 amFor the record, we didn't go out with a whimper the first year. All games were close.
Re: Monty Williams
OK, but that's not the definition of the word. Agree to disagree. With everyone.TOO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:00 amLost 4 straight games, close or not, that's a whimper to me.Superbone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:47 amFor the record, we didn't go out with a whimper the first year. All games were close.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
Re: Monty Williams
Going up 2-0 and then losing 4 straight is very much on the coach. I don’t remember ever losing 4 straight games in the playoffs. Have we ever done it in any other series in franchise history?
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
Re: Monty Williams
And I don't think he would disagree with you.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
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Re: Monty Williams
I think losing Saric impacted that series more than was realized at the time.