All Things Ayton

[Mori Chu]

Yeah, If I could undo the KD trade, I absolutely would. I just don't think we have nearly as many ways of assembling a contender with so many assets lost. And Bridges is going to be good for a decade to come, while KD likely has 1-2 great years left at most.

[SunsSince92]

Whether we want to admit it or not, the Durant we acquired isn't playing at the same level that he was when he was at Golden State as age and injuries have taken their toll.

I don't think that is true. I think people just overrated Durant and fixate on how great his numbers look instead of looking at the results. He was a big part of OKC giving up their 3-1 lead to Golden State. It was early in his career, his finals appearance with OKC was certainly hurt by Playoff Harden, but he didn't do much to overcome it.

Golden State was the perfect situation for him, where he could just be a hired gun and Steph and Klay could take heat off of him.

Don't get me wrong; he is an all-time great. But I think the level of contention he brings to a team isn't as high as some believed.

Maybe I'm wrong but assuming he makes it through a whole season without getting injured ( big assumption) I'm just not confident in his ability at 35 to lead a team to a championship.

Well I think that is Booker's job, and KD's job is to help Booker. It could work; I just don't think it has a good chance to.

Yeah, looking at his stats for the GSW years, his averages are broadly similar to his stats for the past couple of years. As you say perhaps there has been a tendency for people/media to overrate him.

I disagree with your point on Booker though. Durant is an all time great and a two time champion, it's on him to lead the team and Book to support him. I actually think him being deferential to Booker hurt us during the playoffs and is something we collectively called him out on.

[INFORMER]

I disagree with your point on Booker though. Durant is an all time great and a two time champion, it's on him to lead the team and Book to support him. I actually think him being deferential to Booker hurt us during the playoffs and is something we collectively called him out on.

Well I think you are talking about two different things. One, KD isn't a leader. But that doesn't mean he has to sacrifice touches or stop being aggressive. There are more than enough shots for him and Devin to get theirs without either needing to hold back. Also, I don't think Durant was deferential to Devin; I think he deferred to the entire team. He would pass up shots on possessions that ended with Landry Shamet, Torrey Craig, and Terrence Ross taking the final shot. That is terrible.

Another minor, slightly unrelated point: KD needs to get his 3-point shooting philosophy adjusted. He needs to realize the problem isn't the number of threes he takes, it's the type of threes. He seemed very willing to take pull-up contested 3s, but when the ball was swung to him, he would attack the close out for a midrange jumper instead of just shooting the open 3. I think that needs to change.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

The AzCentral article on Ayton did a good take on the two sides of the Ayton issue...

Ayton...Should He Stay or Should He Go?

[Superbone]

The AzCentral article on Ayton did a good take on the two sides of the Ayton issue...

Ayton...Should He Stay or Should He Go?

Those who love him really, really love him and believe the Suns aren’t utilizing him enough.

Those who don’t believe Ayton lacks the dog and motor to ever become a great player.

For every person who thinks Phoenix should trade him this summer, there’s another who believes the team needs to keep the big man and feature him more.

Ha ha! 50/50? Really? So it's only here that it's 99/1?

[Mori Chu]

For every person who thinks Phoenix should trade him this summer, there’s another who believes the team needs to keep the big man and feature him more.

Ha ha! 50/50? Really? So it's only here that it's 99/1?

The article fails to mention that in every case, the "another who believes the team needs to keep the big man" is just JeremyG.

[JeremyG]

The AzCentral article on Ayton did a good take on the two sides of the Ayton issue...

Ayton...Should He Stay or Should He Go?

Those who love him really, really love him and believe the Suns aren’t utilizing him enough.

Those who don’t believe Ayton lacks the dog and motor to ever become a great player.

For every person who thinks Phoenix should trade him this summer, there’s another who believes the team needs to keep the big man and feature him more.

Ha ha! 50/50? Really? So it's only here that it's 99/1?

That is, in fact, close to reality, yes. Take a look at Twitter or other online discussion sites.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

For every person who thinks Phoenix should trade him this summer, there’s another who believes the team needs to keep the big man and feature him more.

Ha ha! 50/50? Really? So it's only here that it's 99/1?

The article fails to mention that in every case, the "another who believes the team needs to keep the big man" is just JeremyG.

[Split T]

This poll did surprise me in that 36% want to keep Ayton.

[Superbone]

I see similar splits to here over at the Arizona Sports Fans Network Suns forum. Might lean heavier to keep him for UofA grads.

[SunsSince92]

I disagree with your point on Booker though. Durant is an all time great and a two time champion, it's on him to lead the team and Book to support him. I actually think him being deferential to Booker hurt us during the playoffs and is something we collectively called him out on.

Also, I don't think Durant was deferential to Devin; I think he deferred to the entire team. He would pass up shots on possessions that ended with Landry Shamet, Torrey Craig, and Terrence Ross taking the final shot. That is terrible.

Another minor, slightly unrelated point: KD needs to get his 3-point shooting philosophy adjusted. He needs to realize the problem isn't the number of threes he takes, it's the type of threes. He seemed very willing to take pull-up contested 3s, but when the ball was swung to him, he would attack the close out for a midrange jumper instead of just shooting the open 3. I think that needs to change.

Agreed - it was the entire team and not just Booker.

Good point regarding KD's shot selection. Something to be worked on over the summer for sure.

[JeremyG]

[Flagrant Fowl]

The thing is, even if Ayton starts playing hard twice as often as he did last season, he still dependent on other guys to set him up on offense. Unless the new coaching staff has lit a fire under him to actually get in the gym and work on expanding his game, I don't see that shortcoming ever really changing.

He'll need to show a pretty significant jump in defensive ability for me to be satisfied with his salary, and I suppose there's a small chance Vogel and his staff can salvage his value if they coach him up on that end. Then again, defense mostly comes down to effort and instincts...

[Superbone]

You know me, I'm as optimistic as they come. However, Ayton wore out his welcome with me last season. He reminds me of my alcoholic ex. Always hoping she could change but alas, she never could. So, now I'm in show me mode. I have optimism in the new coaching staff but it's on Ayton to prove himself now.

[ShelC]

I can't root for guys who don't play hard, think they play hard, get paid like they're better than they are and then sulk that they weren't paid more.

And this isn't 1997 where we're going to throw the ball to him 25 times a game in the post like Ewing, Shaq or Hakeem. He's none of those guys and the game's changed as it is. If he were a power player, I'd be more open to it. But he's never shown a willingness to put his shoulder into a defender and move him. Everything's a hook or a fadeaway. You're not winning like that no matter how much you force feed him the ball.

[Superbone]

I can't root for guys who don't play hard, think they play hard, get paid like they're better than they are and then sulk that they weren't paid more.

And this isn't 1997 where we're going to throw the ball to him 25 times a game in the post like Ewing, Shaq or Hakeem. He's none of those guys and the game's changed as it is. If he were a power player, I'd be more open to it. But he's never shown a willingness to put his shoulder into a defender and move him. Everything's a hook or a fadeaway. You're not winning like that no matter how much you force feed him the ball.

All true. But if he could just defend the paint and rebound the ball, it would go a long way. But yeah, need to see consistent effort and heart.

[ShelC]

But even the rebounding and defense in the paint seems to be contingent on his touches. "We need to keep him engaged" by getting him touches. Guess what, you're the #3 option. So play hard, go get the ball and score your own points. Quit blowing layups, stop bringing the ball down and getting stripped (it's your 5th year of hearing that), and catch the ball when it's passed to you.

BTW, do we think Ayton shows up to camp in shape on his own or will Vogel have to text him a reminder?

[Shabazz]

But even the rebounding and defense in the paint seems to be contingent on his touches. "We need to keep him engaged" by getting him touches. Guess what, you're the #3 option. So play hard, go get the ball and score your own points. Quit blowing layups, stop bringing the ball down and getting stripped (it's your 5th year of hearing that), and catch the ball when it's passed to you.

BTW, do we think Ayton shows up to camp in shape on his own or will Vogel have to text him a reminder?

Well, he's seen how hard Durant works and how hard you have to work to be a superstar in this league. So, no.

[JeremyG]

BTW, do we think Ayton shows up to camp in shape on his own or will Vogel have to text him a reminder?

He had no reminder last camp. Monty did not contact him the entire summer.

[TOO]

You telling me a grown man needs a reminder about how to get ready for his job?